Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

Are we talking about taking him with the Sac pick?

[Mikey]

Pls god do not draft Zach Edey.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, h4wkfan said:

What makes Edey a better prospect than Jahlil Okafor offensively? where is okafor now? Pass on the big fella for me. 

Great question 

Different league:

Passing 

Rebounding

Movement off the ball

BBIQ

Screen setting 

Feel for the game

Drawing fouls

Awareness

Better:

Agility

Shooting

Okafor has better:

Footwork 

World class positioning in the post especially when he was chunky like Kevin Love

Different league:

Finishing 

Post skill

I don't think there has ever been a prospect as advanced in the post since Jah. Maybe ever. 

I am not sure. Once Jah lost so much weight, he lost his post effectiveness like Kevin Love but couldn't make up for it at all. 

[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Are we talking about taking him with the Sac pick?

Hawks, I am not sure we will have the SAC pick. Their playoffs odds are slipping 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, dalamchops said:

i still feel like he's too slow for the modern game

Moreso pace than speed. He's faster than Gradey d*ck. Pace is the big question mark that even I can't answer. That's the risk. Can he translate. I believe he will have to go to the gleague and we will have to wait and see. If he does, i think he's a potential offensive star. He's way athletic than Gobert was when he arrived. Massively faster than Gobert when he came to the NBA. 

Edited February 15 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

@h4wkfan 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--alonzo-mourning--jahlil-okafor--zion-williamson

Okafor plays in Spain now. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/jahlil-okafor-1.html

 

[NBASupes]

All of them translated when in their best form. The question is. Can he translate to the NBA style of play

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--alonzo-mourning--rudy-gobert--jahlil-okafor

[NBASupes]

I was partially convinced when I created the thread because the pace is a serious item. Gobert adjusted as did Andrew Bynum and Roy Hibbert but you got guys like Thomas Welsh, Bol Bol, Udoka Azubuike, and Vernon Carey Jr who did. It's gonna be interesting. I just haven't seen anyone this good fail in the NBA. Ever. And for it to be this damn good knowing how we spam 5s, this might be our get our of team building jail card we been praying for. 

Now that I seen some [] posters come and just valid my concerns aren't even as big a deal as I may think it is. I am now sold on Edey. He's my top player on the board. I haven't seen a center this offensively good ever in college ball. Jokic is better, sure but he didn't play college ball.

[Sothron]

The complaints about his defense are what people said about Jokic, Nurkic and Sabonis. All of them are good enough on defense in the modern NBA. I am not saying the criticism about Edey's foot speed is invalid just pointing out that other guys around that size are able to defend just fine.

Zach Edey is an elite inside paint player who could feast from our team spamming 5 and creating space for him on the interior. He's an excellent rebounder as well. 

I would rather take someone else because I think we need a guy like Reed or a big wing more but if Edey is there I wouldn't be upset if we took him.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

The complaints about his defense are what people said about Jokic, Nurkic and Sabonis. All of them are good enough on defense in the modern NBA. I am not saying the criticism about Edey's foot speed is invalid just pointing out that other guys around that size are able to defend just fine.

Zach Edey is an elite inside paint player who could feast from our team spamming 5 and creating space for him on the interior. He's an excellent rebounder as well. 

I would rather take someone else because I think we need a guy like Reed or a big wing more but if Edey is there I wouldn't be upset if we took him.

I definitely think he would need the gleague for at least 2 months to adjust to the pace but it wouldn't shock me to see his offensive rating being insanely high in SL. To be frank, it wouldn't shock me to see his defensive rating being good in SL. The NBA is a completely different ball game. 

[Sothron]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I definitely think he would need the gleague for at least 2 months to adjust to the pace but it wouldn't shock me to see his offensive rating being insanely high in SL. To be frank, it wouldn't shock me to see his defensive rating being good in SL. The NBA is a completely different ball game. 

I agree with you about him. I think if he got a coach that believed in him like Malone did with Jokic he could be a scary player in the NBA because his efficiency numbers are insane. You expect some of that to come down in the NBA but I can't see it falling off a cliff like some in this thread are expecting.

