Zach Edey Conundrum - Could Edey be the next great Atlanta Hawk or is he the next Cam Reddish

[JayBirdHawk]

26 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If you can honestly get him with the Sac pick in the low 20's I think its a steal.

That makes sense. Supes seems to be OK taking him with our top 10 pick?????

[Spud2nique]

20 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Al Horford or Tim Duncan like his elite feel for the game

 

[REHawksFan]

Give me Shepperd with the Hawks pick and Edey with the Sacto pick and I'll take my chances. Between them, Kobe, and Gueye the SkyHawks will ROLL baby!!  

 

Spoiler

Doesn't matter who we pick, Quin ain't playin em

 

[Spud2nique]

19 hours ago, NBASupes said:

pushing my chips

You lost all of it on Horford and Mayo. This casino doesn’t accept Monopoly money  

[thecampster]

15 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hawks, I am not sure we will have the SAC pick. Their playoffs odds are slipping 

Current order is 18, full 2 games ahead of the 14 slot. 

Also remember additional draft capital may come our way pre-draft through trades.

[NBASupes]

45 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That makes sense. Supes seems to be OK taking him with our top 10 pick?????

I am. There is risk involved but that's pretty much the case with everyone in this draft outside of Risacher.  No one in this class outside of Risacher is NBA ready yet. 

[AHF]

14 hours ago, Sothron said:

The complaints about his defense are what people said about Jokic, Nurkic and Sabonis. All of them are good enough on defense in the modern NBA. I am not saying the criticism about Edey's foot speed is invalid just pointing out that other guys around that size are able to defend just fine.

Zach Edey is an elite inside paint player who could feast from our team spamming 5 and creating space for him on the interior. He's an excellent rebounder as well. 

I would rather take someone else because I think we need a guy like Reed or a big wing more but if Edey is there I wouldn't be upset if we took him.

I haven't watched him so I have no opinion on him one way or another.  One question though is around the size thing.  There aren't many players who have been 7'4'' in NBA history.  Today's Sabonis is 6'10'' a size for which they are hundreds of successful players but his dad was a real outlier at 7'3'' and was a generational talent (who came to the US too late in his career) with his mobility, touch, and skill at that size.  Jokic is 6'11'' which is quite common.  Nurkic as a 7'0'' player becomes somewhat more scarce but still a good number of guys who have had long and successful NBA careers at that height.

I guess I just don't really think of guys who are 6'11'' or 7'0'' as being in the same category as guys like Bol who are significantly taller many of whom who seem to struggle more with their size.

7'4'' is really rare.  I can think of Rik Smits who made it work by being quite athletic for his size.  Yao Ming was even bigger and the only thing that really held him back was health as he was very coordinated and mobile for his size.  Arvydas was a unicorn as we discussed (nobody had reservations about him - just a matter of him being eligible and available to play).

There is no doubt in my mind that a guy like Edey (if he delivers like Supes and some others suggest he could) would bring something to the table that CC and OO cannot.  I would also guess if he had the tools of an Arvydas or Smits that he would be a no brainer lottery pick so that he probably doesn't have those gifts.  Who would you guys think are the comps for Edey just from a physical tool standpoint (mobility, strength, etc.)?  (And I'm not talking about 6'11'' or 7'0'' guys but the guys who are the true outliers at 7'3'' or higher.)

[NBASupes]

43 minutes ago, AHF said:

I haven't watched him so I have no opinion on him one way or another.  One question though is around the size thing.  There aren't many players who have been 7'4'' in NBA history.  Today's Sabonis is 6'10'' a size for which they are hundreds of successful players but his dad was a real outlier at 7'3'' and was a generational talent (who came to the US too late in his career) with his mobility, touch, and skill at that size.  Jokic is 6'11'' which is quite common.  Nurkic as a 7'0'' player becomes somewhat more scarce but still a good number of guys who have had long and successful NBA careers at that height.

I guess I just don't really think of guys who are 6'11'' or 7'0'' as being in the same category as guys like Bol who are significantly taller many of whom who seem to struggle more with their size.

