OO future with Atlanta??

[Diesel]

38 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wish Gueye was available so we have a better idea about him.  The fact that OO is still a bit of a mystery, this many years in, is bothersome.  My hope is we're looking to upgrade the roster, particularly the frontcourt, however we can.

When he is finally ready to go, Gueye is going to change things around here. 

[NBASupes]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If we were fortunate enough to be in position to get Alexandre Sarr...   The purpose wouldn't have anything to do with OO except, he's a better player.   And He's 7 foot. 

I felt the same way about Mark Williams last year.   There are other guys 7 footers who are coming out who are just better players.   They have more potential and really, they will bypass OO quickly in terms of their development.  The thought has been why haven't we got Trae a legit big man to play with?  Well, JJ is cool but he's a slashing 4 who can hit from outside.. but when we talk about the Clint Capela 2.0... the better model that can finish at the rim, run the PNR just as well, and can defend.. that's what is in this draft and he's 7 foot tall. 

 

 

Sarr not even like that. His game is more like Gueye and Gueye is way better at big man actions than Sarr is. 

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don't get that at all.  With Pierce and McMillan, there was no skill level development going on.  You don't have to get NBA minutes to get development.  DeAndre Hunter was getting minutes under those two, but he wasn't getting any development.  He's had right at a year under Quin now, and Quin has seemingly unlocked him.  Jalen Johnson got no development under Nate.  

Since we're talking about OO, you can't say the same thing for OO and Nate that you can say about JJ and Nate.   OO played under Nate.  Had all the time in the world to develop against pro competition.  AJ would have been the same way.  What we saw was that OO just didn't do much to reach his potential.  You still don't see a lot of OO working out in the Off season.  Guys like Banchero, Duren are doing things to get better in the offseason.  OO looks like he spent the offseason playing PS5. 

You can blame Nate for JJ.. but not for OO. 

And like it or not, Quin came here with a mandate to play JJ.   That's what the whole fight was about.   So he's playing JJ.  But he only plays AJ, Seth, and Bufkin when he has to.

 

 

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Sarr not even like that. His game is more like Gueye and Gueye is way better at big man actions than Sarr is. 

This may be true.   However, the big man of the future will be that way.  We are not going back to the Plodding Big Centers like Edey.  A few years ago, there was a Center sized guy named Luka Garza.  He's still in the league.  He played for Iowa.  He was a 25/9 guy in college.  Had his number retired. The guy barely made it on a Pro team.  The issue is.. the new Center will have to be skilled and play at the pace of the NBA.    OO is able to play at the pace but there are bigger guys coming in who can do both.   Sarr is one of those. 

 

 

[bird_dirt]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:36 PM, KB21 said:

If your goal is to get a 7-footer, then I'd be more worried about the detriment the inability to move well enough to guard on the perimeter would have on the team.  

My goal would be to have a 7 footer available for situations. They don’t have to be a starter, or at least not an every game starter, unless they prove themselves to be more consistently impactful than OO or other options. 
When we go up against Jokic or Embiid, I want someone who can get in there and slow them down for 20+ minutes and give six fouls if necessary. They wouldn’t be needed when we play Miami or Golden State. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, bird_dirt said:

My goal would be to have a 7 footer available for situations. They don’t have to be a starter, or at least not an every game starter, unless they prove themselves to be more consistently impactful than OO or other options. 
When we go up against Jokic or Embiid, I want someone who can get in there and slow them down for 20+ minutes and give six fouls if necessary. They wouldn’t be needed when we play Miami or Golden State. 

Jokic and Embiid are unicorns.  Good luck finding anyone that can slow them down one on one.  

[bird_dirt]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Jokic and Embiid are unicorns.  Good luck finding anyone that can slow them down one on one.  

I’m just saying slow them down more than OO could on his own. Not stop them. 
It’s more about having a decent big body to throw out there when going up against other big bodies that are too much for OO to handle for a whole game to keep them in check, whether they’re a unicorn or a Steven Adams. 
Speed bumps, not stop signs. Don’t give them permission to dominate for 36 minutes. 

[Final_quest]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:27 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

But how many minutes as a starting unit have they actually played together?

Heck how many minutes have they played together, period?

Actually part of the problem is all of them staying healthy.  

Bey has good numbers as a bench player.  I’m not convinced our frontline is “fixed” with one more good player off the bench.  

