NBA ALLSTAR WEEKEND: Trae Young - 2024 Allstar

[shakes]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I'm not that simple-minded.  

 

Let’s get real for a moment.  You think comedy consists entirely of just intentionally misspelling words and names.  You’re pretty simple minded.

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, shakes said:

 

Let’s get real for a moment.  You think comedy consists entirely of just intentionally misspelling words and names.  You’re pretty simple minded.

Heh, smells like you're the one thinking that's all I think.  :shoulder-shrug... 

[RedDawg#8]

Has anyone ever watched a Trae Young interview in their lifetime? I know on the court he looks like a huge asshole, but anytime he speaks off the court he is as soft as cotton. Do yal really think that kid is up in anyone’s face strong arming leadership to make decisions? Or is it more likely that the FO solicits his opinion on certain decisions in order to check the temperature of their biggest investment?
Trae is a hooper. The kid just wants to ball. If someone asks his opinion Im sure he gives it. If his dad wants to stick up for him and put things out on twitter, I am sure there is truth to it. If he asked about the possibility of keeping JC or acquiring DJ, I am sure they took his request in to account.

But I do not see a scenario where he is telling anyone what to do. I do not see him threatening to leave because he didn’t like Nate or LP. I think we are looking at the influence of a Lebron and other stars and giving Trae wayyyy too much credit in terms of getting his bosses to do anything he wants. If fits the narrative against him but it doesn’t fit his actual personality, demeanor, or the info he has put out to the media. 

Just my two cents.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I definitely think people don't understand either Trae's culpability or which moves created our current problems.  We're $14M away from being a top ten luxury tax paying team.  People act like spending that extra $14M is what holds us back without answering for the $158M we spent plus the JC contract we cut.    

John Collins so far has been our worst move.  I understand the emotions behind wanting to keep him and pay him, and there were moments we missed where we could have traded him for some nice packages.  

I think we could have redeemed going for it in 2020-2021 with the right trade(s) to follow that success.  Or even just taking Halliburton over Okongwu.  

Murray is the wild card looking ahead.  That could turn in our favor or be the worst mistake we ever made.  

Nobody cares how much the owner has to pay.   He should want to have a winner, not a cash cow. 

 

[Final_quest]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nobody cares how much the owner has to pay.   He should want to have a winner, not a cash cow. 

 

He should want both.  But this team wouldn’t get much better even with spending another $14M.  

[RedDawg#8]

19 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

He should want both.  But this team wouldn’t get much better even with spending another $14M.  

Exactly. 
Im sure we didn’t to where we are today because Ressler thought being a 10th seed was the goal.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

He should want both.  But this team wouldn’t get much better even with spending another $14M.  

It's not exactly what you spend, it's who you get.   We're dropping players to make it under the LT.  That's the problem FQ.  We are so thin at the 4/5.. I don't believe we have a true 4 on this team.  Trae has had to play with the likes of Garrison Mathews, Wes Matthews, TLC, Knox, Etc... and we believe that we're doing right by him?  No.. we're doing right by the LT.  You concock this argument based on our team now that all the positions are filled and FAcy is over.. but look at our team over the time we have had Trae.   Trae is a generational talent.. whether you like it or not and what have we put around him??  We can't draft for nothing.   Our trades are onesided the other way.  We are never in the mix when it comes to getting a star or superstar player to pit with Trae.   It's not the extra 14 Million right now.. it's the fact that we have never been over the LT since having Trae... we have dropped starter quality players to stay under the LT.  And that's a CRIME.

 

 

[Diesel]

Since the original conversation was the allstar game and Trae...

Can I just say that it felt like the whole NBA is against Trae this weekend?

Skills Challenge.

How did the Pacer get into the passing competition playoff ?  They lost 74 to 70..   However, out of nowhere, somebody found a hanging chad or something and it was tied up 74 all.. then in the final... the Pacers just abandoned the rules... and the refs let it happened.