7'4'' is really rare.  I can think of Rik Smits who made it work by being quite athletic for his size.  Yao Ming was even bigger and the only thing that really held him back was health as he was very coordinated and mobile for his size.  Arvydas was a unicorn as we discussed (nobody had reservations about him - just a matter of him being eligible and available to play).

There is no doubt in my mind that a guy like Edey (if he delivers like Supes and some others suggest he could) would bring something to the table that CC and OO cannot.  I would also guess if he had the tools of an Arvydas or Smits that he would be a no brainer lottery pick so that he probably doesn't have those gifts.  Who would you guys think are the comps for Edey just from a physical tool standpoint (mobility, strength, etc.)?  (And I'm not talking about 6'11'' or 7'0'' guys but the guys who are the true outliers at 7'3'' or higher.)

Yao Ming is his best comp but it's not a match. 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I haven't watched him so I have no opinion on him one way or another.  One question though is around the size thing.  There aren't many players who have been 7'4'' in NBA history.  Today's Sabonis is 6'10'' a size for which they are hundreds of successful players but his dad was a real outlier at 7'3'' and was a generational talent (who came to the US too late in his career) with his mobility, touch, and skill at that size.  Jokic is 6'11'' which is quite common.  Nurkic as a 7'0'' player becomes somewhat more scarce but still a good number of guys who have had long and successful NBA careers at that height.

I guess I just don't really think of guys who are 6'11'' or 7'0'' as being in the same category as guys like Bol who are significantly taller many of whom who seem to struggle more with their size.

7'4'' is really rare.  I can think of Rik Smits who made it work by being quite athletic for his size.  Yao Ming was even bigger and the only thing that really held him back was health as he was very coordinated and mobile for his size.  Arvydas was a unicorn as we discussed (nobody had reservations about him - just a matter of him being eligible and available to play).

There is no doubt in my mind that a guy like Edey (if he delivers like Supes and some others suggest he could) would bring something to the table that CC and OO cannot.  I would also guess if he had the tools of an Arvydas or Smits that he would be a no brainer lottery pick so that he probably doesn't have those gifts.  Who would you guys think are the comps for Edey just from a physical tool standpoint (mobility, strength, etc.)?  (And I'm not talking about 6'11'' or 7'0'' guys but the guys who are the true outliers at 7'3'' or higher.)

He is like Yao Ming before the injuries. He doesn't have elite passing but he's a good passer for his position.

He is not A. Sabonis who was a legit unicorn of unicorn in his younger playing days. Rik Smits...he has better touch around the rim and is a better rebounder than Smits but he's not the shot blocker Smits was. He still blocks shots well enough with a 7'7" wingspan. He does have the high basketball IQ that Smits had.

Yao Ming pre injuries is the best comparison but it isn't an exact match.

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

He is like Yao Ming before the injuries. He doesn't have elite passing but he's a good passer for his position.

He is not A. Sabonis who was a legit unicorn of unicorn in his younger playing days. Rik Smits...he has better touch around the rim and is a better rebounder than Smits but he's not the shot blocker Smits was. He still blocks shots well enough with a 7'7" wingspan. He does have the high basketball IQ that Smits had.

Yao Ming pre injuries is the best comparison but it isn't an exact match.

Yep, doesn't have Yao elite footwork either so i doubt he will ever be the post player Yao was. But he does have two skills that Yao doesn't that's better. His feel for the game is elite for movement. Similar to Duncan and Horford. He also is one of the best FTA drawers since Alonzo Mourning as a college prospect 

 

His wingspan is 7'10.5 

He got measured at the NBA combine 

Edited February 16 by NBASupes

[Mikey]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Bro, I love you bro, do me a favor. Can you give details why at best he's going to be a career backup. I am interested to see your take as to why? 

