I've been watching the 2024 NBA Draft class and it's been... weaker than usual

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Considering I’m 112-1 against you, sure, cab lightening ️ hit a person twice? Low chances you know that your the (cough cough) numbers guy  

Which multiverse are we in again?

Edited March 27 by thecampster

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Comparing Clint to Edey. Edey is 6 inches taller with a 5.5 inch longer wingspan. That is almost a full extra foot of length for teams to have to shoot over, drive around, out jump.  Edey is strong. He's deceptively strong/wirey. Clint has to work much harder to maintain good position in the post.  Unlike most young bigs, Edey's strength is in his legs. This is something most players must work on after getting into the league. Part of why Edey looks plodding at times is because he's working off of such a strong lower body. He can muscle his way in with his lower body, not just try to out jump people. He's also adept at early box outs. He's committed to boxing his man out early, instead of just relying on his size. This is why you'll see a lot of late reaction snags on rebounds from him. He's giving up the ball for the body. It looks awkward but its the right way to play the post. Establish position before you ball hunt.  You really need to do a reset and watch film on him again for the things I'm discussing. Purdue might not have even made the tourney without him.

I keep telling folks, he's moving a lot better than you think. I've track his movements and they clocked better than any of our centers outside of OO which 8 inches shorter and 60 pounds lighter. That's the same gap between Ben Simmons and Trae Young. 

Edited March 27 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

I think the only real prospect I've been wrong about in the last 6 years is Luka (who I still don't like)

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

I think the only real prospect I've been wrong about in the last 6 years is Luka (who I still don't like)

I missed on a bevy of OADs. Reddish, Bamba, WCJ, Bol who had medical issues, Ayton who's disappointed. 

Only upperclassmen I've ever missed on was Toppin and Cameron Johnson. I had him as a late 1st rounder. I didn't see him being a 100 million dollar player. I felt small ball 4 would be his role but didn't realize, he wouldn't be a liability playing it. I was wrong on him and PHX who took him at 11 was right. Shouldn't have wrongfully graded an excellent college player. Him, Edey, Clarke, and Mikal Bridges were EXCELLENT college players. If someone is excellent in college, you should think they will at least be productive NBA players. At the least. They weren't excellent for no reason in college. All of the greats who played and only so few have been excellent. 

[Spud2nique]

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Which multiverse are we in again?

Real world toots!

[kg01]

If Edey was 25% as good as folks itt are saying he is, he wouldn't be a Boilermaker rn.

But the real question is wtf is a boilermaker? 

[kg01]

27 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I think the only real prospect I've been wrong about in the last 6 years is Luka (who I still don't like)

My memory's a bit foggy but I feel I got led astray partly because of you on that.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you for me picking Bamba over Trae that year.

Thanks a lot, tcampst. 

 

[shakes]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Come on shakes. Let's wait till the facts present themselves and justice runs it's course. 

I'm just messing around.  personally I don't care if he raped anyone.  I learned after 10/7 that rape is kosher.

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My memory's a bit foggy but I feel I got led astray partly because of you on that.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you for me picking Bamba over Trae that year.

Thanks a lot, tcampst. 

 

That's on you buddy. I made my feelings on Bamba quite clear (I believe I slated him 8th on the board).

[thecampster]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

If Edey was 25% as good as folks itt are saying he is, he wouldn't be a Boilermaker rn.

But the real question is wtf is a boilermaker? 

It isn't about how "good" he is. It won't be about raw stats. Its about impact. Just having him on the floor will affect pretty much everything the other team does at both ends of the floor. 

Edey faces constant double/triple teams and still does what he does. You double Trae or DJ with Edey on the floor and its 90% going to be 2 points. Edey passes out far better than any of our bigs. He isn't a good passer per say, but he's excellent at the dump in/rebound kick it out to restart.

 

See this video:  The dive on the floor and how body controlled he is to give it up to the guard before he even stops sliding. This body control, this understanding of the team aspect of basketball is his "team game".
 

Go to the 6 minute mark in this video and see his passing/playmaking ability (6:00).
 

 

[Packfill]

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I missed on a bevy of OADs. Reddish, Bamba, WCJ, Bol who had medical issues, Ayton who's disappointed. 

