58 Responses to “Joe Johnson is good, not great”

[NineOhTheRino]

Some responses to an old Dime Magazine article on Joe.

Sorry if repost but nonetheless it's still good talk.

Just scroll down the article to see responses.

Edited August 3, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[NineOhTheRino]

April 28th, 2009 at 9:36 am

ian says:

hes not as good as roy, howard, carmelo, or yao… i can see the igoudala comparison

Why fans are so quick to say Brandon Roy is better is mind boggling. The two or so close that you really can't make a claim either way.

And while on the subject of Roy and Joe. Dime's Top 10 Guards in 08-09 has Roy #3 and Joe #9

Edited August 3, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[thefloydian]

I think Roy's better at taking over a game.

[hawksrule9]

Until Joe shows up in the playoffs and when we play on national tv he is good. He does choke is huge situations. He is still our leader and a hell of a player. I see him breaking out this year and putting up big numbers. imo

[Diesel]

No way is JJ better than Roy, Arenas, Yao, Howard, Carmelo, or Bosh.

I have seen this quote several times in the page. I have to disagree. The only players who I think are on the list that might be better than Joe is Howard and Carmello... and that's because of the style of play they use.

A direct comparison of JJ to Roy.... leads to this. Roy is the more explosive scorer but doesn't have the better all around game yet. Joe actually defends pretty well. With Joe's size, he can defend 4 positions. Therefore, he can play 4 positions.

Would I rather have a healthy Yao? Sure. Yao is 7'5". If he's healthy, there's the potential to be a great player.

Bosh isn't that impressive to me. Not the kind of guy who can carry a team to the playoffs.

[NineOhTheRino]

I think Roy's better at taking over a game.

That's probably because Roy's inside game is much better. Well..at least he has better numbers but I think Joe could have equal or better numbers if he made inside play more of a priority. Joe has to get to the FT line more if he wants to be with the elite class of guards.

Edited August 3, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[thefloydian]

That's probably because Roy's inside game is much better. Well..at least he has better numbers but I think Joe could have equal or better numbers if he made inside play more of a priority.

I don't necessarily think that Roy is better than Joe in terms of pure talent, but Joe seems to fall in love with the jumper a little too often for my tastes.

[Admin]

Until Joe shows up in the playoffs and when we play on national tv he is good. He does choke is huge situations. He is still our leader and a hell of a player. I see him breaking out this year and putting up big numbers. imo

See Playoffs, 2007, Boston series, for proof on Joe stepping up in the playoffs on national TV.

I'd rather not judge our star player while he plays half the year injured and several of our starters are missing or injured and on top of that we design our "offense" so that Joe is doubled every possession.

[DrReality]

I think Roy is better at instilling confidence in his teammates. IE leadership.

[NineOhTheRino]

I'm giving Joe a pass on the the 08-09 playoffs. Hell I can't imagine how frustrating it was for Joe. Poor guy was doubled every possession while the only guy that can help him was on the bench laughing at knock-knock jokes.

[Diesel]

That's probably because Roy's inside game is much better. Well..at least he has better numbers but I think Joe could have equal or better numbers if he made inside play more of a priority. Joe has to get to the FT line more if he wants to be with the elite class of guards.

This is a very good point. Joe is not going to get to the FT line as much as others. It's just not part of his game. I think that will give him more longevity though. I have no doubts that Joe can post and as he gets older, he will do more posting.

[RedDawg#8]

Roy couldnt even get his team past the first round, Joe won game 7 by himself for the most part.

Roy has a killer instinct in lesser moments i.e reg. season

Joe has a killer instinct only in the last possible moments where he can still make a difference.

the 4th quarter of that game in the Bos series. Game 7 this year.

I think Joe tries to play a modest game and not take it over until its absolutely neccesary and almost too late

[xhawk]

Roy couldnt even get his team past the first round, Joe won game 7 by himself for the most part.

...

I think Joe tries to play a modest game and not take it over until its absolutely neccesary and almost too late

These are both very good points. The only thing I'd add is that Joe is one of those players that won't get respect unless he wins a title. I heard alot of similar talk about Duncan before he won a title.

[EazyRoc]

I have seen this quote several times in the page. I have to disagree. The only players who I think are on the list that might be better than Joe is Howard and Carmello... and that's because of the style of play they use.

A direct comparison of JJ to Roy.... leads to this. Roy is the more explosive scorer but doesn't have the better all around game yet. Joe actually defends pretty well. With Joe's size, he can defend 4 positions. Therefore, he can play 4 positions.