We really haven't had anyone his archetype since Yao Ming. I am all ears

I don't think he has the defensive versatility to be a starter/play starter minutes in this league. He can only play in one scheme (deep drop) and that scheme has shown time and time again to be problematic with the level of talent in ball handlers in todays nba. Now when you play that periodically as a backup he can thrive imo. Offensively he is a great screen setter and hes good in post ups but teams aren't living in the post anymore and spamming post ups. Having a guy clog the paint just isn't a thing anymore. This season no team has more than 8.5 post ups per game. The league has just moved away from this kind of player. He will be good in spotty minutes but 30+ mpg I don't see it.

And like I said. Being a career backup is not a bad thing at all. Getting a solid backup big between picks 16-30+ would be a good outcome for every team

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

He is like Yao Ming before the injuries. He doesn't have elite passing but he's a good passer for his position.

He is not A. Sabonis who was a legit unicorn of unicorn in his younger playing days. Rik Smits...he has better touch around the rim and is a better rebounder than Smits but he's not the shot blocker Smits was. He still blocks shots well enough with a 7'7" wingspan. He does have the high basketball IQ that Smits had.

Yao Ming pre injuries is the best comparison but it isn't an exact match.

The Dunkin Dutchman could definitely get off the floor.  

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

His wingspan is 7'10.5  

I saw that.  Pretty eye catching.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I don't think he has the defensive versatility to be a starter/play starter minutes in this league. He can only play in one scheme (deep drop) and that scheme has shown time and time again to be problematic with the level of talent in ball handlers in todays nba. Now when you play that periodically as a backup he can thrive imo. Offensively he is a great screen setter and hes good in post ups but teams aren't living in the post anymore and spamming post ups. Having a guy clog the paint just isn't a thing anymore. This season no team has more than 8.5 post ups per game. The league has just moved away from this kind of player. He will be good in spotty minutes but 30+ mpg I don't see it.

And like I said. Being a career backup is not a bad thing at all. Getting a solid backup big between picks 16-30+ would be a good outcome for every team

He doesn't have defensive versatility for starters so that point isn't a bad one but he can rim protect and paint protect and while NBA teams are valuing paint protection a lot less than rim protection, teams with Trae Young need a lot of paint protection to keep the randoms from spamming the paint. I do agree, teams are going away from drop coverage bigs. That's a fact. They want rim protector who can switch and provide good size and can be versatile. The 5 has become a defensive position. 

Quote

Now when you play that periodically as a backup he can thrive imo. 

Okay, I agree on this part for anywhere he lands especially if he can adjust to the pace of the game. 

Quote

Offensively he is a great screen setter and hes good in post ups but teams aren't living in the post anymore and spamming post ups. Having a guy clog the paint just isn't a thing anymore. This season no team has more than 8.5 post ups per game. The league has just moved away from this kind of player. He will be good in spotty minutes but 30+ mpg I don't see it.

He's also an elite PnR finisher with an elite feel for movement and drawing contact.

I agree but the last part on the minutes, i believe if he can adjust to the pace, 30+ mpg is possible. It's if the team will allow it or want it is a different question. 

Quote

And like I said. Being a career backup is not a bad thing at all. Getting a solid backup big between picks 16-30+ would be a good outcome for every team

I agree. 

Now where we differ. 

We aren't most teams. We spam the 5 primarily due to Trae who uses the center as an extention of himself. We suck at modern defense, primarily due to Trae and his lack of measurements and physical abilities defensively. So the drop isn't a bad option for us. 

So we have one player who's worth 50 wins on offense and we can give him a player that can add 10 wins on offense and maybe even add 5 on defense for Trae and turn him into a legit MVP candidate, why should we pass on this guy?

I get why he's not worth it for others in the lottery because they would have to change everything they are doing but we don't. We can continue doing what we generally have always done. He fits what we do. 

[NBASupes]

At some point, we gotta start looking at ourselves like the Atlanta Traes and not the Atlanta Hawks. Our identity is Trae Young. Our engine is Trae Young. Our catalyst is Trae Young. 

Miami has Heat Culture

And the Knicks are Thibs style. 

They have an identity and players who might not be shit elsewhere are stars with Thibs and his scheme and style. 

