2023-24 NBA Regular Season: Notes/Tidbits/Updates etc.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

22 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

And that's proof that if we can get things figured out here, we have plenty of time to turn this around.

Whatever we do between now and the end of the season, the Hawks need to be peaking as a team going into the postseason.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No Embiid tomorrow night.  ( knee soreness )

[JeffS17]

22 hours ago, Diesel said:

John Collins last 5..

 

Forget the numbers for a minute.  They have beaten Milwaukee, Philly, and Dallas...  They have played 5 games in 7 days.   JC's lowest shooting percentage in this time is 53%.  The memory of Rudy Gay doesn't make up for the loss of JC. 

 

Happy for JC!  Hope he continues to ball out and find a home that wants him

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Happy for JC!  Hope he continues to ball out and find a home that wants him

Wha??  Jazz fans want Collins gone as bad as some of us did. 

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Wha??  Jazz fans want Collins gone as bad as some of us did. 

Yeah, that's why I hope he finds a home that wants him.

[RedDawg#8]

JC is not a bad player or person. I wish people could separate a bad contract (not terrible, just bad) from their opinion of him. You don’t have to root against the guy just to feel better about JJ or the Hawks for that matter. He helped us win a lot of games and since the ECF season our record with him healthy and in the lineup vs without him stands up against many other house favorites around here.

In the same breath, there doesn’t have to be an ounce of regret just to say nice things about the guy. We moved on, but for some reason our side are the ones acting like the bitter exes in the breakup.

 

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

And that's proof that if we can get things figured out here, we have plenty of time to turn this around.

Whatever we do between now and the end of the season, the Hawks need to be peaking as a team going into the postseason.

Whoever their coach is figured out...

Colin Sexton can't be your lead guard &  JC can play Center better than PF. 

Our problem with JC is that we were too afraid to play him as a 5.   We had CC and we had OO.  In all truth, JC is bigger and stronger than OO.  OO blocks shots but sizewise, he's a problem.  He's our Paul Reed minus the muscle.  Reed may be bigger.  OO has the size of a PF but the game of a 5.   I know everybody loves OO but the truth is that he's the biggest mismatch we have on the floor.  He's going to have to do a lot to make himself good in one position or the other. 

 

 

 

[macdaddy]

31 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Whoever their coach is figured out...

Colin Sexton can't be your lead guard &  JC can play Center better than PF. 

Our problem with JC is that we were too afraid to play him as a 5.   We had CC and we had OO.  In all truth, JC is bigger and stronger than OO.  OO blocks shots but sizewise, he's a problem.  He's our Paul Reed minus the muscle.  Reed may be bigger.  OO has the size of a PF but the game of a 5.   I know everybody loves OO but the truth is that he's the biggest mismatch we have on the floor.  He's going to have to do a lot to make himself good in one position or the other. 

 

 

 

Yep.  2019 trae/kev/cam/hunter/JC was our best lineup.   

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

 I know everybody loves OO but the truth is that he's the biggest mismatch we have on the floor.  He's going to have to do a lot to make himself good in one position or the other. 

Agreed. I'm waiting for him to take the next step. If nothing else, Play tougher, increase his activity and focus. I was hoping he'd be pushing for at least 27 mpg.

[Final_quest]

10 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

JC is not a bad player or person. I wish people could separate a bad contract (not terrible, just bad) from their opinion of him. You don’t have to root against the guy just to feel better about JJ or the Hawks for that matter. He helped us win a lot of games and since the ECF season our record with him healthy and in the lineup vs without him stands up against many other house favorites around here.

In the same breath, there doesn’t have to be an ounce of regret just to say nice things about the guy. We moved on, but for some reason our side are the ones acting like the bitter exes in the breakup.

 

I started out being mostly complimentary towards JC, and always try to cheer for success of others.  Sometimes people here need to be reminded that JC contract hurt our franchise because there is a chorus of people still upset that we "gave him away for nothing!"  

[JeffS17]

47 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Agreed. I'm waiting for him to take the next step. If nothing else, Play tougher, increase his activity and focus. I was hoping he'd be pushing for at least 27 mpg.

Also agree with both of you and I've always been really high on OO.  I thought he'd be further along by now, but he seems to have regressed a bit this season(?)

Tough to say as an outsider but I feel like he plays best when he's instinctual and isn't overthinking things on defense.  That might be a product of learning the new defensive schemes but I don't know... he's been a noticeably better FT shooter and has sort of added range to his shot but not much else has improved, and we need him to be a beast on defense more than anything.

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I started out being mostly complimentary towards JC, and always try to cheer for success of others.  Sometimes people here need to be reminded that JC contract hurt our franchise because there is a chorus of people still upset that we "gave him away for nothing!"  

The contract has nothing to do with what happens on the court.   What happens on the court overrides the contract.   Look now.  We are under the tax and we're losing left and right and we're about to get rid of another contract to try to fix what is on the court.   So let's review.  Travis messed up by giving JC the extension.   Travis messed up drafting Dre and Cam.  The AJ &  OO drafts are still being evaluated.   We had to resign Dre.   We cut ties with Kev to save money.   We fired LP and hired Nate who didn't care about player development.  To save a lot of money, we traded away JC. 

Now, our middle is sawft.  Now, our rebounding is bad.   Now, we're losing games that we should win. 

WHILE...

Even though Jazz fans hate JC because of his contract, they are winning.   Maybe they can learn a lesson from us??  Contracts mean less than the product on the floor. 

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

we need him to be a beast on defense more than anything.

yes!  sometimes the effort doesn't seem there.  He's not aggressive enough especially guarding on the perimeter.  I know that's hard for bigs but you can't just put your hand up.   Of course that's a whole team issue. 

