2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

There was a pretty mixed opinion on the Murray trade with some people feeling like we overpaid to get him and others thinking it was a great idea.  You were definitely not alone in expressing reservations about the trade.  For both supporters and detractors, I would say most of us had things wrong about how that would shake out.  By way of example, I'll raise my hand and say I expected him to deliver more defensively but that he significantly outperformed what I feared we might get from him in terms of his perimeter shooting and scoring efficiency.

I did not like the price we paid but I thought he would fit in with Trae a lot better than he did. Didn't think he would be such a defensive liability at the 2 spot. 

[Spud2nique]

I feel like Mickey Abbott when I return to squawk  

Edited May 17 by Spud2nique

[KB21]

This guy may end up my #3 guy before it is all said and done:

 

[RedDawg#8]

23 minutes ago, KB21 said:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think Allen makes less sense for them. The whole reason they were trying to pry OO away from us was to get a center next to Zion who wouldn’t clog up the lane like JV.

Other than that, they too seem like great trade partners. We probably won’t move aggressively enough to pull the trigger for a big trade.

[NBASupes]

51 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Because we wouldn't be drafting him for what he is today, we would be drafting him to develop him into a significantly better player than he is today.  So sure, you can make the comparison of his current game to players that have years of NBA experience, but that is not a relevant comparison.

There is no promise of that. To assume it like it's guarantee is doing him a disservice. I literally did the same with Cam Reddish and it was doing him a disservice. 

Wishful thinking logic is dangerous because it's not promised

Edited May 17 by NBASupes

[AHF]

Just now, NBASupes said:

There is no promise of that. To assume it like it'd guarantee isn't doing him a disservice. I literally did the same with Cam Reddish and it was doing him a disservice. 

Wishful thinking logic is dangerous because it's not promised

Nothing is promised but I do think projection is a necessary part of draft evaluation especially for raw teenagers.  Some guys don't develop like Cam Reddish or Kwame Brown or Darko Milicic.  Some guys do develop like Giannis or Chauncey Billups or Jaylen Brown.

The degree of development required needs to be factored in but the risk doesn't make it the wrong approach.  Even older prospects develop over time and identifying which players have the mindset and tools to develop beyond where they are today is an essential part of the draft process.

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

And yet Snyder wouldn't start him last year at any time all season when CC was available.  I'd say either your view doesn't align with that of the coaching staff or that Snyder screwed up badly last season by starting CC over a player he knew was better by far.  It really has to be one or the other because CC absolutely was prioritized over OO by Quin.

I agree with @KB21 here and think the reason Snyder started Capela is because Capela is unplayable without Trae on the court.  His fit and impact is just significantly better with Trae

[marco102]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with @KB21 here and think the reason Snyder started Capela is because Capela is unplayable without Trae on the court.  His fit and impact is just significantly better with Trae

Capela played fine down the stretch when Trae was out though.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with @KB21 here and think the reason Snyder started Capela is because Capela is unplayable without Trae on the court.  His fit and impact is just significantly better with Trae

That statement is wrong. He was superior this year with Murray than Trae. 

The metrics back that. That said, he wasn't even half way healthy till the 2nd half of the season so it's unfair to truly judge

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Capela played fine down the stretch when Trae was out though.

Yeah, he wasn't bad, I just think he's better with Trae.  I also think Trae really likes Capela and they have good chemistry -- more of a lob threat than OO.  I still want to move off him because he's pretty washed now, but I'm guessing that's largely why he started.  OO did get more minutes last season at like ~26 per game, up from 23 the season prior.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Nothing is promised but I do think projection is a necessary part of draft evaluation especially for raw teenagers.  Some guys don't develop like Cam Reddish or Kwame Brown or Darko Milicic.  Some guys do develop like Giannis or Chauncey Billups or Jaylen Brown.