[NBASupes]

Just now, Sothron said:

I agree with you about him. I think if he got a coach that believed in him like Malone did with Jokic he could be a scary player in the NBA because his efficiency numbers are insane. You expect some of that to come down in the NBA but I can't see it falling off a cliff like some in this thread are expecting.

He has dominated college and his agility is really damn good. I don't see the fall. His offensive numbers are elite for the last 40 years. His brain is extremely impressive. He wins at an extreme rate. This isn't just a big for nothing guy. Yes, he will have a tough time with pace. That's not up for debate but so did Gobert and look at him now. 

 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--christian-laettner--alonzo-mourning--shaquille-o-neal--chris-webber

 

2000s

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--emeka-okafor--andrew-bogut--al-horford--joakim-noah--greg-oden

2010s

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--anthony-davis--joel-embiid--jahlil-okafor--zion-williamson

 

[Mikey]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I was partially convinced when I created the thread because the pace is a serious item. Gobert adjusted as did Andrew Bynum and Roy Hibbert but you got guys like Thomas Welsh, Bol Bol, Udoka Azubuike, and Vernon Carey Jr who did. It's gonna be interesting. I just haven't seen anyone this good fail in the NBA. Ever. And for it to be this damn good knowing how we spam 5s, this might be our get our of team building jail card we been praying for. 

Now that I seen some of the low IQ BBIQ posters come and just valid my concerns aren't even as big a deal as I may think it is. I am now sold on Edey. He's my top player on the board. I haven't seen a center this offensively good ever in college ball. Jokic is better, sure but he didn't play college ball.

He is going to be career backup. Not a bad thing at all but that is not someone you take in the lottery. The bigger than everybody archetype is not one to bet on

[Nash]

Bobi?

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

He is going to be career backup. Not a bad thing at all but that is not someone you take in the lottery. The bigger than everybody archetype is not one to bet on

Bro, I love you bro, do me a favor. Can you give details why at best he's going to be a career backup. I am interested to see your take as to why? 

We really haven't had anyone his archetype since Yao Ming. I am all ears

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Nash said:

Bobi?

He was a rich man's Bobi two years ago. He was wealthy man per10 Bobi last year. He's in a completely different league per10 today than Bobi at his best. This is just saying if he doesn't adjust to pace and per10 is the best he can become

[NBASupes]

I want to compare the last great center draft class plus the best center prospect in the modern era, Wemby to Edey 

 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--jalen-duren--walker-kessler--mark-williams--victor-wembanyama

Let's address the elephant in the room. We know Edey doesn't physically qualify for the NBA like these other four, especially Wemby does. So I am clearly saying this is just a comp of previous spots or current for Edey. 

Duren was the potential with the NBA traits flowing out of his ass. He wasn't a good college player but the talent was obvious as day. He didn't take no time adjusting to the NBA like Amare Stoudemire. Obviously he never had the scoring upside of Amare, he does excel at screen setting, he's not stiff on his screens and he explodes out of them with tremendous burst and attacks the roll very well and become a tremendous PnR and lob threat. At the defensive strengths and if he continues to develop, he has some star potential. 

Kessler was a very good player in college. Not a star but a true impact player. Elite PnR big in college and it instantly translated in the NBA. Also a smoove and physical screener. Finesse around the basket was an issue in college and still is in the NBA without the skills needed. Defensively, he was always promising and showed that in the NBA. The issue is, offense for him. With Conley, he wasn't a liability, in fact, he was the future. Without that vet PG, he's kinda fighting to remain a legit starter. That was the reason he fell outside of the lottery in his draft. 

Mark Williams always had a tremendous NBA skill set. The question with him is, could he handle the NBA pace and movement as he's more of a Samuel Dalembert type of defender. At first, he couldn't, looked like ass and went straight to Greensboro unlike the two above. But he went to Greensboro, dominated, and came to the NBA and was instantly a problem. He adjusted. He is an offensive and defensive rating menace and his ability to play drop coverage and protect the paint and rim is next level. His finishing and rebounding just causes issues and his BBIQ is impressive. Injuries have gotten Williams early as it did with OO and this is due to the biggest issue for guys like this and Wemby and that's the physical adjustment to the NBA which also Edey will have to go through as well plus, this is a marathon. 