Someone on our frontline needs to be top ten for their position.  How else do we compete with the best?

[AHF]

Staying healthy has been an issue for development of a lot of our guys as well.  Think of the extended down time for OO and Hunter, for example.  Both have demonstrably added things over time but there hasn’t been too many big stretches where they could just own a bigger role before they were back out and coming back on limited minutes, etc.

[KB21]

Going up against 7 footers still isn't the issue it is made out to be.  OO does just as well against them as other 7 footers do.  

[AHF]

48 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Going up against 7 footers still isn't the issue it is made out to be.  OO does just as well against them as other 7 footers do.  

He does have games where he gets outright abused by guys.  The first quarter of the December 16 game against Cleveland was a really rough one where OO started and Jarrett Allen put up 17 points in the first 12 minutes of the game.  OO offered zero resistance.  It hurt to watch.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

He does have games where he gets outright abused by guys.  The first quarter of the December 16 game against Cleveland was a really rough one where OO started and Jarrett Allen put up 17 points in the first 12 minutes of the game.  OO offered zero resistance.  It hurt to watch.

Isolated event.  I'm not going to move away from a guy who is probably the 2nd best defender on the team just because "this one time at band camp" happened.  

[Spud2nique]

I’d like to believe that the O that bottled up Giannis and Embiid in 2021 is still somewhere in there. He’s a big stage guy like Trae he shows up in the big moments of the playoffs and will continue to do so..

But we need him to play well in the regular season so we aren’t in 10th place so he can exhibit the clutch essence in the playoffs.

I still love O but I’m upset with his development it should be quicker imo.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Going up against 7 footers still isn't the issue it is made out to be.  OO does just as well against them as other 7 footers do.  

OO's problem is recognition.   He does get manhandled by some bigs... stop the cap.    However, his main problem is recognition.   He jumps out to cover men on the perimeter and he just stays out there.   He leaves the middle wide open.  Even though he hasn't played as much and has never been a focus, Bruno has come in and done things better than OO.   Getting back on defense is one.  The other is being aggressive in the middle.   OO has a far higher ceiling than Bruno.. but he doesn't do the small things like Box out... get back to protect the lane and the rim. etc.  OO is a great switch defender.  He's very good at defending small players... but he needs to focus on being the interior defender that we need.   JJ too.

 

[Diesel]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

He does have games where he gets outright abused by guys.  The first quarter of the December 16 game against Cleveland was a really rough one where OO started and Jarrett Allen put up 17 points in the first 12 minutes of the game.  OO offered zero resistance.  It hurt to watch.

For exhibit B... can we talk about how he got torched by Jonathan Kuminga?  HE and JJ looked like Keystone cops that game. 

For exhibit C... can we talk about how Derrick Lively controlled the paint when Luka was torching us for 73?

Everytime we think he's ready to replace CC... he comes out there and just let some half ranked C dominate.  When we played Boston a few weeks ago.. OO played well.. but he did nothing.. Nothing to stop KP.  He had me believe KP should be an allstar.  I don't think CC would have conceded the inside to KP so easily. 

 

 

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’d like to believe that the O that bottled up Giannis and Embiid in 2021 is still somewhere in there. He’s a big stage guy like Trae he shows up in the big moments of the playoffs and will continue to do so..

But we need him to play well in the regular season so we aren’t in 10th place so he can exhibit the clutch essence in the playoffs.

I still love O but I’m upset with his development it should be quicker imo.

Let me defend a bit here....

The development of big men takes time.   Not every big is going to come out like Lively, Chet, and Victor.   Those guys have been groomed for this moment.  Some of them will take longer because of their past and OO is one of those.. but he has to work.  That's my one issue with OO.. he hasn't put in enough work IMO.   He was handed being a rotation guy right away even though he came in off of injury and didn't spend a lot of time in college.  Guys like him, Duren,  and Wiseman are going to take some time to develop.. 

 

[Spud2nique]

33 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Wiseman

No he’s done, he stinks  

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

No he’s done, he stinks  

I still believe that given the right tutoring he will be Ok.  He's a turd sandwich for sure... but he has the potential to be something better. 

 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

turd sandwich

first time I heard that.. possibly in my life I may have to borrow this one  

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

first time I heard that.. possibly in my life I may have to borrow this one  

You have never watched Major Payne?