John Collins Traded - Fare thee well!

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Heh, and to be clear, I wasn't taking a shot at your moms @Atlantaholic.  I meant it figuratively.   Although im sure shes got a wicked jumpshot. 

Honestly the only thing I’m holding out for as of right now is that fact that I kept hearing there were 2 mandates per Woj.

1. Get out of the luxury 

Then JC happens.

 

2. Landry was told to IMPROVE

I feel like even if he doesn’t “improve” per se, he better come out even with FA and other trades otherwise squawk , the ATL media, radio will eat him alive. I have to think Landry, Korver and Ressler’s son have A PLAN. I mean, this is a pro franchise, comon. We better be getting a borderline all star ️ or already established proven vet or something to replace JC. 
 

 

 

[Mikey]

17 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Yes. One source said Lauri and one FRP, another said Lauri and two FRP. This was BEFORE last season when the general feeling was Lauri was a bad contract and needed sweeteners to take it off the Jazz hands.

I’m gonna call cap on this lol. Lauri had a resurgence in Cleveland. Was he what he is now absolutely not but the contract wasn’t viewed badly at all. The hawks had a deal on the table and ownership vetoed it like they did with many of schlenks moves and that’s why he is gone. He was fired for having drastically different views then the two idiots running the show at the time and now we are in a much more aligned structure where he is less hands on 

[Jdawgflow]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Yes. One source said Lauri and one FRP, another said Lauri and two FRP. This was BEFORE last season when the general feeling was Lauri was a bad contract and needed sweeteners to take it off the Jazz hands.

That is just embarrassing.  It is hard to be a Hawks fan most of the time.  Kind of like being a Falcons fan.  At least we have the Braves.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think about the Nique trade and realize - ALL WILL BE WELL!  Namaste! 

How long did it take all to be well after Nique?

[KB21]

8 hours ago, Phunkabilly said:

He was thriving under Lloyd.  You can make the argument that Nate had something to do with his decline, but I think the finger injury and Capela's presence squeezing him out of the PnR game probably had more to do with it.

He was thriving early on because of the work Bud’s staff put into him as a rookie.  That jumper is from the work he did with Ben Sullivan, one of the best shooting coaches in the NBA.  This is a player that came into the league as nothing but a rim runner who didn’t shoot anything outside of 5 feet.  He was also a negative defender in college. 

[Gray Mule]

6 hours ago, Jdawgflow said:

That is just embarrassing.  It is hard to be a Hawks fan most of the time.  Kind of like being a Falcons fan.  At least we have the Braves.

I'm a Braves fan and a Falcon's fan.  Braves are winning right now.  Falcons will be out of this off season and will be coming out swinging this fall.  They don't have a boatload of dead payroll now.

The Atlanta Hawks have had much the same problem as the Falcons.  Dead payroll money.  But, in the  Hawks, their problem is having too many players with a contract that is larger than the benefit that they bring.  They have had a championship sized payroll and a .500 team.

[swanlee]

I got mixed feelings about this one that is for sure. I love Collins as a leader on the team and think he did whatever the team asked of him, however his contract was to big and his finger injury killed his progression as a shooter and he disappeared way to much during games to justify his contract.

It is unfortunate it came to this but also he was rumored to be traded every week so a part of me is glad those constant rumors will be gone now.

I wish he did not injure his finger and kept progressing and lived up to his pay on the court but honestly the last 2 years he did not.

I hop the best for him, I'm not mad at the front office cause that was a 2 way street, we paid him to much at the same time his game declined mostly due to his finger injury. No one is at fault but it's probably best for him and the team to part ways. Would have been nice to get something more for him but with his contract their was no market for him to get a return. I do hope we use this new cap space for SOMETHING that improves the team that would lessen the sting a bit.

Good luck to you John you are a great person and I hope your game improves over the years.

[Phunkabilly]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

He was thriving early on because of the work Bud’s staff put into him as a rookie.  That jumper is from the work he did with Ben Sullivan, one of the best shooting coaches in the NBA.  This is a player that came into the league as nothing but a rim runner who didn’t shoot anything outside of 5 feet.  He was also a negative defender in college. 

No argument from me that Bud and his staff had a positive influence on JC's development early on.  My response had more to do with the finger injury and Cap's presence having more of an influence on his reduced production than the coaching changes.  Impossible to prove either way of course... just my opinion.

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

No argument from me that Bud and his staff had a positive influence on JC's development early on.  My response had more to do with the finger injury and Cap's presence having more of an influence on his reduced production than the coaching changes.  Impossible to prove either way of course... just my opinion.