Wemby as you can see had some of the worst stats but played pro previously. It was clear as day, Wemby was going to translate and change the game. He's a basketball prodigy and the NBA is made for him to break the dimensions of the game. So he's not really comparable to Any of these guys because he actually physically breaks the NBA. 

Edey is an offensive monster. 7'4, great base, strong, coordinate for his size, very good footwork, elite hands, soft touch, tremendous playing through contact and knows how to sell without going full Embiid, high BBIQ, tremendous movement skills that remind you of Duncan and Horford. Elite offensive metrics. Very good screen setter. Sniff screener but makes up for it with his BBIQ and once he gets crowded, he knows how to finish in space. Not explosive 4-7 ft away from the basket, has moments where he misses put backs and dunks and gets Capela boards. Does finish strong with some space. Flashes shooting pop like JC in private workouts but doesn't on college film. Elite FTA drawing machine. His ability to draw fouls is probably his best offensive skill.

The biggest question how do you use this in the modern NBA. No one really posts up anymore consistently outside of Denver and Sacramento. Only Atlanta spams 5s and that's 11 exclusively. So how do you use his offensive strengths because Mark Williams is a superior rim runner and finisher. He fits that role much better. Missi has some potential when he fully develops. Why give Edey a role and he has to be a drop big on D. That's fit if he's Gobert but in today's NBA, 5s are expected to be defensive minded and switch defenders. Teams are going away from Capela and Gobert and those are the exceptions due to their elite defensive abilities, especially Rudy who's an ATG defensively. I think that's a good question. Even though Edey has a tremendous defensive rating. He looks a mess in space. His defensive rating is excellent due to rim protection and paint protection.... Well, that's a good thing. All centers defensive minded centers need both. Capela has both. Gobert has both. OO only has rim protection. Many modern guys don't have both. Yes, I understand, they are switchable and that's where the NBA wants to go especially in the playoffs. But the best defenses tend to have guys who do those things very well. 

So for me, I see Edey as a clear boom or bust in the range of Kessler where I have fit questions in general. For the Hawks, I see him as a potential superstar. I believe, with Trae, we could see him dominate. I even see JJ having success with him. Atlanta is different as Trae uses the center as an extention of him on the court offensively. He uses the center more than any PG I can ever remember and defenses have to account for that but Edey with Trae might be way too much to account for and with his FTA drawing skills, I think him and Trae will give defenses nightmares and slow down the game even with the pace being high just due to their ability to draw fouls. 

[NBASupes]

So when it comes to Edey for the Hawks. 

I have him in Tier 2. 

Anyone knows my tiers, tier 2 is guys like Ja Morant, Cade Cunningham, J. Green, Barnes, Kuminga, Mobley, Mikal Bridges, Ayton,  Scoot, Ivey, Chet, Smith Jr, and Paolo. Basically, All Star. 

He's tier 4: In general, tier 4 is my: Decent Role player potential or raw with AS possibilities. He's not raw but he has serious pace questions which might as well make him raw. He's personally in my boom or bust category. Guys like Trae Young and James Wiseman have grace this category. Trae was a tier 3.5 guy and Wiseman, tier 4.

You take away the post ups, you basically take away the FTA to a degree which is his best skill. You kinda nuetuer him. He is a very good drop defender but teams are going away from that. Even the Hawks. I personally think they should go back to it. Currently look like shit trying to switch but Clinty Poo is kinda washed. We just aren't good at that anymore either.  

Translating is key and clearly, Atlanta has to bet on the person will to improve but if he adjust, that's a 28ppg, 13 rpg, elite defensive and offensive rating superstar who can't be stopped and teams have to scheme like crazy and it will force teams to not double Trae. Yeah, to me, he's our get out of jail card that we blew with Giannis. Thanks Ferry!

For me, he's player #1. When I see something that could work, I drill in and see if it really could work. I think this could. It's on Edey. He's gonna have to do the work. He already did to a degree. I got out of the 2nd round bubble and I didn't even put him in the, I'll give this guy a chance slot but I am not expecting much. Nope, I legit vouched for him.

