Hawks looking to trade

[Sothron]

28 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I genuinely appreciate your contributions to this forum, but I think this comment, while maybe rooted in some fact or snippet or conversation, is by definition heavily editorialized by either you or your source, which makes it an opinion, not a fact.  Just calling that out for others on this board, because I don't think it's generally helpful to view things in such a pessimistic way, even if there's some circumstantial evidence (at best) to support those opinions.  Even in the case Tony truly regrets firing Schlenk, I certainly do not care about Schlenk being gone.  Schlenk's fatal flaw building out our roster was overpaying guys, and that will always be the death knell for any squad, regardless of how talented they are.

And I think suggesting DJ is running some elaborate scheme where he's disingenuously being grateful for that contract is also just your opinion.  I'm sure there were conversations about fit and long term options, but this is pretty disrespectful to Murray imo.  He's not a politician... feels like a lot of history rewriting in this thread.

To be fair anything myself or anyone else posits on this forum is "opinion" unless it is a verifiable objective truth which falls under "fact". Think about all the times a GM or coach is fired in all sports. Then think about how many times an owner or GM said they made a mistake with the firing. How many times has that actually been said in public? Does that mean it isn't true because it was never established as "fact"?

I am not suggesting DJ is running a Ponzi scheme. He was not going to sign that extension because it was financially idiotic for him to do so. Then the Hawks told him he was going to be moved to Toronto for Siakam and he said no, I'll sign the extension instead. That is why he signed it.

I was asked not to say why from a Hawks source. The source @JayBirdHawk quoted for this is from Toronto. My guess is the Raps or Klutch leaked that on purpose to them at the time it happened. Now it comes out when all the rumors about DJM getting traded are heating up. Think about the scenario: Hawks source asks a non media "insider" to not speak about. Source wanted to protect DJ's image and rep to Hawks fans. 

DJM signing the extension stopped that trade, paid him well and gives him a good contract to make it easier for the Hawks to trade him. It is a win/win for all involved. DJM has no ill will to the Hawks or any coach or player. It just didn't work out and he wants out. The team agrees with him. If they could undo that trade they would have. 

I am not trying to go after anyone's character. I never said I blamed DJM or resented why he wants out or anything like it. I frankly resent that accusation. I like Murray. I have his Hawks jersey, actually, as a Christmas present last year from my parents. He's a good player and a good person. I have a self imposed obligation to pass long what I hear and what I trust after years of being an "insider" to the fans here. If that comes across as some kind of personal agenda or bias then I apologize but it is certainly not the intention.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Wonder how Trae feels about getting no help?   I thought this is what it was all about.  The front office was gonna go all in and get someone here to help Trae win. 

Now? They are sellers for nobody players and hopefully picks.  

In the next two years Trae will be the next big salary leaving town..........for nothing but role players and pics.   History tells us we don't know how to draft players.  

Buckle up buttercups!

It's horrible.

The same thing they did to Dominique.

And when Nique finally did get some help, they trade him off to save money and get younger.  Then that even backfired on them.

[SalvorMallow]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

To be fair anything myself or anyone else posits on this forum is "opinion" unless it is a verifiable objective truth which falls under "fact". Think about all the times a GM or coach is fired in all sports. Then think about how many times an owner or GM said they made a mistake with the firing. How many times has that actually been said in public? Does that mean it isn't true because it was never established as "fact"?

I am not suggesting DJ is running a Ponzi scheme. He was not going to sign that extension because it was financially idiotic for him to do so. Then the Hawks told him he was going to be moved to Toronto for Siakam and he said no, I'll sign the extension instead. That is why he signed it.

I was asked not to say why from a Hawks source. The source @JayBirdHawk quoted for this is from Toronto. My guess is the Raps or Klutch leaked that on purpose to them at the time it happened. Now it comes out when all the rumors about DJM getting traded are heating up. Think about the scenario: Hawks source asks a non media "insider" to not speak about. Source wanted to protect DJ's image and rep to Hawks fans. 

DJM signing the extension stopped that trade, paid him well and gives him a good contract to make it easier for the Hawks to trade him. It is a win/win for all involved. DJM has no ill will to the Hawks or any coach or player. It just didn't work out and he wants out. The team agrees with him. If they could undo that trade they would have. 

