Popular Post NBASupes Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Trading OO for KAT is taking 3 steps forward then taking 5 steps back 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said: @Diesel The Belkin model sounds ideal. Problem is in the player empowerment era your best young talent will force their way out of town before to construct the right mixture. What I like about that approach is it understands that while every asset is valuable, every asset isn’t going to get you closer to the goal of winning a championship. Talent evaluators can’t (or shouldn’t) get emotionally attached to players (as has been reported that TS did here). You can’t pay everyone and not everyone is not going to contribute to winning at the highest level. This is what got Atlanta into this situation to begin with, overvaluing it’s own middling talent. JC was known to have his limitations. He wasn’t consistent enough to be the second best player on a championship squad. We knew that and paid him anyway. Deandre didn’t even play in our ECF run and brnefitted as being “the missing piece” to a championship core which was really Trae and a group of solid veterans (more on this in a moment) Part of being a championship program is knowing when to part with talent that’s 1, blocking the pathway to playing time by younger talent with higher floors, 2, knowing when to sell high on talent that has plateaued and 3, knowing how to supplement your young talent with veteran support. Someone gave the example of Golden State. Before that team won a championship they sold off productive players like Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, and David Lee to make room for for guys like (Number 1 bust) Andrew Bogut, second rounder Draymond Green, declining Richard Jefferson Kevon Looney, etc. Those guys all played a major role in their championship DNA. The foundations to that team weren’t laid by simply valuing guys they drafted but by knowing who did/didn’t fit. In some cases you had to sell low on guys, or let guys walk, but that’s part of the game because if you don’t have dealmaking flexibility you’re fxcked. When you pay everyone, yes you retain assets but lose roster flexibility and restrict your ability to compete with non-championship talent. But when nobody wants to (or has the ability to) take back their overinflated contract or give you equal or greater value in exchange, you’re stuck with guys (like JC and Hunter) who have some ability but are too inconsistent/major flaws in their game to contribute to winning at the highest level. In our attempts to lock up our own talent for cheap, we overbid ourselves on the RFA market, not once but TWICE. Arguably those two contracts are the biggest albatross on our ability to compete right now. Like, let’s be real. Does anyone see JC or Hunter as starters on a championship level squad? Would they make the starting 5 for any legitimate championship contender? Would you replace anyone in the Nuggets starting five with these guys? What about the Warriors? Or the Bucks? If the answer is no, then stop crying over spilled milk. Which brings me to my last point. This team needs VETERANS. I think Trae and DJ will be fine. But we need guys around them who know and can play their roles at a high level. That’s what makes Bogi and Capela so valuable to this team because they know their roles and play them well. This is why Gallo and Lou were so big on that last ECF team. Even Solomon Hill, as much as he had no business playing, knew his role. If a couple of our young dudes develop and we add the RIGHT veteran piece or two to our rotation (namely on the wings) I think it greatly changes the trajectory of this team very fast. This is going to likely come from that TPE or trade pool. Now Capela is beginning to decline, now is the time to sell on him while he has value that can return us AT THE LEAST an equally talented role player and preferably a positional or asset upgrade. Thats the FO job to find that player(s). Why do we need veterans? We just give them away for peanuts so that Ressler doesn't have to pay the luxury tax. Nothing this move did gave us "flexibility." We want a so-called star or above average player, we have to overpay to get them (the league is laughing at our "management" team over giving away Collins for nothing.) You spend a portion of your cap to get a mid-level player. There's a reason their salary is mid-level. We have done nothing but make fools of ourselves. BTW, Trae is not going to get you a championship either. Once again, Hawks management has royally screwed things up. I guarantee you that Collins, under a real head coach, with a good offensive system, would have played better. But once again, management's short sightedness shines forth in all its glory, and trades him for nothing, before he ever had a chance to work under Quin's system. Anything will be better than alternating one on one with Trae and Murray, while everyone else stands around and watches. Hate to tell you this, but we overpaid for Bogi too. We obviously greatly overpaid for Trae. Based on your comments, you seem to thank management will now play hard ball with our free agents. I look forward to see how that works out with DM. He's going to go with whoever will pay him. Edited June 28, 2023 by Watchman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABH Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, kg01 said: Easy to say this but, in that scenario, who's dribbling and passing? This is what I hope Snyder is working on because prior to now, nobody else on the team can pass well or dribble more than 1 or 2 times and playmake. JJ seems capable but, due to iRobot refusing to develop him, he's lacking experience to be relied upon. So, long story long, I agree with you but it's not as easy as it seems. Both..I hope Snyder working on this..can't win playing iso..team has to move instead of waiting on 3 point line..but that's the way the game seems to be played now..they gotta learn those skills..hope korver is helping out also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABH Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Trading OO for KAT is taking 3 steps forward then taking 5 steps back Yeah sounds like the hawks...lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, ABH said: Yeah sounds like the hawks...lol Trading Vit for KAT would be taking 3 steps forward and 5 steps back. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, ABH said: Both..I hope Snyder working on this..can't win playing iso..team has to move instead of waiting on 3 point line..but that's the way the game seems to be played now..they gotta learn those skills..hope korver is helping out also Eh, one could argue DEN won with Jokic playing iso-ish. Their guys cut tho, which is something we don't do ... well, 'haven't done' - that's where I hope Snyder helps. Perhaps this is where trading certain guys cab help as understanding spacing and cutting may not always be learn-able. Sounds like, overall, we agree. I just bristle at the notion that Trae/Murray are out there going rough and playing selfish ball. I think that's what they've been asked to do out of necessity. I mean, I loved Collins but that dudes handle made Jaylen Brown's look like Curly Neal out there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Sothron Posted June 28, 2023 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 The names I'm hearing for a potential KAT deal from us are Hunter, OO and Bey. It sounds like the TPE would be used as well in a possible three team deal to move Capela as well. The more teams get involved the less likely a trade is to happen. I'm just passing along what I am hearing. The team wants to keep DJM. This isn't lip service. They really do believe he has "Hawks DNA" (this should already be a meme frankly) and he's the kind of high character/in love with the game type player the team wants. Another reason on a personal level ie not from insider just my two cents that I can't see us trading for Ayton. He has all the tools to be great but there seems to be character/maturity issues there. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KB21 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Dejounte didn't just suddenly go from an All NBA defender to being a sub average defender with Atlanta in one season. There is something else at play, and I definitely believe it is more related to coaching than player ability. I fully expect Dejounte to be what he was in San Antonio as a defender under Quin Snyder. Nate was a great defensive player when he played, but he was not defensive guru as a coach. His snail paced offense and defensive style did more to hurt the Hawks players than help. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, AHF said: Happy to do a bet: @Diesel If John Collins is an All-Star or Utah secures 3 All-Star spots, you win. If John Collins is not an All-Star and Utah doesn't secure 3 All-Star spots, I win. Winner gets to control the other's avatar after the All-Star game for three weeks (starting when the other person installs the new avatar). I could see them(media/coaches, and some fans) possibly giving him some sympathy votes just to make Trae look bad.. lol They hate that dude... Edited June 28, 2023 by terrell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KB21 Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 KAT doesn't have the best reputation as a worker or a guy who is humble, so I'm not understanding the Hawks looking at him when they have focused on getting guys with "Hawks DNA". 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Sothron Posted June 28, 2023 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Other news: hawks are trying to add the third star to the team to go WITH Trae and DJM. So DJM is, again, not going anywhere. You've heard most of the names already. Team wants to move DH and Capela and use the TPE aggressively to try and net a third star on the team. 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sothron said: Other news: hawks are trying to add the third star to the team to go WITH Trae and DJM. So DJM is, again, not going anywhere. You've heard most of the names already. Team wants to move DH and Capela and use the TPE aggressively to try and net a third star on the team. You so silly...They ain't gonna get back into luxury tax territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Final_quest Posted June 28, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sothron said: Other news: hawks are trying to add the third star to the team to go WITH Trae and DJM. So DJM is, again, not going anywhere. You've heard most of the names already. Team wants to move DH and Capela and use the TPE aggressively to try and net a third star on the team. Love it. This is the way. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimaskway23 Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Why can't I quote anybody? This KAT deal is what we need 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hylndr11 Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 its def gonna be hawks university if were able to pull off towns, well need every dollar for that extension he has coming up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, Sothron said: The names I'm hearing for a potential KAT deal from us are Hunter, OO and Bey. It sounds like the TPE would be used as well in a possible three team deal to move Capela as well. The more teams get involved the less likely a trade is to happen. I'm just passing along what I am hearing. The team wants to keep DJM. This isn't lip service. They really do believe he has "Hawks DNA" (this should already be a meme frankly) and he's the kind of high character/in love with the game type player the team wants. Another reason on a personal level ie not from insider just my two cents that I can't see us trading for Ayton. He has all the tools to be great but there seems to be character/maturity issues there. Trading OO for KAT makes no sense. Let alone trading both OO and Clint and running KAT at the 5. A defense of Trae and KAT would be 30th in the league. They would win absolutely nothing 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABH Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Watchman said: You so silly...They ain't gonna get back into luxury tax territory. They never will !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABH Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Final_quest said: Love it. This is the way. Sounds like the mandalorian way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txsting Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 14 hours ago, kg01 said: Vintage Hawks FOfficing. Literally everybody knows you're gonna waive the dude so why in the actual ufck would anyone with a brain trade you anything for him. Classic Hawks, baybee. Smh sm-muthafkng-H! bro we needed a salary in that low-mid range that could facilitate certain deals. We have a lot of big salaries and lot of little ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted June 28, 2023 Author Moderators Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said: Why can't I quote anybody? Take a read through this pinned thread and change the theme you are using for the site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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