Three Point Contest..

Why was Trae selected to go first right after the Skills competition where he just finished heaving half court shots?  How did Dame get into the 4 way tie with his foot on the line?

Allstar game...

So Trae was the only player that they called a foul on.  4 fouls committed, 3 calls on Trae.   Then they call Trae for travelling?  Did they watch anybody else???  Giannis?  Lebron, even Steph??  I did..

Doc just didn't feel like playing Trae?  He got like 3 minutes in the 2nd and about 10 minutes in the 4th.  Just broken up playing time. 

The refs sent the message that they don't f with Trae Young.   That's what I saw.   And the League don't want Trae to get no shine. 

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

11 hours ago, thecampster said:

Dude, Luka played like he was 350 and 2 sheets to the wind. He was moving so slow my wife asked what was up with him.

 

he did. My wife picked him as her pregame MVP and I went with Durant. But wow, I mean, folks are watching Luka sheesh  

[Spud2nique]

36 minutes ago, Diesel said:

this weekend?

This weekend and his entire career. I’m sorry it’s ridiculous that he was a replacement and it’s ridiculous that he wasn’t picked for at least one more. He should be at 4 all star ️ games in my view. I digress.

[Spud2nique]

7 hours ago, hawkman said:

Both he and Jokic's dunks/dunk attempts were hilarious though. 

I cheered when the rim rejected Luka my bad. I’m sorry there’s something inside of me, it’s not him it’s the dang media and what they’ve made Hawks fans feel like..  

[Final_quest]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

It's not exactly what you spend, it's who you get.   We're dropping players to make it under the LT.  That's the problem FQ.  We are so thin at the 4/5.. I don't believe we have a true 4 on this team.  Trae has had to play with the likes of Garrison Mathews, Wes Matthews, TLC, Knox, Etc... and we believe that we're doing right by him?  No.. we're doing right by the LT.  You concock this argument based on our team now that all the positions are filled and FAcy is over.. but look at our team over the time we have had Trae.   Trae is a generational talent.. whether you like it or not and what have we put around him??  We can't draft for nothing.   Our trades are onesided the other way.  We are never in the mix when it comes to getting a star or superstar player to pit with Trae.   It's not the extra 14 Million right now.. it's the fact that we have never been over the LT since having Trae... we have dropped starter quality players to stay under the LT.  And that's a CRIME.

 

 

Yep and while everyone was saying we should keep our core together after the ECF I was saying that would be a foolish way to manage our assets.  That we should pursue All NBA level talent ASAP and not resort to paying big contracts to try to keep the team together.

Remember I told you specifically every contender has two HOF guys on the roster and we don’t have that guy.  You told me that Gallo would be considered a HOF guy after we win a title.  That’s really what you said.

A contender primarily spends  about $100M on their top 3 players that carry their team.  Very least you need two top shelf guys.  Not sure why we talk so much about Wes Matthews.  Literally every NBA team fills out the bottom half of their roster with vet mins and rookie contracts.  Our problem continues to be the wrong guys at the top.  

Let’s play out the scenario everyone is lamenting that we should have signed someone like Thybulle, Gabe Vincent, or Niang.  We also signed extensions for Okongwu and Murray.  That means we would have to be a top 5 payroll to bring Bey back next year and top 10 payroll without him just because of signing a better role player last summer.  

You guys said keeping our core is what we want in 2021.  You’re saying signing better role players to big money contracts to support Trae is what you want now.  Both ideas are wrong.  

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Yep and while everyone was saying we should keep our core together after the ECF I was saying that would be a foolish way to manage our assets.  That we should pursue All NBA level talent ASAP and not resort to paying big contracts to try to keep the team together.

Remember I told you specifically every contender has two HOF guys on the roster and we don’t have that guy.  You told me that Gallo would be considered a HOF guy after we win a title.  That’s really what you said.

