Coach Mike Brey: Talks State of the Hawks and plan for next season

[Atlantaholic]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

But the question isn't are they the best fit. It's what's the return for Murray. If we can't get anything to legit value, it's better we run it back

This is true. Everyone here is right. 

Don't disagree. In an ideal world we could get close to equal value on a trade for Murray for a frontcourt player. Of course, easier said than done.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Pairings can take time to work. For years critics said the Brown/Tatum pairing wasn't working. Now they are dominating, of course their roster is better overall. 

Offensively, I see paths to improving them as a pairing.  Defensively, I don't think there is a path.

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

But the question isn't are they the best fit. It's what's the return for Murray. If we can't get anything to legit value, it's better we run it back

This is true. Everyone here is right. 

You don't sell legit talent on a good contract for less than legit value.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Don't disagree. In an ideal world we could get close to equal value on a trade for Murray for a frontcourt player. Of course, easier said than done.

I don't mind having to include a sweetner to get it done.  But the idea of getting back Quentin Grimes (or another role player) as the biggest piece back is not even worth discussing.

[bird_dirt]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

I've been wondering if they will try to make Jalen a big 3 at some point.

I figured he’d replace Hunter sooner or later. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I don't mind having to include a sweetner to get it done.  But the idea of getting back Quentin Grimes (or another role player) as the biggest piece back is not even worth discussing.

This^.

The rumored deadline deals were awful. In each case it was expiring contracts and less than pieces that did nothing to make us a better team.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

When I said Big 3, I meant Big Wing, not part of a big 3 trio.  

Hell naw. His perimeter defense is bad. He's a good tweener defender like Smoove. I just wish his feel for the game on D was better but he's good. We definitely feel it when he's out. He's not as good of a team defender as JC but he's a better overall defender and he's way ahead of where JC was at the same stage

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[KB21]

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hell naw. His perimeter defense is bad. He's a good tweener defender like Smoove. I just wish his feel for the game on D was better but he's good. We definitely feel it when he's out. He's not as good of a team defender as JC but he's a better overall defender and he's way ahead of where JC was at the same stage

 

[Atlantaholic]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Neither have the Hawks tho

[JayBirdHawk]

21 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Neither have the Hawks tho

Hawks have....once or twice, years back. 

[theheroatl]

Ingram would be a nice addition.. JJ however IMO is a large 3, not a PF. 

 

Bey is moreso a PF he had more post moves.

[Spud2nique]

I tell ya I don’t care bout no state of the union address plan that Mr. Mike Brey is bringin up tell’ya what tho.. 

 

I WANNA FREAKIN WIN SOME DOG GONE GAMES LIKE WE USED TO BACK IN DEM DAYS! 
 

The squawk and everyone in town after they read that:

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

 

Because he loves playing JJ at the 3. Cut the shit, he's not dumb. He knows JJ as well as I do. f*** that! Mentioning McDaniels is false flattery to boost the confidence of your player. The reality says otherwise. 

I literally heard him prasing Bogi defense as well as Bey. Stop the cap

Edited March 15 by NBASupes

[TheBigETrain]

I really dont like anyone from our roster apart from Trae, DJM and JJ. We have learnt this season from our injuries  that the depth is just not there. If the other guys arent good enough, the team needs to be blown up. 

Another thing we have learned is that Trae is not a difference maker. We are not significantly worse without him in the lineup. I actually think our D has been much better and DJM is playing better without Trae.

Therefore to expediate the full rebuild, i'll be comfortable trading Trae for a boatload of picks and a young starter. Get our picks back from San Antonio, an additional pick and a young player like Vassell for Trae.

I would also put Bogi, Capela and Hunter on the block.

Bogi is 31 and too old for a team rebuilding. Trade him now while he still has value. Ideally if we can get a younger shooter in return. 

Capela has clearly declined. Not sure what happened to his defense, but it is really bad now.

Hunter needs to go too because we cant rely on him to be healthy. If we can get an asset in return, do the deal. If there is no interest, i rather not dump him for nothing and instead play him off the bench. Maybe he is a better player with limited minutes.

Priority for the offseason should be a new starting center. Someone that is a rim protecter. I wouldn't resign Bey. He probably wants too much and we already have an overpaid forward in Hunter. Mathews, Matthews should be released. And I can forsee AJ Griffin getting traded. Quin hasnt played him from day one and I dont see that changing.

My projected lineup

SF Johnson / Hunter (if there is no suitable trade)

PF Okongwu / New PF to compete with OO

C New starting C / New backup C

PG Murray / Bufkin

SG Vassell* / New SG

3rd stringers to be Fernando, Gueye, Forrest, Lundy and our 2024 draft picks. So it leaves an additional 5 players to be acquired via trades and free agency.

[NBASupes]

Trading Trae is a bad idea

[givemesome1ce1]

 

People don’t want to admit this…but Murray is starting to look more and more like a 6th man that should come of the bench. Stats showing Murray going down like this despite him being in his prime is not good at all.