Only upperclassmen I've ever missed on was Toppin and Cameron Johnson. I had him as a late 1st rounder. I didn't see him being a 100 million dollar player. I felt small ball 4 would be his role but didn't realize, he wouldn't be a liability playing it. I was wrong on him and PHX who took him at 11 was right. Shouldn't have wrongfully graded an excellent college player. Him, Edey, Clarke, and Mikal Bridges were EXCELLENT college players. If someone is excellent in college, you should think they will at least be productive NBA players. At the least. They weren't excellent for no reason in college. All of the greats who played and only so few have been excellent. 

Plenty of collegiate all-americans and players of the year that have done nadda in the NBA.

Two recent Wooden Award winners are Oscar Tschiebwe and Luke Garza.  Or look back a few years at Frank Mason, Tyler Hansbrough and Jimmer Fredette.

Looking at the list of winners - Kevin Durant's freshman year was nuts!

[thecampster]

Edey playing with NBA star level talent.  USA vs Canada scrimmage.

 

 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Plenty of collegiate all-americans and players of the year that have done nadda in the NBA.

Two recent Wooden Award winners are Oscar Tschiebwe and Luke Garza.  Or look back a few years at Frank Mason, Tyler Hansbrough and Jimmer Fredette.

Looking at the list of winners - Kevin Durant's freshman year was nuts!

None of them were excellent players. 

Oscar wasn't 

Luka wasn't 

Frank wasn't 

Hansbrough is the best of what you listed and he wasn't one and he was a MIP candidate and a 6th man of the year candidate. Tyler probably ended up the 15-17 best player in his class which is around where he got picked. 

Jimmer had a worst DBPM than Trae Young in a middling conference and didn't have a PG game but was PG size. His career went as expected. 

None of these guys were excellent. Most were just good. Hansbrough, very good. They weren't as good as senior Clarke, senior Cameron Johnson, senior Edey, and junior Mikal Bridges. 

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyler-hansbrough--jimmer-fredette--frank-mason--luka-garza--oscar-tshiebwe

Excellent players 

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--mikal-bridges--brandon-clarke--cameron-johnson

The biggest issue those against Edey have is really their floor is just insanely too low. Edey floor is very high for most situations. It's his upside that's an issue for most teams. 

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I was about to correct you to say Bridges went before Knox but no, he went after. Why did I think Bridges went 7th and Knox 9th! I’m losin it.

 

Does Buzelis remind you of Mario Hezonia from a decade ago? Both ultra aggressive wing type dudes. But Hez could shoot it well he was just mad cocky comin into the league and was humbled fast.

Nice! How you feelin brotha? 

Slowly getting better. Diabetes is as usual slowing down the healing process. Thanks for checking in

[Gray Mule]

Both were NBA rookies.  

Trae was coming into the league with one year of college ball.  He led college in points and assists.

Luka came into the league with several years of experience as a pro in overseas play.  Numerous awards were his.

Two players who will be forever linked because of the trade of drafted NBA rookies.

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Both were NBA rookies.  

Trae was coming into the league with one year of college ball.  He led college in points and assists.

Luka came into the league with several years of experience as a pro in overseas play.  Numerous awards were his.

Two players who will be forever linked because of the trade of drafted NBA rookies.

So Edey a bust? It’s a numbers game gramps! 

[KB21]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

90% of the time, you and I are lock step together in our evaluations.  Back in the Trae draft, we had similar opinions, with me preferring Trae, you preferring JJJ but respectful blurred lines in our evaluations.  I'm going to do now what I did back then and make my case for Edey.

Few players force the defense to make bad choices. Trae Young is that kind of player. The only way to beat Trae is to sell out to double the ball high and play 3v4 against the rest of the team.  Trae is so unique, he commands this type of sell out. 

Edey demands a sellout on offense. There are maybe 8 players in the entire NBA who can guard him 1v1 within 10 feet. There are again, maybe 5 players in the NBA who can challenge him in the rebounding game. The entire defense must adjust when he is on the floor and a double team of Trae Young early, will mean an easy scoring opportunity for Edey against all but a handful of players. Offensively, they are about as dangerous a pairing as you can find.

