NBA ALLSTAR WEEKEND: Trae Young - 2024 Allstar

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Luka played like he party hard..

- 

Dude, Luka played like he was 350 and 2 sheets to the wind. He was moving so slow my wife asked what was up with him.

 

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Dude, Luka played like he was 350 and 2 sheets to the wind. He was moving so slow my wife asked what was up with him.

 

The emperor has no clothes.  Nobody will say anything.  But, if that was Traeeeeeee...... 

[Final_quest]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll sound like me mad at the Hawks about Al Horford. Feeling like Horford carried this franchise, you should give him everything. 

Trae is part of the reason we are here. They traded for Murray because he demanded it. 

They ended the tank early because he demanded it. 

That stupid ass JC deal was all Trae demanding it and his dad saying JC should be paid. He earned it. 

Trae isn't innocent in this but that said, it doesn't change the fact we got work to do to get this ship back on the right track. 

I definitely think people don't understand either Trae's culpability or which moves created our current problems.  We're $14M away from being a top ten luxury tax paying team.  People act like spending that extra $14M is what holds us back without answering for the $158M we spent plus the JC contract we cut.    

John Collins so far has been our worst move.  I understand the emotions behind wanting to keep him and pay him, and there were moments we missed where we could have traded him for some nice packages.  

I think we could have redeemed going for it in 2020-2021 with the right trade(s) to follow that success.  Or even just taking Halliburton over Okongwu.  

Murray is the wild card looking ahead.  That could turn in our favor or be the worst mistake we ever made.  

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I definitely think people don't understand either Trae's culpability or which moves created our current problems.  We're $14M away from being a top ten luxury tax paying team.  People act like spending that extra $14M is what holds us back without answering for the $158M we spent plus the JC contract we cut.    

John Collins so far has been our worst move.  I understand the emotions behind wanting to keep him and pay him, and there were moments we missed where we could have traded him for some nice packages.  

I think we could have redeemed going for it in 2020-2021 with the right trade(s) to follow that success.  Or even just taking Halliburton over Okongwu.  

Murray is the wild card looking ahead.  That could turn in our favor or be the worst mistake we ever made.  

Trae has 0 culpability.   Zilch.  None. If he asked them to change the uniform colors to match the Oklahoma Sooners, and they do it, that's on them.  100% 

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I definitely think people don't understand [] Trae's culpability

Please enlighten me as to the culpability of a 22 year old player who was under team control for the next 5 years for the decision to resign John Collins for the precise contract he was offered by the Hawks management team.  I'm all ears as to how the adults in the room (the owner and GM) gave up their power and responsibility to manage the franchise and were forced by Trae to hand all that power over to him to make all the important decisions for the team down to the precise contract they would offer to a pending restricted free agent.  Please let me know how the GM abdicating his job to Trae wasn't the fault of Tony Ressler or Travis Schlenk.  

(Again, I don't believe Trae was ever acting GM for this team.  I'm sure he made his preference known that he wanted JC to get resigned to a fair deal.  IMO, that does not suddenly make him responsible for running the front office.)

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I definitely think people don't understand either Trae's culpability or which moves created our current problems.  We're $14M away from being a top ten luxury tax paying team.  People act like spending that extra $14M is what holds us back without answering for the $158M we spent plus the JC contract we cut.    

John Collins so far has been our worst move.  I understand the emotions behind wanting to keep him and pay him, and there were moments we missed where we could have traded him for some nice packages.  

I think we could have redeemed going for it in 2020-2021 with the right trade(s) to follow that success.  Or even just taking Halliburton over Okongwu.  

Murray is the wild card looking ahead.  That could turn in our favor or be the worst mistake we ever made.  

We would have f***ed up Haliburton but regardless if we did or not, I would much rather have him than not have him. 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Trae has 0 culpability.   Zilch.  None. If he asked them to change the uniform colors to match the Oklahoma Sooners, and they do it, that's on them.  100% 

Ehhh, you guys would be the first to call out ownership and the front office if Trae asked out because they didn't acquiesce to what he wanted

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Please enlighten me as to the culpability of a 22 year old player who was under team control for the next 5 years for the decision to resign John Collins for the precise contract he was offered by the Hawks management team.  I'm all ears as to how the adults in the room (the owner and GM) gave up their power and responsibility to manage the franchise and were forced by Trae to hand all that power over to him to make all the important decisions for the team down to the precise contract they would offer to a pending restricted free agent.  Please let me know how the GM abdicating his job to Trae wasn't the fault of Tony Ressler or Travis Schlenk.  

(Again, I don't believe Trae was ever acting GM for this team.  I'm sure he made his preference known that he wanted JC to get resigned to a fair deal.  IMO, that does not suddenly make him responsible for running the front office.)

Ultimately this is Tony’s call, but I can believe Trae and Nick influenced dad to make certain decisions.  When I say culpability I mean that I believe Trae and Ray have a lot of influence with Nick and Tony.  

If you want court case evidence, we may never see/hear that.  The smoke suggests Trae’s camp was a factor in some of our moves.  

Should he have that level of influence?  Can anyone on this forum offer concrete proof of how much influence Trae has?

I guess I’m saying I believe he has a significant voice and further I believe it’s naive to believe he has zero influence.  

[macdaddy]

43 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ehhh, you guys would be the first to call out ownership and the front office if Trae asked out because they didn't acquiesce to what he wanted

That's not really the point.  Their whole job is to build a team the right way and have buy in from key players.  If they can't do the second one then the first one is impossible. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Ultimately this is Tony’s call, but I can believe Trae and Nick influenced dad to make certain decisions.  When I say culpability I mean that I believe Trae and Ray have a lot of influence with Nick and Tony.  