I feel like JC clearly worked and added new areas of improvement every year.  There is no doubt in my mind that playing with CC hugely hit his offensive numbers (both scoring and rebounding) and his finger really limited him (undercutting some areas where his improvements had allowed him to be more effective within the limitations that playing with CC imposed on him).  Those two things combined in a very bad way last year.

[KB21]

28 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

No argument from me that Bud and his staff had a positive influence on JC's development early on.  My response had more to do with the finger injury and Cap's presence having more of an influence on his reduced production than the coaching changes.  Impossible to prove either way of course... just my opinion.

I don't disagree with the idea that adding Capela hurt Collins's production.  In fact, I questioned the fit when the move was made.  With that said, I do believe that had Collins been able to play his first 5-6 years under Budenholzer or someone from that staff that would have kept the same emphasis on player development, there are some details that have been missed in his development that would have been addressed.  There is no doubt in my mind that had Collins been able to play his entirety under Bud or one of his assistants (Jenkins, Ham, Atkinson, Snyder, Lee), that we aren't trading him for an empty coke can and some bottle tops.  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't disagree with the idea that adding Capela hurt Collins's production.  In fact, I questioned the fit when the move was made.  With that said, I do believe that had Collins been able to play his first 5-6 years under Budenholzer or someone from that staff that would have kept the same emphasis on player development, there are some details that have been missed in his development that would have been addressed.  There is no doubt in my mind that had Collins been able to play his entirety under Bud or one of his assistants (Jenkins, Ham, Atkinson, Snyder, Lee), that we aren't trading him for an empty coke can and some bottle tops.  

You may well be right but Bud walked out that door on his own so not much we could have done about that.  Bud is a very good coach who should have fought to keep Ferry and maybe he would have been here much longer.  (Bud should never be making personnel decisions based on the Budcox years).

[Watchman]

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

Yes.  It can.

[shakes]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

Let me explain this to you in a way that you'll be able to understand.

 

The benefit of the JC trade exemption is two fold.   #1 on the court it does nothing for us.  #2 off the court it allows the Resslers to upgrade their vacation home in Aspen.

[Watchman]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yes.  It can.

Thanks for the info.

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

Let me explain this to you in a way that you'll be able to understand.

 

The benefit of the JC trade exemption is two fold.   #1 on the court it does nothing for us.  #2 off the court it allows the Resslers to upgrade their vacation home in Aspen.

Well, we all should be thrilled for the Resslers, I suppose.  The wealthy can't be expected to live without multi-home improvements.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Help request from a "casual."

I'm trying to figure out what the benefit of JC's trade exemption (exception?) is.  Good teams will only want to dump overpaid  players.  Desperate teams might give away a good player, but in all likelihood they are overpaid also.  Either scenario puts us in the same boat that we were in.  Can the trade exemption (or exception) be divided among multiple mid range salary players?  Otherwise, I fail to see what all the excitement is about, but what can I say?  After all, I'm only a casual.

Its all hype.  Russler's only goal was to get under the luxury tax.

With the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers among the teams contributing to historically high tax redistribution for the non-taxpaying teams this season — and most likely next season as well — the Hawks’ owners stand to make upwards of $30 million each season by finishing below the luxury tax threshold once the league’s financials are finalized. And thus, reports of a “mandate” coming from the highest levels of the organization to put themselves in position to reap the financial rewards emerged from reputable sources. Ultimately, it reeks of cynical reasoning — should it prove to be correct — for an organizational masthead that claims to want nothing more than to win the biggest prize of all.

In short, all characterizations of this trade as a salary dump are completely on target. The Hawks netted almost nothing but pure luxury tax breathing room in return, even putting aside the more competitively prohibitive new tax aprons introduced by the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Neither the persistent penny-pinching, like the actions of the Huerter and Collins trade sagas, nor short term bandaging will get Atlanta to a place of continual contention. And reports continue to swirl about who is truly calling the shots at the top of the organization. Monday was a sober reality check for many about the business of running an NBA franchise — one where winning and profitability can often be at odds.

The Hawks will try to pick up the pieces by elevating young players like Bey and Johnson into greater roles. And the TPE and luxury tax breathing room give the Hawks some flexibility to move forward and make moves. But as long as dollars ultimately rule the day, it will be hard to have complete faith in the team’s ability to reach the mountaintop.

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its all hype.  Russler's only goal was to get under the luxury tax.

With the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers among the teams contributing to historically high tax redistribution for the non-taxpaying teams this season — and most likely next season as well — the Hawks’ owners stand to make upwards of $30 million each season by finishing below the luxury tax threshold once the league’s financials are finalized. And thus, reports of a “mandate” coming from the highest levels of the organization to put themselves in position to reap the financial rewards emerged from reputable sources. Ultimately, it reeks of cynical reasoning — should it prove to be correct — for an organizational masthead that claims to want nothing more than to win the biggest prize of all.