Heat culture is real. Jaime Jaquez was a tier 5 player in my rank but a 3.5 tier if he landed in Miami or NY. He landed in Miami. Guess what, he's a 81 in 2k and a stud overall. If he landed in Atlanta, 71 overall and 25 mins played all season. Just not the scheme or style for him. Edey is a MVP candidate with Trae if he can adjust to the pace of the NBA. He's my top prospect for the Hawks. I don't even know a prospect that's close to this for the Hawks in the last 20 years outside of Luka and he might be better for us as we are currently the Traes. 

Edited February 16 by NBASupes

[REHawksFan]

39 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He fits

I haven't seen the guy play so don't have any real opinion on him.  BUT, if this is true, even if he doesn't translate as great as you think he will, sign me up.  I used to be a big believer in just taking the best players and making the fit work.  But when you have a Trae Young with his unique abilities and deficiencies, FIT seems like it's of the utmost import.  

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

I haven't seen the guy play so don't have any real opinion on him.  BUT, if this is true, even if he doesn't translate as great as you think he will, sign me up.  I used to be a big believer in just taking the best players and making the fit work.  But when you have a Trae Young with his unique abilities and deficiencies, FIT seems like it's of the utmost import.  

As much as I love KAT, he's not much of a movement specialist. If he's not involved, he drifts. Of course, with Trae, he's likely always involved but the difference is when Trae is doubled. Edey is always a threat like Horford or Duncan because mentally, he's always adjusting to the action on the court mentally. KAT will literally stand around unless Coach has to change the plan and say do this when Trae is trapped here. Edey naturally adjusts. Those things mean doubling Trae is a no go. That massively improves Trae impact. 

[Mikey]

47 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He doesn't have defensive versatility for starters so that point isn't a bad one but he can rim protect and paint protect and while NBA teams are valuing paint protection a lot less than rim protection, teams with Trae Young need a lot of paint protection to keep the randoms from spamming the paint. I do agree, teams are going away from drop coverage bigs. That's a fact. They want rim protector who can switch and provide good size and can be versatile. The 5 has become a defensive position. 

Okay, I agree on this part for anywhere he lands especially if he can adjust to the pace of the game. 

He's also an elite PnR finisher with an elite feel for movement and drawing contact.

I agree but the last part on the minutes, i believe if he can adjust to the pace, 30+ mpg is possible. It's if the team will allow it or want it is a different question. 

I agree. 

Now where we differ. 

We aren't most teams. We spam the 5 primarily due to Trae who uses the center as an extention of himself. We suck at modern defense, primarily due to Trae and his lack of measurements and physical abilities defensively. So the drop isn't a bad option for us. 

So we have one player who's worth 50 wins on offense and we can give him a player that can add 10 wins on offense and maybe even add 5 on defense for Trae and turn him into a legit MVP candidate, why should we pass on this guy?

I get why he's not worth it for others in the lottery because they would have to change everything they are doing but we don't. We can continue doing what we generally have always done. He fits what we do. 

I guess it really comes to where they draft him. I think hawks would be 10th ish pick if season ended today and personally I don't think he should go that high. If they took him with Kings pick i could talk myself into it. I also still have some hesitancy that this will be a trae team in a couple months. Likely will be but lets see how it plays out. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Mikey said:

I guess it really comes to where they draft him. I think hawks would be 10th ish pick if season ended today and personally I don't think he should go that high. If they took him with Kings pick i could talk myself into it. I also still have some hesitancy that this will be a trae team in a couple months. Likely will be but lets see how it plays out. 

I really don't care where they get him, just get him. This is like Giannis. Don't overthink obvious shit

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Yep, doesn't have Yao elite footwork either so i doubt he will ever be the post player Yao was. But he does have two skills that Yao doesn't that's better. His feel for the game is elite for movement. Similar to Duncan and Horford. He also is one of the best FTA drawers since Alonzo Mourning as a college prospect 

 

His wingspan is 7'10.5 

He got measured at the NBA combine 

whoa, really? Last I had heard it was at 7'7" but if that's the official measurement he's even longer than I thought. That's a definite positive.