Guys like this don't fall of trees. I haven't seen a big this offensively productive outside of Zion in the last 40 years and Zion was different. He was like a mix of Shaq, Rodney Rogers, and Barkley. Skill, strength, and insane generational athleticism. He felt like a cheat code. This is more BBIQ, post skill, feel, movement, size, and power. I haven't seen this combination since Yao Ming. 

[NBASupes]

I saw this post on RealGM from a Blazers fan

Quote

This, right here, sums up what I think.

 

I see some Brad Daughterty in the way Clingan moves. Good touch around the rim and good potential for two way play. Strong legs and decent hips that'll make him difficult to stop. Maybe that makes him a 'super-Zubac' in today's era but he'll be useful to teams like Kessler and Gobert are, nonetheless.

 

 

Edey is the perfect bench big with potential to be a good starter. Since you're presumably a Blazer fan, he fits what Enes Kanter was for Portland except with better defense and he also will fill the role Robert Williams III was supposed to.

 

I won't bet everything on him being 'the next Jokic' but I do think it's funny some of the criticisms thrown at Jokic's direction prior to the draft describe Edey to a tee. I don't think he'll hit that but just like how Jokic becomes akin to what Sabonis was supposed to have been (ie. a David Robinson tier player who could've helped secure 2-3 rings), I could see Edey becoming what Yao Ming was supposed to become.

 

****************************

 

On that note, my secret here for finding decent 'traditional centers' is......if, in the three point era, they averaged 14/8.4 in 28 minutes (Shaq's FR minutes) as Freshmen centers on 55-65% FG%?

 

They're so far ahead of the curve as Freshman that they turn out to be good quality NBA centers, in any era. Practically every traditional center who has put up these freshman numbers haven't failed. At all.

 

Edey and Clingan match this threshold. So did Duren and Kessler.

 

DeAndre Ayton, Robert Williams III, and Wendall Carter Jr., as well.

 

Of course, that list is currently shorter than the other list of names that qualify:

 

Embiid, Cousins, Shaq, Robinson, Oden, Hakeem, Ralph Sampson.

 

 

So, at worst, you get a starting center/good back up due to how advanced they are as a freshman big. At best, you get an All-Star center.

I really believe this but if the Hawks take Edey and stick with Trae because that's the only way this will work, I wouldn't be shocked if Edey ended up with multiple MVPs and maybe Trae ends up with one or more as well.

[thecampster]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:53 PM, NBASupes said:

Zach Edey Conumdum

I usually don't do threads on a specific college kid outside of Zion Williamson that aren't Hawks. But this kid is different. What if I told you this kid's 22 years old. He's elite around the rim, he can rebound at an elite level, he has good agility for his size who is 7'4 300 pounds and he can protect the paint and the rim at a decent level and he's completely disciplined on D. This is the story of the likely two time CPOY, Zach Edey. 

Zach Edey scores a lot of points, and he does so with ridiculous efficiency. His 45.1 points per 100 possessions number is outrageous, topping what the likes of Trae Young and Zion Williamson did during their pre-draft seasons. Most of his work is done inside. Per Synergy, he’s converting 75.4% of his shots around the basket in the halfcourt, a strong mark for a center prospect.

The issue is he's the most polarizing prospect in the NBA. My impact rates him at 10 wins but if he translates which it's not expecting has him at a per10. If he translates, he's per36 and he compares favorably to Yao Ming. His defensive projection is +0 which isn't good for a modern-day center. Back in the day, this was fine but not anymore. +5 is seen as the min for a center and teams want +10. +15 are hard to find and only Gobert is +20 for the modern NBA. Is he athlete enough, while his improvement agility-wise raised his profile massively, he's still slow for an NBA center and he's of no use in transition. The other negative is transition defense which is already bad for us due to Trae being even worse with Edey and can he play in today's NBA with the pace and the required movements of today's game? 

Also, he needs to be your #1 option or play in an offense that spams centers. It's unlikely any team will make him a #1 option so the best fits are Denver and SAC which are run via Jokic and Sabonis so he will feel comfortable. As far as spam centers, that honor goes to the king of spamming 5s, Mr. Trae Young. Because of this, his per36 is more likely than elsewhere. This is massive for these teams and his evaluation should be elevated for these three teams. 