I am not trying to go after anyone's character. I never said I blamed DJM or resented why he wants out or anything like it. I frankly resent that accusation. I like Murray. I have his Hawks jersey, actually, as a Christmas present last year from my parents. He's a good player and a good person. I have a self imposed obligation to pass long what I hear and what I trust after years of being an "insider" to the fans here. If that comes across as some kind of personal agenda or bias then I apologize but it is certainly not the intention.

When's the last time a team gave up so much draft capital for a player and then turned around and traded them at a huge loss less than 6 months later? I can't think of any time.

[Sothron]

Okay let me counter some of the gloom and doom my posts seem to be causing:

The FO realizes this team in the post ECF run is just not working. That is a cause for celebration, frankly, among us as fans because it means change is coming. Quin was the first step. Moving off contracts created more financial flexibility even if the returns were minimal.

We can't do a full on rebuild. So those worrying about the team flat out tanking can set those concerns aside. We have probably three starters out the door between now and the offseason in DJM, Dre and Capela. We have one guy ready to step in already in OO. That leaves SG and SF. The return for those three guys will probably address those issues. We have Kobe and Bogi at SG. There's at least something there.

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

Well said and I agree. The doom and gloom in this thread is palpable, but mainly stemming from a serious case of extrapolation and assumptions to support a preordained "worst case scenario".

 

Schlenk made some terrible extensions that handcuffed our franchise, let's not act like he was the second coming of Bob Myers.

It's not so much 'worst case scenario' it's just that 'IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING' preventing us from taking the next step.

[SalvorMallow]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's not so much 'worst case scenario' it's just that 'IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING' preventing us from taking the next step.

If anything, I would call threatening to trade a player to empower our organization at the contract negotiating table a shrewd move by our GM, and it worked. Let's see how they can flip the great value contract they landed to get some talent that fits around Trae before we raise the white flag.

We don't really have any value contracts from the Schlenk era (other than rookie deals), so there is a silver lining here.

[GameTime]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

Tony regrets firing Travis but he will never say so in public. Nick has a large voice in this team. Tony is the one calling the shot to basically blow up the roster and try and fix the team to be a better fit for Quin's coaching style.

The Resslers?

 

[Sothron]

8 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

When's the last time a team gave up so much draft capital for a player and then turned around and traded them at a huge loss less than 6 months later? I can't think of any time.

The Harden trade is the closest off the top of my head. To be fair we had Murray longer than six months too.

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, SalvorMallow said:

If anything, I would call threatening to trade a player to empower our organization at the contract negotiating table a shrewd move by our GM, and it worked. Let's see how they can flip the great value contract they landed to get some talent that fits around Trae before we raise the white flag.

We don't really have any value contracts from the Schlenk era (other than rookie deals), so there is a silver lining here.

I would be accused of making opinions  but I agree with this. TS gave away too much money in extensions. Landry telling DJM he was going to be traded that led to DJM signing a team friendly extension definitely helped us out. Teams trading for DJM know they are getting an All Star level player for 4  years on team friendly deal.

[Gray Mule]

Woe is me!  Really?  Nope.  Not me.  There is very little difference in all the NBA teams as far as talent goes.  Sure, the Hawks were killed and buried by Indianapolis and will probably have the same thing happen in their next game.  Hawks just don't match up against this team.

Somehow, someway our players just don't fit together the way that they should, to form a perfect picture puzzle.  This is the main reason Squawk posters want trades to happen.  Get players that fit together.  Atlanta Hawks lose, over and over, but not too many blown out losses like the last one.

As bad and gloomy as our future is as Hawk fans, I'll be right here, believing that victory is just around the corner and that we will soon have players that fit.  We have rookies that will help us soon!

GO ATL HAWKS !!

[SalvorMallow]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The Harden trade is the closest off the top of my head. To be fair we had Murray longer than six months too.

Great example, thanks mang.

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, SalvorMallow said:

If anything, I would call threatening to trade a player to empower our organization at the contract negotiating table a shrewd move by our GM, and it worked. Let's see how they can flip the great value contract they landed to get some talent that fits around Trae before we raise the red flag.

I'm certainly willing to wait until we see what the return is before full on sounding the alarms, but the idea of "a young player plus picks" just doesn't SOUND like it's going to be something that makes the Hawks better.  At least not in the short term.  And that's where my frustration lies.  

When the deal floated was KAT for Murray, that is very intriguing.  When the deal floated is Murphy, Alvarado from NO for Murray, that is intriguing.  When the deal floated is "a young guy plus picks," well, that is less exciting and less intriguing unless we are talking about a legit young guy with All Star upside.  