I know everyone keeps saying “we gotta wait to see if we can get good value for Dejounte!” But that’s how the hawks FO got John Collins’s value so low to begin with because the hawks front office kept waiting and waiting for an offer that never came. We don’t have the assets to trade for another front court player unless we A. Trade Dejounte and or B. Trade our young players (which we don’t want to do considering how hyped some of them are).

At this point the hawks need to just take the L and move on, trade Dejounte and get it over with. The Trae and Dejounte backcourt will never work unless either of them becomes significantly taller or becomes way better defenders. That’s not happening anytime soon.

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

 

People don’t want to admit this…but Murray is starting to look more and more like a 6th man that should come of the bench. Stats showing Murray going down like this despite him being in his prime is not good at all.

I know everyone keeps saying “we gotta wait to see if we can get good value for Dejounte!” But that’s how the hawks FO got John Collins’s value so low to begin with because the hawks front office kept waiting and waiting for an offer that never came. We don’t have the assets to trade for another front court player unless we A. Trade Dejounte and or B. Trade our young players (which we don’t want to do considering how hyped some of them are).

At this point the hawks need to just take the L and move on, trade Dejounte and get it over with. The Trae and Dejounte backcourt will never work unless either of them becomes significantly taller or becomes way better defenders. That’s not happening anytime soon.

His RAPTOR looks good so it's only some of his advanced metrics that's taking a tumble whereas all advanced metrics are tumbling for Clint

[AHF]

3 hours ago, TheBigETrain said:

Another thing we have learned is that Trae is not a difference maker. We are not significantly worse without him in the lineup. I actually think our D has been much better and DJM is playing better without Trae.

Maybe let's see how we do when we aren't playing tanking and G-League teams like we've played most of the time since he got hurt.  (Over the last 5 years, the Hawks win 47.5% of games with Trae and 42.6% without him). 

On D, the defense should be better with Trae on the bench and DJM at PG because DJM is a defensive liability at the SG spot but isn't at the PG spot which means you can improve the defense at two spots.  All things being equal, that should lead to a better defense.  The fact that Trae getting hurt has overlapped almost exactly with the period where the NBA is giving offenses 5 fewer fouls per team per game leading to lower scoring games across the league also presents another unrelated factor that will make it appear that the defense is more improved than it actually is.

As for DJM playing better without Trae, I'd say that is a mixed bag.  He and Trae don't have much synergy, so there isn't a lot of doesn't and the main consequence is that he doesn't need to share the ball.  But his numbers aren't all that different other than he has played more minutes and had a higher usage rate (leading to more FGA, more assists, and more turnovers but the shooting %s are very similar and the steals, rebounds, and blocks are all basically the same).  Given that a lot of these games have been against G-League type talent (NY missing 4 starters, tanking Memphis, Cleveland missing 3 starters, the tanking Blazers, Utah missing 4 of its to 7 players YTD, etc.) I'd like to see a larger sample size before I draw many conclusions about how different the team and DJM look in games where Trae isn't playing.  We already had a more significant sample size of seeing how the offense functioned when Trae was on the bench for the first 50 games which wasn't the best and I'm certainly not going to ignore that.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Goals for Every NBA Team Down the Stretch

Atlanta Hawks: Determine the Staying Power of Non-Stars

Quote

Apologies to all who celebrate swings at low-hanging fruit, but the "Should the Atlanta Hawks choose between Dejounte Murray and Trae Young?" conversation no longer moves me. Their primary goal isn't getting to the bottom of that question because they already know the answer.

 

Young's absence following left pinkie finger surgery reinforced what we all knew: Atlanta's defense will improve without him, but its peak on the less glamorous end is neither high enough nor sustainable enough to prop up "The Hawks are better sans Young" diatribes. Ditto for an offense run by Murray.

 

If Atlanta wants to move off Young over the summer, it signals a rebuild and not a recalibration.

 

Questions regarding the non-stars are more pressing. Jalen Johnson has entrenched himself as part of the core, and the Murray-or-Young-or-both discourse is a circular debate. What about everyone else?

 

Has De'Andre Hunter cemented himself as part of the future? Is he best suited coming off the bench? Will his mid-range jumper fast become the new normal?

 

What is Onyeka Okongwu to this team? Clint Capela's heir apparent? A backup? Trade asset? Someone they don't actually trust to play the 5?

 

Is Vít Krejčí's defense officially a thing?

Is there a place for (a healthy) Kobe Bufkin and his defensive tenacity inside a rotation that includes both Murray and Young?

Is A.J. Griffin a retainable project the Hawks remain invested in who'd be playing more if not for a lower leg injury? Or is he more trade-sweetener with no clear path to playing time on this roster?

 

Atlanta cannot answer all these questions in full. It needs Young back first, and even then, its intel will be incomplete with Saddiq Bey's ACL injury ending his season.

 

However, the goal should nevertheless be to render long-term verdicts on as many non-stars as possible before the end of this season.

 

I can't say I disagree with much of anything.

Goals for Every NBA Team Down the Stretch | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

[aali34]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Goals for Every NBA Team Down the Stretch

Atlanta Hawks: Determine the Staying Power of Non-Stars

Goals for Every NBA Team Down the Stretch | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

That's the first time in a long time I've seen a thoughtul Bleacher Report post on the Hawks.