You guys are tragically funny.

[Buzzard]

The funny thing Buzzard is that last preseason, Orlando beat us in a game. However, in the first game of the season, without Marvin (when they had everybody) we beat them so badly that it was over going into the 4th quarter. I'm not saying that preseason is meaningless... But what I am saying is let's just play the games before we bring out the gloom and doom.

I am a Hawks fan Diesel. A 4th seed and the playoffs is something to look forward to. I think you are taking my post in the wrong light. Some people are doom and gloom about one loss; I am not. My expectations are exactly the same as before the game. We will make the playoffs again and it will be a fun season to watch this team once again improve.

[HalfHawk]

:thumbsupsmileyanim: An applause for Diesel.... Well said. :thumbsupsmileyanim:

Edited October 24, 2009 by SmooveZilla

[Plainview1981]

How many more sky is falling post do I have to read? We got our asses handed to us and we looked bad. Hell, it happens to every team. Especially when the team looks like their shooting 80% from 3. We have time to diagnose this teams problem, but don't doubt that we are still good.

This team seems to have these type of games fairly often. It almost happened in back to back games against Orlando last year if Orlando didn't let their guard down the first game. They sure didn't that 2nd game. The playoff losses were awful. That series against Miami was one of the worst playoff series I've ever seen. Terrible basketball. And the team got whipped by Cleveland. What about the 30-40 point loss to Boston in game 7 two years ago? The 30 point lead blown to NJ. This team embarrasses it's self fairly often. Last night showed that the Hawks are still going to make complete fools of themselves sometimes. It's liable to happen on any given night. I think everybody expected a loss last night, and I'm not as mad as I appear to be on the board, but last night was a disaster and I didn't even get to see the first period.

Is it going to stop this team from getting 4th or 5th seed? No. Because this team maxes out it's potential at 4th seed and way below the top teams. Even if this team had the talent to reach Orlando's level, they still don't get it because they're stupid. That's the most frustrating part. The players don't seem to want to play hard every night.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[mrhonline]

This team seems to have these type of games fairly often.

This I actually agree with an mentioned in the chat. Do you guys think these things keep happening because of some systematic issues (e.g., offense) or could it possibly be that this team isn't that smart?

[Admin]

This I actually agree with an mentioned in the chat. Do you guys think these things keep happening because of some systematic issues (e.g., offense) or could it possibly be that this team isn't that smart?

Yes

[Buzzard]

This I actually agree with an mentioned in the chat. Do you guys think these things keep happening because of some systematic issues (e.g., offense) or could it possibly be that this team isn't that smart?

To me when it comes to effort, its about pride and motivation. Back to backs are tough in the NBA but thats no excuse for not even showing up. A 10 to 15 pt loss and I would have thought maybe they are just tired. Being down over 30 with your starters on the floor is a total lack of effort in my mind.

My observations on three bench players:

Teague looked like a total rookie.

Crawford looked like he wanted it.

Morris actually showed some flashes.

You know its a bad game though when Morris scores as many points as any of our starters in less minutes. Our starting five did not come to play and Orlandos did.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Buzzard

[High5]

The funny thing Buzzard is that last preseason, Orlando beat us in a game. However, in the first game of the season, without Marvin (when they had everybody) we beat them so badly that it was over going into the 4th quarter. I'm not saying that preseason is meaningless... But what I am saying is let's just play the games before we bring out the gloom and doom.

And in the middle of the season when teams weren't suffering from opening night rust they were beating us by 56 one game.

[Kimsey]

If it wasn't for a half court buzzer beater by LBJ, Orl sweeps Cleveland in the playoffs. They only lose Hedo and Lee and gain VC, Bass, Ryan Anderson, and they didn't even have Lewis. We won't ever compete with Orl unless we get someone that can compete with Dwight.

[niremetal]

To me when it comes to effort, its about pride and motivation. Back to backs are tough in the NBA but thats no excuse for not even showing up. A 10 to 15 pt loss and I would have thought maybe they are just tired. Being down over 30 with your starters on the floor is a total lack of effort in my mind.

My observations on three bench players:

Teague looked like a total rookie.

Crawford looked like he wanted it.

Morris actually showed some flashes.

You know its a bad game though when Morris scores as many points as any of our starters in less minutes. Our starting five did not come to play and Orlandos did.

Funny. Crawford didn't seem to "want it" much on defense. Amazing how people seem to completely ignore what happens on that side of the ball.

[buckeye242424]

How many more sky is falling post do I have to read? We got our asses handed to us and we looked bad. Hell, it happens to every team. Especially when the team looks like their shooting 80% from 3. We have time to diagnose this teams problem, but don't doubt that we are still good.

It's getting annoying. I could use the same response I used on one thread on eight.

[MaceCase]

Funny. Crawford didn't seem to "want it" much on defense. Amazing how people seem to completely ignore what happens on that side of the ball.

Now I'm one of those who loves to hate Crawful but he did show some determination on defense.....then he let Ryan Anderson take him off the dribble from the 3 point line to the paint and pretty much said forget it from that point on.

[Buzzard]

Funny. Crawford didn't seem to "want it" much on defense. Amazing how people seem to completely ignore what happens on that side of the ball.

And its funny how some people ignore basic effort like yourself. Guess you think Crawford should be an all world defender just because he plays for us now. Maybe you have not watched him play for the last 9 years being a casual fan and all; so here is a news flash, Crawford will never be a all world defender; but at least he showed up last night.

[niremetal]

And its funny how some people ignore basic effort like yourself. Guess you think Crawford should be an all world defender just because he plays for us now. Maybe you have not watched him play for the last 9 years being a casual fan and all; so here is a news flash, Crawford will never be a all world defender; but at least he showed up last night.

