Moderators macdaddy Posted February 27 Moderators Report Share Posted February 27 I'm skeptical they are coming. Wemby is amazing but kind of a unicorn. Folks thought Mo Bamba and Bol Bol were going to be what Wemby and Chet are. Jokic is the best player in the world. Jokic and Embiid have skill and bulk. Yeah i don't know what the future is for OO though. He is undersized for sure. You see signs though that he can outwork bigger guys for rebounds sometimes. Honestly Bey, Jalen, OO and even DJ crashing the defensive glass has shown how important it is to have strong rebounders rather than just relying on one 7 footer to grab them all. I don't know what my point is exactly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted February 27 Moderators Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, KB21 said: I think this is a case of something I've noticed for years, even when Al was playing center. We have Hawks fans who are convinced that you have to be 7'0" to be a center with little attention paid to how the player actually plays. We are a much better team with OO on the floor than with him off the floor. That's a fact that is proven with the stats. The offense flows much better with him on the floor, and we are much more versatile on defense with him. The centers in the NBA that can legitimately give him trouble can be counted on one hand. We should not sacrifice movement ability and versatility for height. If you can find a 7-footer that can move well, switch, hedge and recover as well as rim protect, then by all means get him. There aren't many "traditional sized" centers that can actually do that. This is why I really wanted to see an extended period with him starting. Career to date, he is playing against bench players a lot of the time and we can "hide" him by using CC for a lot of the minutes against the biggest centers. I wanted to see how the numbers would sustain with him playing against opposing starters for the majority of his minutes every game. There is no doubt we have been much better with him on the floor but I'm not 100% convinced that what we've seen would translate into a starter role. Would have been nice to see. Unfortunately, injury risk is part of the package with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Diesel said: I agree that he has a great contract. I disagree that he's starter quality. @kg01 called him a well to do Taj Gibson. Unless he shows more, that's exactly who he is. Good defender. Great finisher. Good rebounder. And now can shoot. What more do you want from a starter? Every time he starts he shows how good he is and his versatility on both ends opens so much for the team 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, Mikey said: Good defender. Great finisher. Good rebounder. And now can shoot. What more do you want from a starter? Every time he starts he shows how good he is and his versatility on both ends opens so much for the team Particularly when he is paired with Johnson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 21 minutes ago, Mikey said: Good defender. Great finisher. Good rebounder. And now can shoot. What more do you want from a starter? Every time he starts he shows how good he is and his versatility on both ends opens so much for the team He doesn't really fit well with Trae. He's just an average helper. Doesn't really run the PnR all that well. He's good but Idk if he fits Trae. He's better as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 27 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 27 49 minutes ago, macdaddy said: I'm skeptical they are coming. Wemby is amazing but kind of a unicorn. Folks thought Mo Bamba and Bol Bol were going to be what Wemby and Chet are. Jokic is the best player in the world. Jokic and Embiid have skill and bulk. Yeah i don't know what the future is for OO though. He is undersized for sure. You see signs though that he can outwork bigger guys for rebounds sometimes. Honestly Bey, Jalen, OO and even DJ crashing the defensive glass has shown how important it is to have strong rebounders rather than just relying on one 7 footer to grab them all. I don't know what my point is exactly. About their coming.... Jokic, Embiid, Wimby, BLopez, Chet, Sabonis, Turner, Kessler, Sengun, Allen, Ayton, Gobert.. That's almost half of the league having 7 footers who can play. Who didn't I mention. Zubac, Robinson, Poetle, Williams, Gafford, Claxton, Nurkic, Valanciunas, Vucevic Horford, AD, JJJ, Porzingis, Duren, Bam, and Adams. I'm sure that there are a couple more. I have gone through and bolden those who I think he can handle one on one. Mostly due to speed or size or just guys who are not scorers. However, there are many on this list that I am afraid of what will happen. There will be about 4 starting centers that come out of this next draft. All of them will be legit 7 footers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 27 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 27 23 minutes ago, Mikey said: Good defender. Great finisher. Good rebounder. And now can shoot. What more do you want from a starter? Every time he starts he shows how good he is and his versatility on both ends opens so much for the team All three of those things are questionable. Let's start with the obvious.. Good rebounder? Usually he's out of position to rebound on defense. He doesn't box out most of the time. These are the things that i look at. The out of position to rebound goes hand and hand with what he's an OK defender. We tend to give him credit for the unasked thing that he does but we ignore the normal thing he's supposed to do. As our big, he is supposed to help protect our middle. He doesn't do that. However, he will follow a guard on a switch. So he switches on the guard and the guard leads him to the 3 pt line and the middle is wide open. What I see all the time is teams being able to dial up matchups on us because we over play and don't communicate on defense. Trae should never been in the low post guarding the other team's center. However, they dial that up a lot. Great Finisher. I would say Good finisher. He's just becoming a better finisher. He only brings the ball down 20% of the time now. Watching him finish used to be very awkward. Now, it;'s only partially awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 I'm fine with Okongwu. I'm fine with Jalen. I'm fine with Hunter. So why does a starting front line of Hunter, Jalen, and Okongwu seem lackluster? We got to get more fire power somewhere. Too many players outside of the top 10 or 15 at their position. Sorry Niang doesn't fix the problem either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted February 27 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 27 26 minutes ago, Final_quest said: I'm fine with Okongwu. I'm fine with Jalen. I'm fine with Hunter. So why does a starting front line of Hunter, Jalen, and Okongwu seem lackluster? But how many minutes as a starting unit have they actually played together? Heck how many minutes have they played together, period? