A brutal and honest assessment of Josh Smith

[txsting]

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2009/05/2008-...josh-smith.html

I have to say I agree with most of the points here. I especially agree with the idea that once you take the edge off his athleticism (as when he is a little hurt), he's a significantly reduced player. I do believe he is somewhat misused here, and would be better more effective playing at a higher pace. I recall making similar points about his small hands and it continues to bother me, although his ball handling seemed improved in 08-09 to my eye.

With Woody here, IMO we'd be better off to acquire a scoring post presence in trade for Smith (Amare?). Easy to say, near impossible to do. A better plan might be to get rid of Woody and bring in someone who wants to run, especially if we don't bring back Bibby. I'm not very worried about the likelihood of Josh to fall off quickly as he ages, since he will only be about 28 when his contract is up. But I do believe his value will never be much higher than it is right now.

[atlien]

Wow that was very well done.

[coachx]

Everyone should read that article.

Excellent read !

Edited June 2, 2009 by coachx

[TheDude]

wow, that one hurt but it was a very good article....especially on the issue we have with the offense we run not being in line with his skills.

it did hurt though....with such athleticism you always hope that it can be realized and him become our superstar....but you dont know if that can come to fruition....if not, sell high seems the way to go but it's a hard part because of the excitement and potential he shows...

[T21]

... I must say that I agree with most of points from the blog... However, I must also point out that it was written in a very bad and negative tone...

I know that we all get frustrated watching Smoove take ill-advised jumpshots, when he could feast down-low... but we also must realize that he's still very, very young... yet, he proved year in and year out that he's improving and that he is willing to go that extra mile to work on his game and come back better! That's a process... it takes time...

Smoove is a unique talent (we all must agree on that), that you don't find that often... He can change the game single-handedly (unfortunately, sometimes for the worst)... but I still believe in him... sometimes he reminds me of young Shawn Kemp, and just remember how long it took for Kemp to reach his true potential...

And finaly to those who constantly try to wheel and deal Smoove from ATL... You don't subtract such a talented young player from your team. We have already invested too much and dealing Smoove would mean givin' up on these Hawks... just as they have shown steady progress...

No! You add more pieces! That's what we need! And for that my friends, we need our ownership to make it possible with key strategic decisions which would allow our management (Sund) to make necessary moves to round up Hawks and create a window of opportunity for our team to contend and hopefully win it all in the next couple of years...

[Admin]

Yep that was a good read thanks for the link!

Cue the defensive response from someone with Smoove, Smith, etc. in their username in 3, 2, 1 ...

[NJHAWK]

BOSH FOR JOSH BOSH FOR JOSH BOSH FOR JO :thumbsupsmileyanim: SH

[macdaddy]

First off there is a strong possibility that his physical skills won't seriously diminish for 8-10 years. He's played in one offensive system his whole career. There is evidence that he can play the low post we just don't run any plays for him there. He has showed dramatic improvement since coming into the league and shows no signs of hitting a ceiling. His problems are decision making and a bad jump shot. How many guys in the nba would love to only have those things to work on? Those are fixable.

If you buy the notion that you have to have a star to win in the nba then you don't trade Josh Smith. He may not be a star now but he's the only guy on this team who has the physical tools and the determination to be a star. Unless we're getting a bona fide all star in return then we keep molding Josh Smith.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2009/05/2008-...josh-smith.html

I have to say I agree with most of the points here. I especially agree with the idea that once you take the edge off his athleticism (as when he is a little hurt), he's a significantly reduced player. I do believe he is somewhat misused here, and would be better more effective playing at a higher pace. I recall making similar points about his small hands and it continues to bother me, although his ball handling seemed improved in 08-09 to my eye.

With Woody here, IMO we'd be better off to acquire a scoring post presence in trade for Smith (Amare?). Easy to say, near impossible to do. A better plan might be to get rid of Woody and bring in someone who wants to run, especially if we don't bring back Bibby. I'm not very worried about the likelihood of Josh to fall off quickly as he ages, since he will only be about 28 when his contract is up. But I do believe his value will never be much higher than it is right now.

DAMN! CAN WE GET THIS WRITE AS OUR NEXT COACH :helpsmilie:

[JackB1]

The main point that article brought out was this.......