A contender primarily spends  about $100M on their top 3 players that carry their team.  Very least you need two top shelf guys.  Not sure why we talk so much about Wes Matthews.  Literally every NBA team fills out the bottom half of their roster with vet mins and rookie contracts.  Our problem continues to be the wrong guys at the top.  

Let’s play out the scenario everyone is lamenting that we should have signed someone like Thybulle, Gabe Vincent, or Niang.  We also signed extensions for Okongwu and Murray.  That means we would have to be a top 5 payroll to bring Bey back next year and top 10 payroll without him just because of signing a better role player last summer.  

You guys said keeping our core is what we want in 2021.  You’re saying signing better role players to big money contracts to support Trae is what you want now.  Both ideas are wrong.  

I still believe had we won an NBA title or two, somebody else other than Trae would have been seen as a HOFer.. maybe not Gallo but somebody.   Look at the nominees for this year...

This includes, Chauncey Billups Vince Carter, Michael Cooper, Walter Davis Bo Ryan, and Charles Smith. 

Michael Cooper?   Charles Smith?

Coop's best year, he was 9, 6, and 3.  Coop has rode the Magic Bus to the HoF.  By that same token, somebody JC, CC, Kevor somebody would have made a HoF appearance if we had won a couple of titles.

But I agree with you.. the right strategy is not to keep everybody.  The right strategy is to figure out who to keep.  Who helps winning and what can we get to help winning.    Let's talk about how we really dropped the ball...

1.  JC negotiations.   JC was on the trade block for about 4 years... nonstop.  We managed to take his value from a guy who could be a good secondary player to a guy who you can get for a couple of second rounders.   Our Front office mismanagement the movement of JC by allowing leaks to persist.  They still don't recognize this.  If you continue to put it out there that you're trying to trade one of your top players and if it is out there that you didn't trade him.. his value plummets. 

2.  Cam and Dre Draft.   When we drafted Cam, we should have counted that if he were a headcase, we keep it quiet and showcase him for a good trade.  Knox and a protected first is not good compensation for what Cam could have been.   Secondly, what did we know about Cam and Dre really?

3.  Kev Trade.  Why did we have to move Kev if it wasn't to get under the LT?  The moment we moved Kev is the moment we started needing shooters.

These are problem moves.   It has led us, partly, to where we are.  Trying to keep the core together was a bit of the issue..but more an issue is not knowing what was necessary and not necessary. 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

56 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Coop's best year, he was 9, 6, and 3.  Coop has rode the Magic Bus to the HoF. 

I dunno about this. Coop was like an all world defender and that’s not something Magic helped him with in any way. Dude was up for defensive player of the year on the regular.

Even when Kobe came in as a hot headed young prospect working out with LA, Jerry West had Coop stick him in the workout. 
 

Nobody made moves against Coop.

Guys like Coop and Alvin Robertson and others can’t be judged based on their offensive stats, it’s all D for them, having said that Coop was a killer with the three as well even before it was popularized.

[AHF]

11 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Not to split hairs, but every person is responsible for their actions.  

Right but think about what he is really responsible for here.  He is 22 years old on his rookie deal and lets it be known he wants to see the guy he has played with for the last 3 years and seen average 20 & 10, 22 & 10, and 18 & 7 get resigned at a fair price?  Big ****ing deal.  Sorry but that is not bad behavior in the slightest.  

Quote

In this star driven league players leverage their status to influence personnel decisions to the point where stars seem like they are the GM at times.

The guys who do that are established stars who have the threat of UFA that allows them to pressure their teams into doing things or stars who are playing matchmaker and recruiting people to play with them.  I've not seen any sign that Trae was doing any of that in 2021.

Quote

Thanasis is not a player any GM would ever put on a roster, but the MVP wants him on the team.  Stars decide if they want to leave a team and request a trade.  