[Final_quest]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

The contract has nothing to do with what happens on the court.   What happens on the court overrides the contract.   Look now.  We are under the tax and we're losing left and right and we're about to get rid of another contract to try to fix what is on the court.   So let's review.  Travis messed up by giving JC the extension.   Travis messed up drafting Dre and Cam.  The AJ &  OO drafts are still being evaluated.   We had to resign Dre.   We cut ties with Kev to save money.   We fired LP and hired Nate who didn't care about player development.  To save a lot of money, we traded away JC. 

Now, our middle is sawft.  Now, our rebounding is bad.   Now, we're losing games that we should win. 

WHILE...

Even though Jazz fans hate JC because of his contract, they are winning.   Maybe they can learn a lesson from us??  Contracts mean less than the product on the floor. 

 

I don't believe JC helped us much on the court.  He just helped us more than our current backup.  I always wanted to trade him for guys like Sabonis, and some of the same people insisting we need Trae and 7 role players getting paid $14-27M/yr in order to win were saying JC is better than guys like Sabonis. 

I'm not listening to you guys. You can't win without the right top level talent and that isn't JC.   

Also, contracts matter.  Not really gonna make that case for people who don't want to acknowledge that reality.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Whoever their coach is figured out...

Colin Sexton can't be your lead guard &  JC can play Center better than PF. 

Our problem with JC is that we were too afraid to play him as a 5.   We had CC and we had OO.  In all truth, JC is bigger and stronger than OO.  OO blocks shots but sizewise, he's a problem.  He's our Paul Reed minus the muscle.  Reed may be bigger.  OO has the size of a PF but the game of a 5.   I know everybody loves OO but the truth is that he's the biggest mismatch we have on the floor.  He's going to have to do a lot to make himself good in one position or the other. 

 

 

 

 

Offensively he was fine at the 5.  It was defensively that was the problem.

So that goes to the other thing . . . maybe JC would've had more success on the floor if Okongwu started at the 5 instead of Capela.  That way OO has defensive responsibilities at the 5, while Collins held down the 4 spot.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I don't believe JC helped us much on the court.  He just helped us more than our current backup.  I always wanted to trade him for guys like Sabonis, and some of the same people insisting we need Trae and 7 role players getting paid $14-27M/yr in order to win were saying JC is better than guys like Sabonis. 

I'm not listening to you guys. You can't win without the right top level talent and that isn't JC.   

Also, contracts matter.  Not really gonna make that case for people who don't want to acknowledge that reality.  

This is just logically inconsistent.  If someone thought JC was better than Sabonis, they didn't think he was a role player and thus didn't think Trae could win with a bunch of overpaid role players.  

Talent matters when the game tips not contracts.  If managing contracts gets you better talent then that is why you do it.  If managing contracts ends up with a less talented team then that can be a prudent financial decision but it is not one you'd make if winning games that season was the priority.  Even GMs with authority to spend into the tax need to maximize the value for their dollars to make the best team but championship teams are tax payers who frequently overpay a few players to end up with the most competitive team they can.  (Think of KCP signing for $14M in Denver this year despite being clearly a role player and Aaron Gordon making over $22M despite being similar to JC in production.)

The unfortunate reality is that we have not managed our cap to optimize for talent in any way.  We've both overpaid players unnecessarily and sacrificed talent to stay under that tax line.  Doing both of those in combination will not win you games or end up with the best product.

[Final_quest]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

This is just logically inconsistent.  If someone thought JC was better than Sabonis, they didn't think he was a role player and thus didn't think Trae could win with a bunch of overpaid role players.  

Talent matters when the game tips not contracts.  If managing contracts gets you better talent then that is why you do it.  If managing contracts ends up with a less talented team then that can be a prudent financial decision but it is not one you'd make if winning games that season was the priority.  Even GMs with authority to spend into the tax need to maximize the value for their dollars to make the best team but championship teams are tax payers who frequently overpay a few players to end up with the most competitive team they can.  (Think of KCP signing for $14M in Denver this year despite being clearly a role player and Aaron Gordon making over $22M despite being similar to JC in production.)

The unfortunate reality is that we have not managed our cap to optimize for talent in any way.  We've both overpaid players unnecessarily and sacrificed talent to stay under that tax line.  Doing both of those in combination will not win you games or end up with the best product.

That's been our problem, paying role players too much money.  Then you have to trade away a guy you hoped would be on Sabonis' level for a 2nd round pick.  We had good offers for JC according to rumors but Ownership and/or FO turned them down.  

Nothing wrong with paying a couple role players $14M+, but you can't contend if you ONLY have one high impact player AND be capped out beyond the luxury tax paying everyone else on your roster salaries like that.  We gave it a shot with Murray and JC as the other "stars".  Our problem has been fit and not getting the impact we need from our big contract players apart from Trae. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just for you @Spud2nique

 

 

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Just for you @Spud2nique

 

 

Curry should be grateful for how long of a run he was able to get in from 2014-2022.  Not many teams have contending longevity that's nearly a decade... of course, a lot of that is due to Curry himself, but he had an ownership group that was spending massively, and the Warriors were able to restock quality role players around him for years.  Tough seeing dudes that used to dominate decline, like him and Lebron, but that's the game.  I can't see the Warriors making another significant playoff run with that squad, and those pieces aren't trading for any material upgrades.

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Just for you @Spud2nique

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Tough seeing dudes that used to dominate decline, like him

 

20 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

and those pieces aren't trading for any material upgrades.

 

(I’m a broken record of ’s)