Would I rather have a healthy Yao? Sure. Yao is 7'5". If he's healthy, there's the potential to be a great player.

Bosh isn't that impressive to me. Not the kind of guy who can carry a team to the playoffs.

Huh ? So just how did Toronto make it to the playoffs in back to back years a few years ago ? T.J. Ford ? Bargnani ? or Anthony Parker ?

Bosh is most definitely better than Joe. Not only that, but Bosh will get better.

Edited August 3, 2009 by EazyRoc

[MaceCase]

That's probably because Roy's inside game is much better. Well..at least he has better numbers but I think Joe could have equal or better numbers if he made inside play more of a priority. Joe has to get to the FT line more if he wants to be with the elite class of guards.

I agree with this but Roy is one the most sneakily athletic players I've ever seen. You can't really tell at times by his game but when he skys up there for a jam you just say "wow, where'd that come from?" Joe on the other hand can't get up there like Roy but is the most athletic below the rim player I can think off and I know that is only further hampered by the numerous foot injuries he has that never get's reported.

[MaceCase]

Huh ? So just how did Toronto make it to the playoffs in back to back years a few years ago ? T.J. Ford ? Bargnani ? or Anthony Parker ?

Bosh is most definitely better than Joe. Not only that, but Bosh will get better.

Last I checked TJ Ford led the Bucks to the playoffs too before joining Toronto where they produced the same number of wins we did last season and won the Atlantic division only to get bounced by the 6th seed Nets in the first round 4-2. The next season they had a .500 record as the 6th seed and fared worse in the playoffs losing to the Magic 4-1. Bosh is not better than Joe and he's not going to get any better, he is what he is. His stats haven't fluctuated up or down more than 1 over the last 4 seasons so he is consistent but not improving. Those Toronto teams had much better depth than we have ever had to go along with Bosh yet haven't produced the way our team has with Joe so I'll go ahead and give that notch to Joe.

[Diesel]

Huh ? So just how did Toronto make it to the playoffs in back to back years a few years ago ? T.J. Ford ? Bargnani ? or Anthony Parker ?

Bosh is most definitely better than Joe. Not only that, but Bosh will get better.

A better question is why haven't Toronto been back in the last few years?

Bosh is still there right?

[gsuteke]

A better question is why haven't Toronto been back in the last few years?

Bosh is still there right?

Hard to say but valid question indeed.

Toronto doesn't really have a complimentary player. Plus they lack a plan it seems.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

That's a good article from Dime. What's ironoc though, is that this article was written after Game 4 of the Miami series. If he had waited a week, and peeped out Games 5 & 7 when JJ dropped 25 and 27 points, I wonder if the article would've been written a little differently. On those nights, JJ looked like a top 5 player.

The next step for JJ, is actually the next step for the Hawks . . . and that is to become KILLERS ON THE ROAD.

The 5 - 7 or so "great" players in this league possess the quality of being able to kill a raucous home crowd with his shotmaking ( kind of what the article was talking about ).

To me, that's one of the last steps JJ needs to take, in order to become feared like those top level guys ( although the coaches around the league gameplan to stop him like he's already one of those guys ).

Is JJ a GREAT player? Of course not. But if I were to measure his overall game on a 1 - 10 scale, in which guys like Kobe and LeBron would get 10s . . . JJ is a solid 8.

JJ - 8

Smith - 7.25 ( if he's playing top level defense )

Bibby - 6.75

Horford - 6.75

Crawford - 6.5

Marvin - 6.25

Zaza - 5

Evans - 4.75

Teague - n/a

And when you compare our team with the LAKERS . . .

Kobe - 10

Gasol - 8

Odom - 7.75

Artest - 7

Fisher - 6.5

Bynum - 6.25

Walton - 5

Brown - 4.5

Farmar - 4.5

You kind of see what the problem is for the Hawks, in regards for being a legit title contender.

As for JJ:

( still LOL @ that 35 foot BOMB that he shot in Wade's face in Game 7. That's one of the most incredible jumpshots I've ever seen. JJ actually shot a pull-up jumper from that range., in which he measured the guy up first, before taking the shot I still shake my head whenever I re-watch Game 7 )

[Diesel]

Hard to say but valid question indeed.

Toronto doesn't really have a complimentary player. Plus they lack a plan it seems.

Yeah but it was EzROc's take that Bosh did it with less talent. That's right less talent. In the time sense they went to the playoffs, they have had Jermaine Oneal and Shawn Marion.. and NOTHING.

You can't just ignore Ford's 14/8.