Thanasis is the Jack Haley of the Bucks.  We are talking about using the 15th spot on the roster to have someone your star wants instead of a Trent Forrest or Seth Lundy or some washed up vet.  You can fairly critique that as a selfish demand from a star but it is not even close to comparable to the decision to resign JC and the amount you decide to offer him.  He signed a one-year minimum contract with the Bucks.  

I assume no one thinks that JC didn't belong on a roster so we are talking about very different things here.  Deciding to overpay JC is not Trae's responsibility or culpability.  It is the adults who run the team who make that call and I don't care at all if Trae signaled he wanted to see JC return.  Supporting your teammate in FA is not some big crime.  GM's need to make those calls in the best interests of the team.  

Quote

There is nothing unusual about suggesting rumors are true that Trae wanted JC resigned.

You are correct.  There is nothing unusual about a 22 year old wanting a teammate and friend resigned.  Big freaking deal.

Until we get some proof (even a suggestion would be more than we have now) that Trae did something truly extraordinary here like telling the team that he would never play for the Hawks again unless JC's contract didn't at least amount to $125M then making it known you wanted to see the guy who has been the biggest point of continuity for you in your young career resigned is just so pedestrian that, imo, it is not even worthy of commenting on.

[JustSomeGuy]

The bigger issue for me with our team building strategy wasn’t that we didn’t pick the right players as much as players we pick don’t develop. This is what gives you roster flexibility in the long run that we don’t have. 

We have so many guys who start out their careers strong and just never take the next step. I’d put Huerter, JC, Hunter, and Reddish on this list (Cam is kind of a bum but still). We are seeing the same thing with OO to to a degree.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

But I agree with you.. the right strategy is not to keep everybody.  The right strategy is to figure out who to keep.  Who helps winning and what can we get to help winning.    Let's talk about how we really dropped the ball...

We also extended CC. I made the comment that it made him easier to trade at the deadline. Both CC and Gallo were both made available at the trade deadline that season, but as usual we did nothing. Just because we started the season bringing back the team l, it didn't mean we had to keep it the same thru the deadline particularly when we were struggling.

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I dunno about this. Coop was like an all world defender and that’s not something Magic helped him with in any way. Dude was up for defensive player of the year on the regular.

Even when Kobe came in as a hot headed young prospect working out with LA, Jerry West had Coop stick him in the workout. 
 

Nobody made moves against Coop.

Guys like Coop and Alvin Robertson and others can’t be judged based on their offensive stats, it’s all D for them, having said that Coop was a killer with the three as well even before it was popularized.

Coop's best year was 9 points, 6 assist (being generous) and 3 rebs.

His high in points was 11 points but he was like 11/3/3.

I don't take anything away from Coop's defense.  He was a very good defender.  There are just no numbers to support it.  Just memories. 

This is what is said about his nomination:

Quote

For one thing, he was a part of some legendary Showtime Lakers teams, serving as one of the best wing defenders in the league while winning five championships, making the All-Defensive team eight times, and winning the Defensive Player of the Year in 1987 despite coming off of the bench for all but two games that season. His career stats — 8.9 points, 3.2 rebounds and 4.3 assists per game — may not be gaudy, but it’s clear that he was a better and more valuable player than they suggest on their own, and was willing to sublimate his own ego or desire for a bigger role to win.

Here's the voting in 87...

 

Eaton and Robertson were snubbed.

 

[Spud2nique]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

There are just no numbers to support it.  Just memories. 

Rings only.. 3 I believe.

[AHF]

Cooper is one of those excellent role players who wouldn't even be discussed for the HOF if he was 50% more productive for the Bucks or Hawks or some other team that wasn't a big market dynasty.  Outstanding player but he has fewer All-Star appearances than Jeff Teague and Kyle Korver do.  He was an excellent defender, solid outside shooter, and someone who played every game year after year but not really a game changing player (it wasn't like he carried the load for the Lakers that Ben Wallace did for the Pistons, etc.).  Worthy of being remembered but not worthy of the HOF.