The degree of development required needs to be factored in but the risk doesn't make it the wrong approach.  Even older prospects develop over time and identifying which players have the mindset and tools to develop beyond where they are today is an essential part of the draft process.

There is the blind assumption to expect the best of the prospects some posters like and expect the worse on prospects they don't like. There is no true baseline on here. 

 

If i like Sarr, KG and JJJ.

That's not even a real baseline, that's just wishful thinking. That's like my Cam could be Klay Thompson with better ability to defend on the perimeter. Boy, he never came close to developing a movement skill. He still stays around the perimeter waiting for the ball and his 3 ball is still as inconsistent as ever 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, he wasn't bad, I just think he's better with Trae.  I also think Trae really likes Capela and they have good chemistry -- more of a lob threat than OO.  I still want to move off him because he's pretty washed now, but I'm guessing that's largely why he started.  OO did get more minutes last season at like ~26 per game, up from 23 the season prior.

OO is more of a lob threat, OO is just a dullard on the PnR whereas CC has a good feel for the roll and even washed and missing screens like crazy, he's still miles better at it than OO.

[KB21]

Clint

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, he wasn't bad, I just think he's better with Trae.  I also think Trae really likes Capela and they have good chemistry.  I still want to move off him because he's pretty washed now, but I'm guessing that's largely why he started.  OO did get more minutes last season at like ~26 per game, up from 23 the season prior.

This doesn't add up to me.  If OO was better on both ends than Capela in the minds of the coaches, he should have been playing more than CC full stop.  Your logic would explain why Capela might still be starting even though he was playing only 20 mpg in order to ensure he played his minutes with Trae but then you would also have OO playing 32 mpg (aka the number of minutes that Saddiq Bey played).  

It seems obvious that Snyder wasn't ready to turn things over to OO and continued to rely on CC as at least his equal which would be a big mistake if OO was indeed viewed by the coaches as significantly better.  If you have a player who is significantly better on both sides of the ball, they should be playing more than the inferior player.  This was exactly what I expected to see this season.  It didn't happen even after JJ was firmly entrenched as a starter (I note that because of how well JJ and OO have played together).

[AHF]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Clint

 

Snyder 2023-24:  "That guy remains my best option for the most minutes and starting spot at center."

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That statement is wrong. He was superior this year with Murray than Trae. 

The metrics back that. That said, he wasn't even half way healthy till the 2nd half of the season so it's unfair to truly judge

Not what I saw, but if you want to rely on 2 man lineup stats, that's fine. I personally don't take too much away from those because pretty much all our lineups were better than our starters this year. The real common denominator when looking at what lineups performed the best is Bogi.  He was by far our most impactful player last season

[AHF]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

Not what I saw, but if you want to rely on 2 man lineup stats, that's fine. I personally don't take too much away from those because pretty much all our lineups were better than our starters this year. The real common denominator when looking at what lineups performed the best is Bogi.  He was by far our most impactful player last season

Bogi or not Trae and DJM.  PotAto, potahto.

[KB21]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

OO is more of a lob threat, OO is just a dullard on the PnR whereas CC has a good feel for the roll and even washed and missing screens like crazy, he's still miles better at it than OO.

[Insult removed] OO is a much better finisher on the PNR than Clint.  He also has the PNP ability that Clint doesn't have.  Quin also uses him to set flare screens, which he doesn't do with Clint.  

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

If OO was better on both ends than Capela in the minds of the coaches, he should have been playing more than CC full stop.

It seems obvious that Snyder wasn't ready to turn things over to OO and continued to rely on CC as at least his equal which would be a big mistake if OO was indeed viewed by the coaches as significantly better.  If you have a player who is significantly better on both sides of the ball, they should be playing more than the inferior player.  This was exactly what I expected to see this season.  It didn't happen even after JJ was firmly entrenched as a starter (I note that because of how well JJ and OO have played together).

I don't view things in the same black/white lens as you so I think we just disagree on this one

[marco102]