Dude, you don't know me or anything about me. I am no casual fan, and have watched Crawford plenty. Don't get personal if you don't know someone.

I agree he gave "basic effort" and "showed up" on offense. But he "showed up" and gave "basic effort" only on offense. On defense, he was barely making an effort to deny penetration. To me, it doesn't count as "showing up" if you only do it on one side of the floor.

Edited October 24, 2009 by niremetal

[NineOhTheRino]

Good at what? Beating the rest of the mediocre east? They didn't even have their 2nd lead scorer from last year and they still took this team apart.

Don't waste your time man. These guys will never get it. They don't see this team objectively. We both know how this thing will end. Hawks will continue to beat bad teams and get killed when faced with a good team.

Here the script:

Ugly preseason loss:

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man it's only preseason!

Ugly loss around 20 games in

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man we're only 20 games in!

Round 1 of playoffs

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man it's a five-game series!

After the round 2 sweep

member x: We Suck!

member y: Yep...we suck!

Edited October 25, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[Buzzard]

Dude, you don't know me or anything about me. I am no casual fan, and have watched Crawford plenty. Don't get personal if you don't know someone.

I agree he gave "basic effort" and "showed up" on offense. But he "showed up" and gave "basic effort" only on offense. On defense, he was barely making an effort to deny penetration. To me, it doesn't count as "showing up" if you only do it on one side of the floor.

Let me put it this way, Crawford has never been good on defense in nine years. I know this because I have followed him and wanted him on our team for nine years. His effort last night on both ends of the floor is about as good as it gets. In case you have not noticed he is bigger than most point guards in the league and a hell of a lot slower. And the flip side is he is to small to deal with most SG's in the league.

The reason I suggested you may be a casual fan is most fans know this and expect it. He gave the same effort last night on both ends of the floor he has given for nine years. I wish I could say that about all our players.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

This I actually agree with an mentioned in the chat. Do you guys think these things keep happening because of some systematic issues (e.g., offense) or could it possibly be that this team isn't that smart?

When the Lakers get blown out by the Rockets, I don't take that to mean that the Lakers aren't smart or that there is something systematically wrong. There are 82 games in a season. Over 82 games, there are going to be some tough nights. Even the Bulls that won 72 games lost 10. I'm not suggesting that we are the Bulls, but what I'm saying is that just because we lost one preseason game, it doesn't mean that we're on our way to a mediocre season or that we have systematic problems. I just think we should take a wait and see posture.

[buckeye242424]

When the Lakers get blown out by the Rockets, I don't take that to mean that the Lakers aren't smart or that there is something systematically wrong. There are 82 games in a season. Over 82 games, there are going to be some tough nights. Even the Bulls that won 72 games lost 10. I'm not suggesting that we are the Bulls, but what I'm saying is that just because we lost one preseason game, it doesn't mean that we're on our way to a mediocre season or that we have systematic problems. I just think we should take a wait and see posture.

Yes, and yes.... how does that affect our current record?? It doesn't. The season has not begun,

[Atlantaholic]

Don't waste your time man. These guys will never get it. They don't see this team objectively. We both know how this thing will end. Hawks will continue to beat bad teams and get killed when faced with a good team.

Here the script:

Ugly preseason loss:

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man it's only preseason!

Ugly loss around 20 games in

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man we're only 20 games in!

Round 1 of playoffs

member x: We Suck!

member y: chill man it's a five-game series!

After the round 2 sweep

member x: We Suck!

member y: Yep...we suck!

Yes only teams that get swept in the second round have blowouts in the preseason. It's not like the lakers lost to the clippers last year by 17 at home in preseason. Or the championship Celtics losing 78 to 96 against the powerhouse 76ers in 2007 at home. Yeah, flawless logic there.

The reality is we have no idea how good this team will be because the season hasn't started. Why is that difficult for people to grasp?

Edited October 25, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[jy23]

This is your 1st year on Hawksquawk during the season so I'm just going to let you in on a little secret, after any type of loss this place is absolutely depressing and more often than not after a win it's crickets that you hear. Unless we go on a big winning streak and then we're the best team in the league, until a loss, and then the negativity starts flowing again.

Yeah I think it was teke who first warned me about this, its hilarious to me tho.

[niremetal]

Let me put it this way, Crawford has never been good on defense in nine years. I know this because I have followed him and wanted him on our team for nine years. His effort last night on both ends of the floor is about as good as it gets. In case you have not noticed he is bigger than most point guards in the league and a hell of a lot slower. And the flip side is he is to small to deal with most SG's in the league.

The reason I suggested you may be a casual fan is most fans know this and expect it. He gave the same effort last night on both ends of the floor he has given for nine years. I wish I could say that about all our players.

That's fine. But the thing I was disputing is the idea that Crawford "showed up" last night. In my book, you don't show up unless you show up on both ends. It's something that ticks me off to no end - a lot of people judge whether a player "shows up" by how aggressive he is offensively, without regard to what happens for the other 50% of the game.

As for whether I expect it from Crawford...yes, I do. I know he does not lay it out there on defense, and I've come to expect that from him after watching him on WGN and the MSG Network (I've lived in Philly for 6 of the past 8 years and both are part of the digital cable package around here). But just because he never "showed up" on defense before doesn't mean that we should pat him on the back for continuing to do it. And that's what it seems like you're doing when you applaud someone for "showing up" when he is aggressive offensively even though he didn't give an effort on the other end of the floor. And that annoys the hell out of me. (This is all aside from the fact that he threw two of the worst passes I've seen in quite awhile and didn't set anyone up to score all night)

I've also come to expect these types of games from the Hawks every once in awhile, so I don't know about how dissonant last night was with expectations for the rest of the players...

In any case, you know what they say about people who assume. So don't do it.

Edited October 25, 2009 by niremetal