JOSH WILL NEVER SUCCEED UNDER A WOODY-LED OFFENSE!

That's the fact, Jack!

Josh will never reach his potential under Woody. We are much better off trading him now, while

other teams still may "dream" if his untapped potential. A few more seasons with us where his

stats go downhill and he continues to have the worst jump shooting percentage in the NBA

will render him untradable with little value.

Edited June 2, 2009 by JackB1

[buckeye242424]

First off there is a strong possibility that his physical skills won't seriously diminish for 8-10 years. He's played in one offensive system his whole career. There is evidence that he can play the low post we just don't run any plays for him there. He has showed dramatic improvement since coming into the league and shows no signs of hitting a ceiling. His problems are decision making and a bad jump shot. How many guys in the nba would love to only have those things to work on? Those are fixable.

If you buy the notion that you have to have a star to win in the nba then you don't trade Josh Smith. He may not be a star now but he's the only guy on this team who has the physical tools and the determination to be a star. Unless we're getting a bona fide all star in return then we keep molding Josh Smith.

Good points. And I agree, we need to keep him unless we can get that "star" in Atlanta. Bosh, Amare are the hot names now. Any merit there, who knows....but... I'd be ok acquiring either.

The only thing I'm concerned with is, who is molding Smoove? Who is attempting to teach him to play to his strengths on the court? By watching him, he's either ignoring the coaches, or head coach - an extremely slow learner - or nobody really has taken him under their wing to be a mentor to this kid. If we kept Smoove his entire career, fine...but at some point, hopefully year 6, the light has to come on for him. When it does, look out. It's something he's not going to realize on his own or he would have done it already.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Easily the best article I've ever seen done on Josh Smith. And I like the fact that he said that Smith doesn't cut into space toward the basket as the offense stalls. That's a great point. I wonder if he's being coached to do just that, but he doesn't do it. Most people would say that Woody isn't coaching him to do that.

I've done that same jumpshot eFG% breakdown on this board, to illustrate that Smith probably isn't going to improve as a jumpshooter . . possibly EVER. And I think this is the 2nd year in a row that Smith has been at the bottom of that 82games.com list, as far as making his 2 point shots.

It's like I've always said. Smoove should either play like Shawn Kemp and relentlessly attack the rim, or be a "souped-up" version of Shawn Marion, because he is so athletic. But he almost refuses to mix it up in the paint, via getting rebounds and attacking the rim. He does it in stretches, but he should do it all the time.

He's as athletic as anybody in the league, but he plays a little too soft when playing the 4. And he doesn't shoot well enough or is able to create his own shot enough, to play the 3. So he should simply try to be more of an energy player, that can get offensive rebounds and put it back in the hole . . or be that guy who fills the lane on the fast break . . not lead the fast break. He can draw fouls though, when going to the hole. But he just doesn't go to the hole enough.

Even with his performance in the playoffs, we saw the good and the bad of him. As great as he looked at times, when he decided to take the ball to the hole ( especially in the Cleveland series ), he still managed to have 53% of his shots be jumpers. And he had an eFG of 24% on his jumpshots. That's unacceptable.

He's the Michael Vick of the Hawks. He's great to watch, when he's playing at the top of his game. You see what he needs to do to improve, but he just doesn't do it . . just like how Vick didn't. And like Vick, he sometimes doesn't play to his strengths as a player. That's why Vick was a very flawed star with the Falcons. And the same could be said for Smoove with the Hawks.

But look at the Falcons. The world was supposed to end when Vick went down. And it did for a season. But then they get a QB that can actually play like a QB, and it's like the city has completely forgot about Vick, despite how popular he was.

[Hawk88]

http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2009/05/2008-...josh-smith.html

I have to say I agree with most of the points here. I especially agree with the idea that once you take the edge off his athleticism (as when he is a little hurt), he's a significantly reduced player. I do believe he is somewhat misused here, and would be better more effective playing at a higher pace. I recall making similar points about his small hands and it continues to bother me, although his ball handling seemed improved in 08-09 to my eye.