If you want court case evidence, we may never see/hear that.  The smoke suggests Trae’s camp was a factor in some of our moves.  

Should he have that level of influence?  Can anyone on this forum offer concrete proof of how much influence Trae has?

I guess I’m saying I believe he has a significant voice and further I believe it’s naive to believe he has zero influence.  

So:

(1) We don't know what he asked for.

(2) It isn't his job to make the calls on this stuff anyway.

Whether he has influence or not, the buck stops with Ressler and Schlenk on JC's extension.

 

My personal "talking out of my ass" guess is that he did have influence in saying he wanted JC signed to a fair deal.  Management was also high on JC at that time as well.  My guess is that he ddn't dictate the amount of the contract or how to leverage RFA to get the best deal for the team or anything like that level of involvement.  The Hawks may have felt they really needed to resign JC because their star liked him but so what?  That doesn't make him culpable if they overpay.  He would have been fine if JC was resigned regardless of the contract specifics.  

[hawkman]

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Dude, Luka played like he was 350 and 2 sheets to the wind. He was moving so slow my wife asked what was up with him.

 

Both he and Jokic's dunks/dunk attempts were hilarious though. 

[AHF]

I read that Jalen Brown was the first All-Star in a decade to participate in the dunk contest.  Does that sound right?  Seems like we've gone from a bunch of All-Stars competing to starters to bench players to non-NBA players.  

Other than putting a bunch of money on the line I'm not sure there is anything to be done at this point.  Its too tarnished and broken unless and until a true star throws down the gauntlet and makes it enticing for his peers to join him.  (Like I could imagine prime Kobe or LeBron convincing a bunch of stars to join in for a big show.)

[AHF]

Also, it is kind of amazing that Ant got 3 FGA while KAT got 35 FGA.  That is interesting for two guys in the same locker room.  (Especially where Ant averages 26 compared to 22 for KAT.)

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I read that Jalen Brown was the first All-Star in a decade to participate in the dunk contest.  Does that sound right?  Seems like we've gone from a bunch of All-Stars competing to starters to bench players to non-NBA players.  

Other than putting a bunch of money on the line I'm not sure there is anything to be done at this point.  Its too tarnished and broken unless and until a true star throws down the gauntlet and makes it enticing for his peers to join him.  (Like I could imagine prime Kobe or LeBron convincing a bunch of stars to join in for a big show.)

Silver should change the rules that only All Stars can compete in the contest. Add to that, the fans can vote on which at large players they want to see participate. No more of the league selecting 4 randoms.

The price of entry in to the competition has to have some level of exclusivity to it.

[RedDawg#8]

To fix the game, fans in attendance should boo. Boo until the guys on the court get the message that the fans are ones being punished by their lack of effort. Stop rewarding these guys with praise when they don’t deserve it.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Ehhh, you guys would be the first to call out ownership and the front office if Trae asked out because they didn't acquiesce to what he wanted

I'm not that simple-minded.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, thecampster said:

Dude, Luka played like he was 350 and 2 sheets to the wind. He was moving so slow my wife asked what was up with him.

 

When he tossed it off the backboard and got hung by the front rim, it was hilarious.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

So:

(1) We don't know what he asked for.

(2) It isn't his job to make the calls on this stuff anyway.

Whether he has influence or not, the buck stops with Ressler and Schlenk on JC's extension.

 

My personal "talking out of my ass" guess is that he did have influence in saying he wanted JC signed to a fair deal.  Management was also high on JC at that time as well.  My guess is that he ddn't dictate the amount of the contract or how to leverage RFA to get the best deal for the team or anything like that level of involvement.  The Hawks may have felt they really needed to resign JC because their star liked him but so what?  That doesn't make him culpable if they overpay.  He would have been fine if JC was resigned regardless of the contract specifics.  

I think it’s a little safer than a wild ass guess to suggest that Trae has had a role in some of our key moves.  Could be major or minor.  Culpability could be the triggering word.  He’s culpable for his input and any pressure he put on the front office.  
Buck definitely stops with the owner and GM.  But we know this is the NBA where keeping stars happy is more of a priority than any sport.  I really believe Trae has a voice and some of our worst moves were done in part to make him happy.  But also with direct contact from him, his agent, or his dad.  
Trae is only culpable for his effort to influence a decision.  GM and owner are responsible for the decision.  

[AHF]

Using the JC example is a bad one since we could have kept him and kept Trae happy without overpaying him even if you assume that Trae was making it clear to the front office that he would be really upset if we didn’t keep JC.  Culpability is a wrong word to use.  The only “culpable” people for personnel moves are the ones who make those calls which is either the GM or the owner.

[Final_quest]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Using the JC example is a bad one since we could have kept him and kept Trae happy without overpaying him even if you assume that Trae was making it clear to the front office that he would be really upset if we didn’t keep JC.  Culpability is a wrong word to use.  The only “culpable” people for personnel moves are the ones who make those calls which is either the GM or the owner.

Not to split hairs, but every person is responsible for their actions.  In this star driven league players leverage their status to influence personnel decisions to the point where stars seem like they are the GM at times.

Thanasis is not a player any GM would ever put on a roster, but the MVP wants him on the team.  Stars decide if they want to leave a team and request a trade.  

There is nothing unusual about suggesting rumors are true that Trae wanted JC resigned.  He wanted Nate fired.  He wanted the Murray trade to go down.  How much power Trae has I’m not sure, but it’s not 0%.  So he is culpable for whatever leverage he applies.  That’s it.  Tony owns the final decision.