What is it that makes Edey good? As I said, his per10 says he's a better Boban and should crush per36 but is a 10 MPG player. His per36 says he's the best offensive scoring big in the last 40 years in college basketball. What makes him so good? Hands, touch around the basket, ability to score an easy basket in traffic, movement skills, screening, length and using his length with high BBIQ, Elite FT drawing skills comparable to Alonzo Mourning, great feel for the game, high BBIQ, good passer but not a playmaker, he's a great roller and understands spacing for the roll like Clint. Offensively, this might be one of the best prospects in the last 40 years at this stage on offense. Sometimes they develop into this in time in the NBA but as a prospect, it's been a long time since we got a polished offensive prospect. 

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--hakeem-olajuwon--alonzo-mourning--shaquille-o-neal--tim-duncan

 My impact grades him at 10 wins but if he translates, he's at 45 wins which is equal to Capela in our ECF year when his impact was top tier. 

I am truly in a strange place with Edey. He has the making of a top 15 NBA player but he also can be playing Bruno's role for the next 10 NBA seasons. So much just depends on where he lands. If there was a Giannis or Gobert in this class as it's comparable to 2013, Edey is my bet for if there was an MVP in this class, who would it be. I have Sheppard and Edey as those two guys in five seasons if they land in the right spots. Edey is still 4th tier on my BB because he's a boom-or-bust guy. That said, the reason I created this thread is because if there was a player that could elevate Trae, I think this is the kid. 

My impact grades have a love/hate with prospects Haliburton, Brunson, Tyler Ulis, Trae Young, Kendall Marshall, S. Cooper, Jax. Hayes, Edey, Bassey, and a lot of NBA centers. So PGs and Cs who don't meet the reqs for what a center or PG has to have are boom or bust guys. There is NO in-between.  

I have put a serious Hawks BB but Edey is my top prospect for the Hawks. His offensive value if he hits is so massive, it would change Trae's projection and remove his off-ball responsibilities which is basic +10 added to Trae offensively. That's a massive change. 

Hawks BB 2024 

1. Edey - https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey
2. Riscasher - https://tankathon.com/players/zaccharie-risacher
3. Sheppard - https://tankathon.com/players/cody-williams
4. Walter - https://tankathon.com/players/ja-kobe-walter
5. Flip - https://tankathon.com/players/kyle-filipowski
6. Clingan - https://tankathon.com/players/donovan-clingan
7. Missi - https://tankathon.com/players/yves-missi - I think he needs to return back to college but his upside is there. 
8. Knecht - https://tankathon.com/players/dalton-knecht
9. T. Shannon
10. Dunn - https://tankathon.com/players/ryan-dunn

Cam Reddish is a low-floor, high-ceiling prospect we took with hopes we can get him to superstardom. 5 years later, he's on a vet min contract and might have to learn Chinese next year. We took a massive risk drafting Trae Young. Someone who didn't have the measurements many NBA teams find useful. He not only translated but he's been a top-30 player for years and he still has upside. So a big part of this is on the player but he needs a good fit as well. Who knows how good Cam would be today if he started his career with LeBron? 

Here are some short films on Edey

 

 

2023 cuts

 

 

 

" https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10108174-2024-nba-mock-draft-full-2-round-predictions-post-trade-deadline

Previous mock draft spot: No. 42

School/team: Purdue

Nationality: Canadian

Position: C

Age: 21, Senior

Size: 7'4", 300 lbs

The scouting on Zach Edey feels mostly complete. Teams have to ask how valuable a 7'4" finisher and post scorer is in today's world for their respective lineups.

Some may see a starter with physical tools, footwork and touch that are too advantageous to deem outdated. Others may question if there is any upside to a center who can't play the 4, handle, shoot or switch out defensively.

Edey's draft range remains wide and dependent on specific teams looking to fill a need."
 

 

IMHO, #35 overall is way too low for Edey but he's currently projecting  low 1st, early 2nd due to an inability to play on the perimeter on defense, inability to switch.  I get it but any coach worth his salt can game plan for that. If you can honestly get him with the Sac pick in the low 20's I think its a steal.

 

Edited February 16 by thecampster