RedDawg#8 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 If we passed on Cam Whitmore due to character question marks, I have a hard time believing we will chase after Ayton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, RedDawg#8 said: If we passed on Cam Whitmore due to character question marks, I have a hard time believing we will chase after Ayton Well, laziness and possible behavior issues are in the 'character' neighborhood but they're not on the same street imho. Maybe that's the difference? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted June 26, 2023 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 21 minutes ago, thecampster said: Ayton is a big, offensive threat we don't have. He is also able to operate outside the lane. If you can believe it, our offense gets miles better with him on the floor because he can step out farther than the 5 feet Clint could. Way more room for Trae/DJM to operate, room for cutters if he's the Center and every bit as terrifying in a lob situation. Offensively, we could easily be tops in the NBA with a little bit of 3 point shooting. Defensively he's physically bigger than Clint. Clint = better help defense against penetration. Ayton = no longer just getting abused by every big bruiser. Ayton's physical size and ability to slide his feet means much less movement on defense, length to cover/recover on pick n roll. He's not perfect and if we acquired him we'd be banking on change of scenery, maturity. Like everyone I have motor questions. But I also know Clint has missed an average of 15 games per season the last 3 years, all of which have affected our win %, playoff positioning. Clint misses on average 18% of games. Ayton hasn't performed better but there are concerns from my end about Clint's long term health, size, post defense, effectiveness against bigger bigs. Appreciate the post but you could write a similarly styled post about Ben Simmons and the upside he could bring to any team -- but then you remember the guy doesn't have it together upstairs and barely likes basketball, and therein lies the problem with Ayton. So while your post is true, it lacks any counterpoints to the primary concerns people have with Ayton (myself included). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thecampster Posted June 26, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, NBASupes said: I last her that Ayton to Atlanta is not happening. What possibly happened that changed it. A $25.4 million exception (which can be split), meaning Atlanta doesn't have to send additional player compensation (but probably would non-guarantees) and could send draft capital instead. Simplifies the trade from Phoenix's end. Phoenix needs that cap relief. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Lol guess I don’t need to write up how I feel about Ayton. make it happen Fields/Korver! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DS5 Posted June 26, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 This whole using the trade exception thing feels like FO just trying to mitigate the obvious negative reaction by fans. I’d be very surprised if they actually use it to improve the team. I call BS until we see at least one tiny bit of evidence that shows Ressler is willing to pay the LT. Every move, other than Bey, has been to get under budget. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 44 minutes ago, thecampster said: Ayton is a big, offensive threat we don't have. He is also able to operate outside the lane. If you can believe it, our offense gets miles better with him on the floor because he can step out farther than the 5 feet Clint could. Way more room for Trae/DJM to operate, room for cutters if he's the Center and every bit as terrifying in a lob situation. Offensively, we could easily be tops in the NBA with a little bit of 3 point shooting. Defensively he's physically bigger than Clint. Clint = better help defense against penetration. Ayton = no longer just getting abused by every big bruiser. Ayton's physical size and ability to slide his feet means much less movement on defense, length to cover/recover on pick n roll. He's not perfect and if we acquired him we'd be banking on change of scenery, maturity. Like everyone I have motor questions. But I also know Clint has missed an average of 15 games per season the last 3 years, all of which have affected our win %, playoff positioning. Clint misses on average 18% of games. Ayton hasn't performed better but there are concerns from my end about Clint's long term health, size, post defense, effectiveness against bigger bigs. This is less a Clint vs Ayton and more of an Ayton has never really been very good issue. Theoretically, he can play away from the basket. He's another mid range guy who doesn't shoot threes and isn't very efficient on the shots he does take. He had big regression this year in his defense as well, and I don't see him as a guy who can guard on the perimeter at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, KB21 said: This is less a Clint vs Ayton and more of an Ayton has never really been very good issue. Theoretically, he can play away from the basket. He's another mid range guy who doesn't shoot threes and isn't very efficient on the shots he does take. He had big regression this year in his defense as well, and I don't see him as a guy who can guard on the perimeter at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 42 minutes ago, KB21 said: This is less a Clint vs Ayton and more of an Ayton has never really been very good issue. Theoretically, he can play away from the basket. He's another mid range guy who doesn't shoot threes and isn't very efficient on the shots he does take. He had big regression this year in his defense as well, and I don't see him as a guy who can guard on the perimeter at all. IMHO, he's overpaid. If he were making $20 million a year he'd be considered a steal and that's the rub. It isn't Ayton = bad, it's Ayton hasn't earned being paid $32 million. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted June 26, 2023 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, thecampster said: IMHO, he's overpaid. If he were making $20 million a year he'd be considered a steal and that's the rub. It isn't Ayton = bad, it's Ayton hasn't earned being paid $32 million. He's not bad but he's mentally weak and immature. Snyder seems to have exceptional people skills and emotional intelligence, but I'd rather him be able to focus on basketball and not babysitting sensitive players with big egos. Ayton is literally the polar opposite of the vague description given for players we're trying to target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member BangHolman Posted June 26, 2023 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 minute ago, JeffS17 said: He's not bad but he's mentally weak and immature. Snyder seems to have exceptional people skills and emotional intelligence, but I'd rather him be able to focus on basketball and not babysitting sensitive players with big egos. Ayton is literally the polar opposite of the vague description given for players we're trying to target. And he's already dealing with molding Trae. Can he handle another one? Can we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, thecampster said: A $25.4 million exception (which can be split), meaning Atlanta doesn't have to send additional player compensation (but probably would non-guarantees) and could send draft capital instead. Simplifies the trade from Phoenix's end. Phoenix needs that cap relief. Ayton makes too much money (33M) to fit in the TPE, so it can't happen. Ditto KAT. We can't trade out an additional $8M in salary to make it work, because TPE doesn't work like that. There are limited options which will make it tough to find a trade partner. We will be hunting for a deal like the deal that netted us Clint Capela.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, txsting said: Ayton makes too much money (33M) to fit in the TPE, so it can't happen. Ditto KAT. We can't trade out an additional $8M in salary to make it work, because TPE doesn't work like that. There are limited options which will make it tough to find a trade partner. We will be hunting for a deal like the deal that netted us Clint Capela.... Furthermore, if it's not obvious to all, the TPE (key word "traded") can only be used in a trade. You can't buy free agents with it. Edited June 26, 2023 by txsting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 So if we are looking for players to trade for making less than 25.4 next year, and limiting this for now to players who are more or less on rebuilding teams, here are some names you can play with: Mike Conley Julius Randle Andrew Wiggins Anfernee Simons RJ Barrett Keldon Johnson Domantas Sabonis Kevin Porter, Jr Jonathan Isaac Jusuf Nurkic Kevin Huerter (lol) Luguentz Dort Kyle Kuzma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucastheThird Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, txsting said: Ayton makes too much money (33M) to fit in the TPE, so it can't happen. Ditto KAT. We can't trade out an additional $8M in salary to make it work, because TPE doesn't work like that. There are limited options which will make it tough to find a trade partner. We will be hunting for a deal like the deal that netted us Clint Capela.... As far as I understand it (willing to admit I'm wrong if I am), this deal can still be added on. Similar to the CP3 deal that saw him basically traded twice in the same deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Of that, I could see taking a swing at Jonathan Isaac, another devalued player who might finally be healthy for this training camp. We could probably bring him on board for picks and still stay under the tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, txsting said: Furthermore, if it's not obvious to all, the TPE (key word "traded") can only be used in a trade. You can't buy free agents with it. sign n trade works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Also Nurkic a possibility if Lillard ends up getting traded and Portland blows it up. Nurkic could probably play alongside OO, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted June 26, 2023 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 I posted JC got traded and then was stuck in a meeting for 2 hours. Silver Lining - At least we didn't have to give up a 1st round pick to dump him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, thecampster said: sign n trade works yeah, correct. Am i right that we can not extend the 25.4 exception by sending out additional salary in a proposed deal? Example, could we send out an $8M contract to bring back a $33M player? I believe you cannot do this, but it would be better for the Hawks if we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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