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted February 27 Moderators Report Share Posted February 27 25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: But how many minutes as a starting unit have they actually played together? Heck how many minutes have they played together, period? Jalen and OO have played a lot of JJ's minutes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_dirt Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 Whether we use him as a starter or as primary BU for both C and PF positions, he’s a player that helps. This roster NEEDS versatility to be able to play big or small depending on matchups, and OO gives us some versatility. To follow up on that line of thinking, it is detrimental for the Hawks to draft a legitimate 7 footer in this draft to help hold the line when we play the big bodies OO struggles against 1v1. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, bird_dirt said: Whether we use him as a starter or as primary BU for both C and PF positions, he’s a player that helps. This roster NEEDS versatility to be able to play big or small depending on matchups, and OO gives us some versatility. To follow up on that line of thinking, it is detrimental for the Hawks to draft a legitimate 7 footer in this draft to help hold the line when we play the big bodies OO struggles against 1v1. I see zero issues with him on the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, NBASupes said: He doesn't really fit well with Trae. He's just an average helper. Doesn't really run the PnR all that well. He's good but Idk if he fits Trae. He's better as a backup. He's not a great straight up rim runner right now, but he does give Trae the option to have a pick and pop option. Plus, he does stuff like flare screens after the pick. This is what Tyrese Haliburton was talking about on that podcast with JJ Reddick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 31 minutes ago, bird_dirt said: Whether we use him as a starter or as primary BU for both C and PF positions, he’s a player that helps. This roster NEEDS versatility to be able to play big or small depending on matchups, and OO gives us some versatility. To follow up on that line of thinking, it is detrimental for the Hawks to draft a legitimate 7 footer in this draft to help hold the line when we play the big bodies OO struggles against 1v1. If your goal is to get a 7-footer, then I'd be more worried about the detriment the inability to move well enough to guard on the perimeter would have on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 Wish Gueye was available so we have a better idea about him. The fact that OO is still a bit of a mystery, this many years in, is bothersome. My hope is we're looking to upgrade the roster, particularly the frontcourt, however we can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, kg01 said: Wish Gueye was available so we have a better idea about him. The fact that OO is still a bit of a mystery, this many years in, is bothersome. My hope is we're looking to upgrade the roster, particularly the frontcourt, however we can. IMO, it shows the lack of proper player development that was being done under Pierce and McMillan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, KB21 said: IMO, it shows the lack of proper player development that was being done under Pierce and McMillan. Agree. But, if I'm being honest, I feel like i still get hints of it under the current regime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, NBASupes said: He doesn't really fit well with Trae. He's just an average helper. Doesn't really run the PnR all that well. He's good but Idk if he fits Trae. He's better as a backup. I mean they don’t really spam screens with him. Onyeka is and should be used as a hub. In dho’s and a ton of actions like that to actually unlock Trae and others off the ball or on. He’s got so much short roll capabilities he opens up a ton. Plus his spacing so guards like Dejounte (for now) can get middle. He’s good and him and jalen is a pairing they will have for a while unless someone overpays for him 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 27 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, bird_dirt said: To follow up on that line of thinking, it is detrimental for the Hawks to draft a legitimate 7 footer in this draft to help hold the line when we play the big bodies OO struggles against 1v1. If we were fortunate enough to be in position to get Alexandre Sarr... The purpose wouldn't have anything to do with OO except, he's a better player. And He's 7 foot. I felt the same way about Mark Williams last year. There are other guys 7 footers who are coming out who are just better players. They have more potential and really, they will bypass OO quickly in terms of their development. The thought has been why haven't we got Trae a legit big man to play with? Well, JJ is cool but he's a slashing 4 who can hit from outside.. but when we talk about the Clint Capela 2.0... the better model that can finish at the rim, run the PNR just as well, and can defend.. that's what is in this draft and he's 7 foot tall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 27 minutes ago, kg01 said: Agree. But, if I'm being honest, I feel like i still get hints of it under the current regime. I don't get that at all. With Pierce and McMillan, there was no skill level development going on. You don't have to get NBA minutes to get development. DeAndre Hunter was getting minutes under those two, but he wasn't getting any development. He's had right at a year under Quin now, and Quin has seemingly unlocked him. Jalen Johnson got no development under Nate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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