With Woody here, IMO we'd be better off to acquire a scoring post presence in trade for Smith (Amare?). Easy to say, near impossible to do. A better plan might be to get rid of Woody and bring in someone who wants to run, especially if we don't bring back Bibby. I'm not very worried about the likelihood of Josh to fall off quickly as he ages, since he will only be about 28 when his contract is up. But I do believe his value will never be much higher than it is right now.

With Woody as the head coach we need a team that doesn't need coaching. Josh and Woody will never get along. Josh needs to go to a veteran team who he cannot question or pout around. I really do think Josh is with the wrong organization. He should be traded for a veteran.

Hawk88

[frosgrim]

Agreed, good piece on Josh Smith. I thought the one on Woodson was insightful and well written as well.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

First off there is a strong possibility that his physical skills won't seriously diminish for 8-10 years. He's played in one offensive system his whole career. There is evidence that he can play the low post we just don't run any plays for him there. He has showed dramatic improvement since coming into the league and shows no signs of hitting a ceiling. His problems are decision making and a bad jump shot. How many guys in the nba would love to only have those things to work on? Those are fixable.

If you buy the notion that you have to have a star to win in the nba then you don't trade Josh Smith. He may not be a star now but he's the only guy on this team who has the physical tools and the determination to be a star. Unless we're getting a bona fide all star in return then we keep molding Josh Smith.

I agree that you don't trade Josh Smith unless you get a star to replace him. That star needs to be a guy who plays more like a PF though.

People keep saying that about Smoove, and the rest of the league, but that just isn't true for the most part. Most bad shooters in this league DON'T improve. Most bad decision making players, KEEP making bad decisions throughout their career. You can find instances where this isn't the case. But you can find many more where a bad shooter stays a bad shooter . . and a bad decision maker keeps making bad decisions.

The two things I can say about Smoove this year, is that . . 1) he did try to play more aggressive at times, especially by dunking on people in traffic. That's the Shawn Kemp quality that he needs to play with. And . . 2) for most of the season, he did resist the temptation of jacking up a ton of threes, which dramatically raised his overrall FG%. That trend needs to continue into next year.

Lay off the jumpshots, attack the rim, and try to get easy buckets off the fast break or off offensive rebounds. Let Horford and Marvin take the mid-range shots, while Smith racks up the rebounds.

Edited June 2, 2009 by northcyde

[Sothron]

Smith and Woody go together like oil and water. Heck any of our players and Woody go together like oil and water with the exception of JJ and that's only because Woody makes him the only focus point on offense.

[macdaddy]

I just can't get on board with getting rid of major talent because the 'system' isn't working for him. I know i'm preaching to the choir but getting the talent is the hard part. Using it should be the easy part. If we are unloading out best players because they don't work with Woody then we will forever be mediocre or worse. That said, as much as i don't like Woody's system, i don't believe for a second that Josh can't thrive in it. Its not like the offense is so structured that he can't put himself in a position to be successful. Plus, all signs point to this being the breakout year. I think Smoove and Horford are both hungry to lead this team on offense. We've seen how far JJ and Bibby can get us. Its time for an inside/out attack.

[Admin]

I just can't get on board with getting rid of major talent because the 'system' isn't working for him. I know i'm preaching to the choir but getting the talent is the hard part. Using it should be the easy part. If we are unloading out best players because they don't work with Woody then we will forever be mediocre or worse. That said, as much as i don't like Woody's system, i don't believe for a second that Josh can't thrive in it. Its not like the offense is so structured that he can't put himself in a position to be successful. Plus, all signs point to this being the breakout year. I think Smoove and Horford are both hungry to lead this team on offense. We've seen how far JJ and Bibby can get us. Its time for an inside/out attack.

While I agree with what you're saying, there are more reasons to get rid of Josh Smith than he simply doesn't work well with Woody and the article clearly illustrates them. Should we trade Josh? I don't know, but I'd certainly understand why we traded him if we did.

[mrhonline]

I think there would be some value to continue the trend of running the offense through Smith in short stretches. He's a good passer, and even if he misses inside, there's Horford or Pachulia to clean things up.

Might I even suggest a hi-low tandem with Smith on the block and Horford at the top of the key???

[Bahamut]

A WOODY-LED OFFENSE

This would imply that Woody has 1) the ability to lead, or 2) an offense. :white flag:

Does not compute :shake_puter: