Hawks looking to trade

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Yeah true, that's why the straight up offensive SLOUCH Haliburton actually takes less catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9 vs 2)

Or what about Luka? He sucks at offense right? He has 2.1 catch and shoot attempts per game. 

Your boy Devin Booker who you covet for offense is taking LESS catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9)

 

 Ball dominant guards don't play off ball. It's not just Trae, it's all of them. The guys you seeing taking a bunch of CNS are the ones that aren't elite creators like Derek White, Dennis Schröder, Coby White, etc. 

Thanks for this.  This is another one of those things where Trae is graded completely different than other guys of his ilk. 

[SalvorMallow]

13 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Thanks for this.  This is another one of those things where Trae is graded completely different than other guys of his ilk. 

Yeah I agree dude it's ridiculous how of everything wrong with this team people are criticizing Trae's offense. He creates 60ppg by himself and people think "if only he scored 3 more ppg off catch and shoot, we'd truly be elite" (this would put him just shy of top 10 for all guards playing 30 min or more). 

And then you have the guys like Shai who take half as many CNS as Trae that people act like walk on water. 

 

Quit talking out of both sides of ur mouth! 

[bird_dirt]

23 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Yeah true, that's why the straight up offensive SLOUCH Haliburton actually takes less catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9 vs 2)

Or what about Luka? He sucks at offense right? He has 2.1 catch and shoot attempts per game. 

Your boy Devin Booker who you covet for offense is taking LESS catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9)

Jalen Brunson, Anthony Edwards, Shaeden Sharpe, James Harden, and Jalen Green are all within .5 CNS attempts per game. 

 Ball dominant guards don't play off ball. It's not just Trae, it's all of them. The guys you see taking a bunch of CNS are the ones that aren't elite creators like Derek White, Dennis Schröder, Coby White, etc. 

bringing receipts!

[SalvorMallow]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I think it is much more likely that Quin concluded the team couldn’t get Trae open catch and shoot looks on a regular basis.  Haven’t really seen us running sets designed to make that happen.  I am glad that DM has improved his jump shot with the open looks he gets playing with Trae but because they aren’t comparable playmakers and don’t have comparable gravity I don’t think there is comparable opportunity for them to get those catch and shoot looks.

Please disregard that if Snyder is calling for it and Trae is just refusing to try but I don’t see that.

Trae is almost doubling his CNS attempts per game from last year. DJ is actually taking 0.2 less which didn't match my personal eye test because I would've thought he was taking more, but interesting to note. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, JTB said:

 I believe DJ is still a tough kid but the team isn’t constructed right for him to play the 2 as impactful as he could .

While Zeke and Dumars was a small back court team who could defend they also had a beast front court defensively. 
 

If our front court was more aggressive, taller, lengthier, with a flat out dog mentality I believe the Trae/DJ backcourt would have worked fine but our front court is the opposite minus JJ.
 

Anyways once his dad and Trae dad started saying he’s out of position and holding that conversation on X (twitter) I knew there were internal discussions going on about doing something with DJ.

 

i don’t know what poster said it but they were spot on! Once Traes defense started to drastically improve this season that was a negative for DJ because now he’s guarding 2s nightly and Snyder isn’t trying to hide Trae defensively like Nate was but that’s a whole different conversation that need it’s own thread.

We can say the same thing about 20 teams in the NBA where the team isn't constructed correctly.

What does DJ and his people think is going to happen if he goes somewhere else?

Where can he go and start at PG?  The only place where he can go to a team over .500 and step in and be their starting PG is MAYBE in Phoenix or LA with the Lakers. But if Beal is healthy, does he even start there?  He could definitely start on the Lakers.

Is there any player on the Lakers that will help us, not named Lebron or AD?

 

My bad, he could start PG in New Orleans as well. That's easy then.

DJ + 12 + Mills + 2nd rd pick ... for Zion + Herb Jones

[JeffS17]

53 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Yeah true, that's why the straight up offensive SLOUCH Haliburton actually takes less catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9 vs 2)

Or what about Luka? He sucks at offense right? He has 2.1 catch and shoot attempts per game. 

Your boy Devin Booker who you covet for offense is taking LESS catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9)

Jalen Brunson, Anthony Edwards, Shaeden Sharpe, James Harden, and Jalen Green are all within .5 CNS attempts per game. 

 Ball dominant guards don't play off ball. It's not just Trae, it's all of them. The guys you see taking a bunch of CNS are the ones that aren't elite creators like Derek White, Dennis Schröder, Coby White, etc. 

I agree with the sentiment of your post but it's probably worth noting most of Trae's catch and shoot opportunities are 30 foot three point bombs.  It's not evidence of him doing anything off ball.

[Jdawgflow]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with the sentiment of your post but it's probably worth noting most of Trae's catch and shoot opportunities are 30 foot three point bombs.  It's not evidence of him doing anything off ball.

But if he is making ~40% of those wouldn’t it be a good shot?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, JTB said:

Capela may yes but when Bogi is in the right system he clearly flourishes. It’s really tough to me to trade Bogi at this point.

most are overlooking his value due to the injuries. Bogi is not only playing better cause of his health. He’s also playing better because of the perfect Fit in this offense.

Bogi has a flashing green light in this offense.

That also causes him to take extremely rushed shots at times.

If it's Bogi, he's tired of riding the bench during crunch time.

[SalvorMallow]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with the sentiment of your post but it's probably worth noting most of Trae's catch and shoot opportunities are 30 foot three point bombs.  It's not evidence of him doing anything off ball.