Although Edey on the defensive end is going to be a problem at the perimeter, much like Gobert, he also has that same effect. Any team that relies on inside play (see Philly) to spark their outside play, will be severely gimped. Regardless of movement or recovery time, a near 8 foot wingspan on a 7'4" frame is very hard to shoot around. Like JJJ, he'll struggle to stay out of foul trouble year 1-2 but once he catches up to the speed of guard play, the lane will be shut down.  Edey will change what other teams due offensively so much (based on size alone), it will free up our wings to actually play man up defense on the perimeter without having to chase every drive in the lane.

 

Its unpopular, but I'll say it. Clint is not the answer. He's not even close to the answer. A "C" who lacks size like Clint has to be able to shoot from outside. Clint gets rebounds by working but he gives up 5 rebounds a game that size alone would offer him (see Bruno easy boards). Edey solves our problem with other team 2nd chances while being just as good as Clint in the rebounding department. Edey is an eventual upgrade over Clint while allowing us to move on from his and/or OO's salary and keep our guard play where it is.

 

Edey's value isn't just in his stats but in how he forces opponents to play outside their normal game plan. With guards like Trae/DJM, teams will have to choose who to guard and who to Hunt. Edey allows the Hawks to dictate matchups, not react to them.  He is the only choice, regardless of if he ends up the best player in the class.

This is one I'm not going to be convinced on.  He's no different than most plodding style traditional bigs.  There isn't really anything he brings to the table that is elite outside of his size.  No perimeter offensive game and limited defensive ability is a big no from me.  Also, having him is going to cause you to go very slow with your pace.  That works against how Quin and Trae both want to operate.  

Whereas with a guy like Missi, you have a guy who may not have a perimeter offensive game, but he's going to be much more athletic on his drives/rolls to the basket and isn't going to be a defensive liability.  Edey is not similar to Gobert at all.  A prime Gobert had the quickness to actually guard in space.  Edey is never going to be able to guard in space.  He's never going to be able to react quickly enough to hedge on the perimeter and recover to the paint.  

We have already seen what Edey's NBA future is with Boban.  A situational back up big man who you play in match up situations.  Edey is not a starting center in the modern NBA.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is one I'm not going to be convinced on.  He's no different than most plodding style traditional bigs.  There isn't really anything he brings to the table that is elite outside of his size.  No perimeter offensive game and limited defensive ability is a big no from me.  Also, having him is going to cause you to go very slow with your pace.  That works against how Quin and Trae both want to operate.  

Whereas with a guy like Missi, you have a guy who may not have a perimeter offensive game, but he's going to be much more athletic on his drives/rolls to the basket and isn't going to be a defensive liability.  Edey is not similar to Gobert at all.  A prime Gobert had the quickness to actually guard in space.  Edey is never going to be able to guard in space.  He's never going to be able to react quickly enough to hedge on the perimeter and recover to the paint.  

We have already seen what Edey's NBA future is with Boban.  A situational back up big man who you play in match up situations.  Edey is not a starting center in the modern NBA.

He moves better than Gobert. It's the fluidity stuff that Gobert has over him. 

Man, he's a much better athlete than you give him credit for and that's why we are here and you are there. 

It's clockwork. If you are for Edey, he's a much better athlete than the misinformation out there. Even his testing numbers and in game data proves it. 

But his naysayers are like, f his data, he looks clunky, he must be clunky. The end. Boban, Tacko, Muresan, the end. 

This is not gonna change. Even in the NBA, they still won't like the way he moves. Just say the NBA is soft and that's why he's successful, because he's really big

Edited March 27 by NBASupes

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He moves better than Gobert. It's the fluidity stuff that Gobert has over him. 

Man, he's a much better athlete than you give him credit for and that's why we are here and you are there. 

Watching Edey on the court is like watching a three toed sloth move around.  What you call a lack of fluidity or whatever, it is slow as shit.  The draft guys who like him always shuck it off by saying "He's 7'4", he's not going to be that quick."  The fact is, he isn't quick with anything he does.  There is no explosion.  It takes him too long to get going.  If he has to stop and redirect, he's dead in the water in the NBA.  

[KB21]

Also, do you know why most of the draft guys are saying that his best fit is the Knicks?  The Knicks are 30th in the NBA in pace of play.  They play the slowest, and that's why Edey fits them the best.