[Sothron]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

I'm certainly willing to wait until we see what the return is before full on sounding the alarms, but the idea of "a young player plus picks" just doesn't SOUND like it's going to be something that makes the Hawks better.  At least not in the short term.  And that's where my frustration lies.  

When the deal floated was KAT for Murray, that is very intriguing.  When the deal floated is Murphy, Alvarado from NO for Murray, that is intriguing.  When the deal floated is "a young guy plus picks," well, that is less exciting and less intriguing unless we are talking about a legit young guy with All Star upside.  

When DJM is traded, and it is 100% certain he is being traded, I will go into more details about other offers we had and why they didn't work out.

[SalvorMallow]

@Sothron Have you heard if AJ is refusing to go play minutes in the G-League, he's not mentally ready to play, or we really just prefer him sitting on the bench? That is one aspect of this season that hasn't made any sense to me.

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

I can't say more. I've been asked to delete my initial post about this.

I get the info you give us but was this necessary? Or are we being dramatic like ?

 

And if you don’t then what? They gonna kidnap @kg01? Threats, all threats. 
 

 

[ShooterSays]

If it’s a young player + picks for DJM, I could see those picks going out sooner rather than later to try and land that 3rd star to pair with Trae and Jalen.

Maybe as soon as getting a 3rd team into the trade. 

Edited January 7 by ShooterSays

[SalvorMallow]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I get the info you give us but was this necessary? Or are we being dramatic like ?

 

And if you don’t then what? They gonna kidnap @kg01? Threats, all threats. 
 

 

[GameTime]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

When DJM is traded, and it is 100% certain he is being traded, I will go into more details about other offers we had and why they didn't work out.

Collins for TPE

Murray for a Ham Sandwich and a 2nd rounder?

What is going on Landry?

[Sothron]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I get the info you give us but was this necessary? Or are we being dramatic like ?

 

And if you don’t then what? They gonna kidnap @kg01? Threats, all threats. 
 

 

They don't have to speak to me at all, quite honestly. If they ask something reasonable like deleting a post I might have talked about too soon then it is a small price to keep a good relationship with the source. I'm not media or a talking head. Just a guy on a message board.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

We can't rebuild. We don't control our picks for the next THREE seasons after this year's draft. We don't have our firsts in 2025 and 2027 and have a pick swap with the Spurs in 2026.

The return we get for DJM will not the equal of what we gave up to get him for those still asking me about what to expect from a trade. This is not a salary dump, we will get value back, but not at two unprotected firsts and a pick swap level of return.

 

So if DJM is all but gone, here's what needs to happen:

 

(1) SHUT DJ DOWN RIGHT NOW!!   Can't be risking him getting hurt, if he could be dealt as early as next week.  Go ahead and shut him down, and send out every signal to the league that he's definitely on the trade block.  But we have to protect any potential major trade asset that could be dealt.

(2) MAKE JJ THE UNDISPUTED 2ND OFFENSIVE OPTION.  I want to see his usage upped substantially ( in the 25% range ).  Quin needs to give him the entire playbook, and the freedom to become a true 5 tool player.  If we're not going to get Trae the adequate help he needs, JJ needs to be groomed as that guy . . and fast.  He gets the keys to the car, the house, the boat, everything.

(3) ANY TRADES THAT HAPPEN THIS YEAR NEED TO BE FOR ATHLETIC WING AND FRONTCOURT PLAYERS.   Even if you don't get the shooters and defenders you want, I want to see this team get much more athletic.  Get guys in here who can run the floor like crazy and finish at the rim, or be active enough to use their athleticism to help on the borads.

(4) START 12 AT THE 2.  I don't care if he can't guard 2s.  I want to see him offensively at the 2.  Use his size to either shoot over people or post people up.  If we acquire an athletic 3 in a trade, have him guard the 2 . . or whomever is the best offensive backcourt/wing player.

 

 

Trae is too much of a competitor to just tank the season.  If this gets too far away, what may happen is that Trae may go out with a mysterious "injury" that will sideline him for the rest of the year.  Maybe this "lingering" shoulder injury is a prelude to this.  Think Joe Johnson in the 2006 - 07 season, when he went out for the final 25 or so games of the year with a mysterious injury, to increase our draft standing. 

That's when JJ, the young guys and remaining players will get an extensive look.

Don't let us go out like that Landry.  Pull off a savvy move that saves this season and sets us up for next season.  This is the first REAL test of your ability to be a good GM.