I've actually seen Trae do some give and gos this year with Clint and a bit of 2 man action with DJ. He's doing some stuff off the ball. I'd like to see him work on some 2 man sets with JJ since they are both strong passers. I think JJs injury has hampered their chemistry and opportunity. He's really the only player in the front court that can run any sort of inside-out action.

[JeffS17]

 

17 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

But if he is making ~40% of those wouldn’t it be a good shot?

Yes, definitely!

 

3 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

I've actually seen Trae do some give and gos this year with Clint and a bit of 2 man action with DJ. He's doing some stuff off the ball. I'd like to see him work on some 2 man sets with JJ since they are both strong passers. I think JJs injury has hampered their chemistry and opportunity. He's really the only player in the front court that can run any sort of inside-out action.

Yeah, he has done some more stuff off ball, but I am assuming DJ thought he would be functioning as the primary ball handler more than he has been when Trae is on the court.  I think there was either a miscommunication or a misunderstanding of them pairing up.  Oh well, DJ isn't some negative asset so we should get back good value for him and take another path.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

IF it is DJM that is asking for a trade, then I think the lack of "Off-ball, I played SG in High-School Trae Young" will end up being the culprit. 

 

 

 

Trae's refusal/inability to add catch and shoot to his game is glaring when you look at DJM's shooting improvements. It feels like one genuinely tried and the other just reverted back to their old ways. 

 

DJ, when he has the chance to run the team on his own, has seen leads disappear and offensive production become stagnant.  He is an average halfcourt offense PG.  He's good at finding his own offense with the ball in his hands, but not a good facilitator in the halfcourt.  When DJ excels in the halfcourt, he's creating and making his own shot. DJ is also good in transition as the PG.

Quin is the coach.  If he wanted to increase DJ's PG minutes, he could definitely do it.

But no coach in his right mind is going to take the ball out of the hands of a player that can generate 25 ppg from assists alone. 

Reminder, this is a top 5 offense. If Quin thought we'd be even better with DJ in control, we'd be seeing more of it.

How many 3 point assist does DJ have on the year?  I need to look that up.

Edited December 31, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises

[SalvorMallow]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

 

Yes, definitely!

 

Yeah, he has done some more stuff off ball, but I am assuming DJ thought he would be functioning as the primary ball handler more than he has been when Trae is on the court.  I think there was either a miscommunication or a misunderstanding of them pairing up.  Oh well, DJ isn't some negative asset so we should get back good value for him and take another path.

If he did, he is deluded. It's the equivalent of me being pissed that Max Verstappen won't let me take the wheel for a couple laps at the Vegas Grand Prix. Trae is so much better than DJ with the ball in his hands that it would be a huge negative impact to the team. DJ should be a 2nd option/outlet creation type of player. He isn't a primary creator IMO.

That being said, the frontcourt is the problem. If we get some ballers in the frontcourt, everything else will work out.

[Sothron]

Siakam to Atlanta seems likely now and could be done soon. Not the direction I would choose to go but owning his rights if he wants to leave in the offseason at least gives us something to work with.

[ShooterSays]

What’s it gonna cost?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I think you’re misinterpreting my post.  Im not suggesting he has thin skin(?)

 

I'm suggesting based on everything we've seem he's already asked out, and thats why the FO is already shopping him.  That doesn't have anything to do with him being thin skinned— hes probably asking out because he sees what everyone else sees, which is this isnt working.  

To me, that's having thin skin.  Dude has barely played 100 games on the Hawks and he wants out?. I hope that is false.

We're nowhere near out of the playoffs yet.  The team goes through a little adversity and people just give up?

Collins was in trade rumors for 4 straight years, but kept grinding.  Trae has been blasted in the media from Day 1, but keeps grinding.  But other people wilt and fold when their name comes up?

Maybe that's why this team is so soft physically.  They're mentally soft.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Ppl want him to be steph but he doesnt have the same skillset at all.

And Steph doesn't have some of his skills as a PG.

Two totally different players.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Because playing off the ball is critical for anyone in the NBA offensively. 

Name 5 PGs not named Steph Curry that play very well off the ball.

Just curious what your standards are.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, SalvorMallow said:

Yeah true, that's why the straight up offensive SLOUCH Haliburton actually takes less catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9 vs 2)

Or what about Luka? He sucks at offense right? He has 2.1 catch and shoot attempts per game. 

Your boy Devin Booker who you covet for offense is taking LESS catch and shoot attempts than Trae. (1.9)

Jalen Brunson, Anthony Edwards, Shaeden Sharpe, James Harden, and Jalen Green are all within .5 CNS attempts per game. 

 Ball dominant guards don't play off ball. It's not just Trae, it's all of them. The guys you see taking a bunch of CNS are the ones that aren't elite creators like Derek White, Dennis Schröder, Coby White, etc. 

Damn.  I knew I should've kept reading.  Because I was coming with these same numbers.

Thank you sir for this.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

50 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with the sentiment of your post but it's probably worth noting most of Trae's catch and shoot opportunities are 30 foot three point bombs.  It's not evidence of him doing anything off ball.

38% shooting on 30+ ft 3 pointers, by the way.

It was above 40% from that range.

[GameTime]

34 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Siakam to Atlanta seems likely now and could be done soon. Not the direction I would choose to go but owning his rights if he wants to leave in the offseason at least gives us something to work with.

Soon as in 24 hrs?