In short, all characterizations of this trade as a salary dump are completely on target. The Hawks netted almost nothing but pure luxury tax breathing room in return, even putting aside the more competitively prohibitive new tax aprons introduced by the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Neither the persistent penny-pinching, like the actions of the Huerter and Collins trade sagas, nor short term bandaging will get Atlanta to a place of continual contention. And reports continue to swirl about who is truly calling the shots at the top of the organization. Monday was a sober reality check for many about the business of running an NBA franchise — one where winning and profitability can often be at odds.

The Hawks will try to pick up the pieces by elevating young players like Bey and Johnson into greater roles. And the TPE and luxury tax breathing room give the Hawks some flexibility to move forward and make moves. But as long as dollars ultimately rule the day, it will be hard to have complete faith in the team’s ability to reach the mountaintop.

And the quotes coming out of the front office are just laughable.

From Landry - "i have the ability to go into the tax" - not authority?  smh

Management has given Landry the ok to go into the tax "if it's necessary to improve the team" 

 IF?  are you kidding me. 

[Watchman]

17 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its all hype.  Russler's only goal was to get under the luxury tax.

With the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers among the teams contributing to historically high tax redistribution for the non-taxpaying teams this season — and most likely next season as well — the Hawks’ owners stand to make upwards of $30 million each season by finishing below the luxury tax threshold once the league’s financials are finalized. And thus, reports of a “mandate” coming from the highest levels of the organization to put themselves in position to reap the financial rewards emerged from reputable sources. Ultimately, it reeks of cynical reasoning — should it prove to be correct — for an organizational masthead that claims to want nothing more than to win the biggest prize of all.

In short, all characterizations of this trade as a salary dump are completely on target. The Hawks netted almost nothing but pure luxury tax breathing room in return, even putting aside the more competitively prohibitive new tax aprons introduced by the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Neither the persistent penny-pinching, like the actions of the Huerter and Collins trade sagas, nor short term bandaging will get Atlanta to a place of continual contention. And reports continue to swirl about who is truly calling the shots at the top of the organization. Monday was a sober reality check for many about the business of running an NBA franchise — one where winning and profitability can often be at odds.

The Hawks will try to pick up the pieces by elevating young players like Bey and Johnson into greater roles. And the TPE and luxury tax breathing room give the Hawks some flexibility to move forward and make moves. But as long as dollars ultimately rule the day, it will be hard to have complete faith in the team’s ability to reach the mountaintop.

And if DJM, Bey, OO and JJ are deemed worthy, we will overpay them and be worse off than we were before.

[Hawkmoor]

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its all hype.  Russler's only goal was to get under the luxury tax.

With the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers among the teams contributing to historically high tax redistribution for the non-taxpaying teams this season — and most likely next season as well — the Hawks’ owners stand to make upwards of $30 million each season by finishing below the luxury tax threshold once the league’s financials are finalized. And thus, reports of a “mandate” coming from the highest levels of the organization to put themselves in position to reap the financial rewards emerged from reputable sources. Ultimately, it reeks of cynical reasoning — should it prove to be correct — for an organizational masthead that claims to want nothing more than to win the biggest prize of all.

In short, all characterizations of this trade as a salary dump are completely on target. The Hawks netted almost nothing but pure luxury tax breathing room in return, even putting aside the more competitively prohibitive new tax aprons introduced by the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Neither the persistent penny-pinching, like the actions of the Huerter and Collins trade sagas, nor short term bandaging will get Atlanta to a place of continual contention. And reports continue to swirl about who is truly calling the shots at the top of the organization. Monday was a sober reality check for many about the business of running an NBA franchise — one where winning and profitability can often be at odds.

The Hawks will try to pick up the pieces by elevating young players like Bey and Johnson into greater roles. And the TPE and luxury tax breathing room give the Hawks some flexibility to move forward and make moves. But as long as dollars ultimately rule the day, it will be hard to have complete faith in the team’s ability to reach the mountaintop.

I remember getting criticized on this forum way back when Ressler bought the team that the mission statement was for him and Grant Hill to flip the franchise for their investors because thats what they do.  Thats what private equity does.  They flip companies for profit for their investors.  Ressler and Hill are doing a fantastic job in that area. Going into the luxury tax is counter to that.  Making profit is the priority.  Thats business.  Yall can always get new uniforms every other season, lmao.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Hawkmoor