Time to Trade Marvin?

[frankthetank966]

Is it time to trade Marvin Williams? Our 3rd pick from the 2005 draft has gone invisible this season. After getting a hefty contract this off season he isn't even averaging double-figures in 27+ minutes. His field goal % is down to nearly 40%, he is shooting a horrific .250% from 3PT range and is not even averaging an assist a game. These are not impressive stats, nor are they stats you expect from your starting SF who is averaging over 25 ppg. Could the Hawks potentially deal Marvin and a future pick for a player who would fit in better with the Hawks system? Marvin plays solid defense but I have a feeling we could trade him and get a better defensive SF and better shooter.

What are your thought?

Edited November 14, 2009 by frankthetank966

[tremor]

I say no, but not unconditional no. It doesn't matter which draft pick he was but what he brings to the table with the money he gets. When he was resigned most fans agreed that he deserve that kind of money. But he's current stats are way below his last year production.

I say let's wait until either he wakes up or it's obvious that he's going through some long lasting slump and trade is beneficial for team and Marvin himself.

[exodus]

First of all Marvin is BYC making any trades more difficult. Secondly trading a player when his stock is way down isn't exactly the best strategy.

he has been pretty bad though.

[Atlantaholic]

First of all Marvin is BYC making any trades more difficult. Secondly trading a player when his stock is way down isn't exactly the best strategy.

he has been pretty bad though.

Exactly. Our best hope is for him to start shooting like he did last year... While we wait for that to happen I think you will continue to see us go with Bibby, Craw, JJ, Smoove, Horf... which is the best Hawk lineup we have had since I started watching basketball IMHO.

[mrhonline]

To answer the OP's question? No. The Hawks clearly aren't needing Marvin to be an all-world scorer. They're using him in a Mo Evans role, which may or may not be the best thing long-term, but for now, it's fine. (See LaGree's blog article on hoopinion for further discussion).

In the interim, let's put things in some perspective:

Marvin Williams (stats from previous season vs. first 9 games of this season):

TS% - 57 vs. 55

eFG% - 50 vs. 45

FT/36 - 3.8 vs. 4.0

ORB% - 6.2 vs. 4.8

DRB% - 15.2 vs. 14.9

AST% - 6.3 vs. 2.8

STL% - 1.5 vs. 1.2

BLK% - 1.4 vs. 2.1

TOV% - 8.6 vs. 9.6

USG% - 18.2 vs. 15.1

Net Production - +3 vs. +1

On/Off - -3.2 vs. -3.4

He's still getting to the line and converting at a solid clip. His scoring efficiency is still above average. His defensive rebounding is the same. His steal and block %'s are comparable (or offsetting at least). His ballhandling is the same. His on/off stats are not much different than last year (which is a bit surprising due to the Hawks' improved depth on the wing).

The problems are:

1. Shooting efficiency --> I think we can (almost) all agree this is temporary. Marvin will shake out of this shooting slump ("slump"being a relative term).

2. Offensive rebounding --> I believe this may be connected in some way to Josh's newly discovered affinity for staying inside...and Joe Smith's better sense of fundamentals (relative to Solomon Jones'). However, if he is to be a combo 3/4, he needs to improve in this area.

3. Usage --> What? You're surprised that he's not a major focus in the offense? What do you mean he's the fourth/fifth option at all times? (Woodson MUST find a way to get Marvin a few easy shots inside the perimeter here and there).

4. Net production - Probably a reflection of #1. His defensive production is consistent with last year (at least statistically).

5. Passing - This is the one facet of Marvin's game that always bothers me. Some attention must be paid to his role in the offense (he's always on the opposite side of the court while JJ/JC run an iso), but it NEEDS TO improve regardless. He almost never sets up his teammates.

If the Hawks do trade Marvin, they have to get back someone with a prayer of guarding the bigger, stronger 3's that many of the best teams in the NBA have. There's not much incentive to trade Marvin this year because the Hawks are doing so well. Next year is unlikely because his salary actually declines.

Personally, I just don't see it. If Marvin were an issue chemistry-wise, perhaps.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Of course you don't trade Marvin. If we do trade him, it'll be for expiring contracts to free up more money next summer to possibly sign JJ to a bigger deal. A move like that may keep the Hawks from going into luxury tax land to keep JJ.

Marvin had a shooting slump like this last year. So it's not out of the question that he'll eventually start knocking down shots.

[DJlaysitup]

First of all Marvin is BYC making any trades more difficult. Secondly trading a player when his stock is way down isn't exactly the best strategy....

The only way we could trade Marvin is in a packaged deal. Similar to the deal that got us Bibby. As far as the other teams go (and they watch tape), Marvin is just a 3/4 running around out there....getting very little done. The fool that gave Marvin a new contract should be shot (or at least wounded). Marvin is basically useless at this point.

[gsuteke]

I thought he played Paul Pierce pretty well last night.

[Atlantaholic]

I thought he played Paul Pierce pretty well last night.

He didn't really slow down Paul Pierce anymore than the average NBA player would IMO

[DJlaysitup]

Marvin plays solid defense but I have a feeling...

LOL - what games have you been watching FTT? Nocioni went past him like he was a statue. Marvin plays "lock down" defense??? Sure...

[h2t]

We're not trading Marvin. He's overpaid relative to his role right now but not grossly so. He's basically a bigger/better Evans which is really all we need from him.

[Chaze]

ok now all u marvin fans say how marvin is such a great defender he really isnt hes not a ron artest or somebody thats t i say trade him for rudy gay because rudy's not a bad defender like some of yall say he is we already no hes a future all star maybe:

rudy gays carreer defensive stats:

4.0 definsive rebounds per game

1.2 steals per game

0.9 blocks a game

marvin williams career defensive stats:

3.9 defensive rebounds per game

0.8 steals per game

0.4 steals per game

and i dont think yall want me to post offensive stats :helpsmilie:

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Edited November 14, 2009 by Chaze

[lunar]

gay is a horrible man defender, most if not all grizzlies fans would say that. with the exception of nocioni, none of marvin's assignments have had great games against us. even melo had a bad game when checked by marvin. if he can keep the opposing teams SF from going off on us, the backcourt and josh are going to outscore the opponents. i still remember nights when al harrington would just let the other SF waltz to the rim.

[hawkman]

No, we should hold off on the trade talk for now. We know we can get a solid 14 and 5 out of Marv by now. He's just in a slump right now. But I still say we should've burned a future 2nd on a Sam Young or Derrick Brown on draft night just for insurance. Marv is THE only SF on this team right now and that's a bit of a problem. Rudy Gay looks like a cool option, but there's something to be said about chemistry, which we seem to have right now. I think we need more of a Finley type at SF, thus my suggestion of a Young or Brown on draft night. At least Marv plays within the system, he's just missing shots right now.

[Buzzard]

No, we should hold off on the trade talk for now. We know we can get a solid 14 and 5 out of Marv by now. He's just in a slump right now. But I still say we should've burned a future 2nd on a Sam Young or Derrick Brown on draft night just for insurance. Marv is THE only SF on this team right now and that's a bit of a problem. Rudy Gay looks like a cool option, but there's something to be said about chemistry, which we seem to have right now. I think we need more of a Finley type at SF, thus my suggestion of a Young or Brown on draft night. At least Marv plays within the system, he's just missing shots right now.

Unless we get some serious value for him, trading Marvin is a waste. He is shooting poorly after just 9 games into the season; there is still 73 left to play. Every year all of our players have a bad month shooting and every year the red trade flags pop up.

We are winning with Marvin shooting poorly; and will only be that much better when the slump ends. And when the next one of our players goes into a slump, and someone will....having a good shooting Marvin will be needed. Its not like he is 35 years old and over the hill....

Edited November 15, 2009 by Buzzard

[DrReality]

All depends what the offers are. If there are any. I wouldn't do it too fast but for the right deal, Delta is ready when you are.

[Joker]

No, it's not beneficial to our success.

[Buzzard]

All depends what the offers are. If there are any. I wouldn't do it too fast but for the right deal, Delta is ready when you are.

I would trade anyone for the right deal! Kind of like saying if I knew I could win the lottery; I would play the lottery.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Buzzard

[sillent]

Is it time to trade Marvin Williams? Our 3rd pick from the 2005 draft has gone invisible this season. After getting a hefty contract this off season he isn't even averaging double-figures in 27+ minutes. His field goal % is down to nearly 40%, he is shooting a horrific .250% from 3PT range and is not even averaging an assist a game. These are not impressive stats, nor are they stats you expect from your starting SF who is averaging over 25 ppg. Could the Hawks potentially deal Marvin and a future pick for a player who would fit in better with the Hawks system? Marvin plays solid defense but I have a feeling we could trade him and get a better defensive SF and better shooter.

What are your thought?

R U Serious!! And this goes to all us Hawks fans who want to trade somebody who is still talented at 23. Marvin's a little off right now trying to refit in with a team with so many weapons and although might not be helping the team that much(at least on offense) he is not hurting the team(Hence 8-2 record). I don't care who you are you should not mess up a teams chemistry when things are going good. Marvin does fit good with our system he is just playing more of a utility role then a scorer. If other key players go down or competition increases than can you put a hit out on Williams and even then I say it's a losing situation (The return in most cases will not be better).

Patience People Patience Please !!

[sillent]

We are winning pretty dominantly(nobody has really played their best yet on our squad even if you want to make a case for our young bigs). Our only losses came on the road( A bad third quarter against the defending Champs "LAKERS" and a selfish game against the Bobcats who are pretty good against us "Mentor v.s. Pupil") and we already want to break up the chemistry?