Breaking News: WOODY IS GONE

[NJHAWK]

Bosh is going to get the max. It would prolly have to be Smoove and Marv or Smoove and Craw or maybe Smoove, ZaZa and Bibby. Thats alot to give up.

[JTB]

well so long woody its been good but it is time to move on. good luck in your future woody.

[niremetal]

Horford is better than Bosh regardless of the numbers.

Would love to see you bring that question to every NBA coach and GM and ask their opinion. Sorry, Horford's offensive game isn't even in the same galaxy as Bosh's, and Bosh's defense isn't so much worse than Horford's that it makes up the difference. There's a reason why Bosh is called a superstar and Horford is not, and it's not just marketing (which should be obvious since Bosh plays in freaking Canada).

In any case, the issue is Bosh/Smoove, not Bosh/Horford.

Edited May 15, 2010 by niremetal

[jezmund]

Horford is better than Bosh regardless of the numbers.

Bosh looked silly v. Horford and Smith. That's not saying much, Howard will make anyone look silly who's a PF.

Horford would be staying. Smith is an amazing talent that has made many players look silly with amazing plays. I'd just love to have the player that effects the game just about every night for 48 minutes. Chris Bosh would do that. JJ/Bosh/Horford and we can have a serious half-court offense.

I'm indifferent to whether it is Smith/Zaza/Bibby or Smith/Marvin, I just think with Jack/Calderon Toronto doesn't want another PG.

Teague

Johnson

Childress

Bosh

Horford

6th- Crawford

Edited May 15, 2010 by jezmund

[Endy9]

It was the right decision.

I think the Hawks needed a new direction and Woody needed a change of scenery.

SVG would be an interesting candidate.

Good luck Woody

For me, it was as hard as saying goodbye to Billy Knight. Both helped us out of the gutter, but it was time for both to go and better personnel to be brought in.

[Dsinner]

Please stick to the topic (Woody no Goody) and leave the Bosh/Smith debate out. It's giving me a headache to read this thread.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Compare the roster of the team each year to the following season. Just looking at the roster from one season to the next, given how devoid of talent and inexperienced it was to begin with almost guaranteed an upward trajectory. We are talking about a team that was historically bad, dangerously young, with minimal payroll. So again, that the team improved as it aged and increased payroll, is not so much of a surprise.

Just look at this year compared to last. Last year the team was younger, lost over 50 player games to injury just from the teams top 6 players and won 47 or so games. This year, the teams front line is a little older, they bring in a new sixth man at increased cost, sign two veteran big men and only lost around 10 player games to injury from the teams top 6 players. They won 53 games. The only player who you would expect to see a decline in performance from due to age was Bibby, but the team was theoretically attempting to mitigate that by bringing in Crawford and using a first round draft pick on the position. Just given those facts, wouldn't you expect an uptick in wins?

Uptick . . yeah. But most of you have on blinders about the level of talent on this team.

- Jamal Crawford was one of the most villified good players in the league. He was a player with talent, but not known as a player that makes a team better.

- Mike Bibby fell off TREMENDOUSLY this year.

- Marvin Williams surprisingly regressed this year, pretty much losing the ability to consistently make open jumpers.

- Mo Evans had his worst shooting season of his career

- Zaza played below standards up until about March, when he finally started to come around

- Joe Smith was nowhere near the player that people thought he would be, and was in decline as a player. ( which is why NO ONE even considered adding him to their rosters last summer )

- Jason Collins has been a garbage player for a while, only serving as a big body who does nothing but get in the way of people.

So when you look at this team, the talent that people thought we had 1 - 10, never really materialized. Our bench ( outside of Crawford ), was flat out horrible for about the first 50 games this season.

The best coaching move that Woody made this year, was playing Joe Johnson more at SF. It was a trend that we started to see last year, when Flip started to emerge as a viable 6th man that could play the 1 or the 2. This year, he didn't even waste time playing JJ at SF, especially if Marvin was struggling. He and Crawford had to play at the same time at some point in the game, and as long as Bibby was at least a threat, this team was rolling when the Bibby - Crawford - JJ backcourt hit the floor.

But when Bibby started to fall off, Woody made the decision to go more with Crawford as a scoring 1, with JJ at the 2, and increasing the playing time of Mo Evans when Marvin struggled. Now Woody took a lot of heat from the fans, because he was not playing Teague. But I'm sorry, Teague was underwhelming to me this season on defense and especially on offense. Woody went the easy route, and played Crawford more at the 1 as the season went along instead of trying to develop Teague. Without an extension and little job security, I pretty much can't blame him for doing that.

But if people want to go ahead and give the players all the credit for the success of the team, that's on them. But when you see a team win at the level that we did in the regular season . . .

- without solid PG play

- without a consistently good low post scoring threat ( especially against bigger teams)

- without consistent play from Marvin at SF ( especially from a shooting standpoint )

- without solid bench contributions on a nightly basis

- without a good defensive big man

. . then I have to give Woody some of the credit for playing lineups that overcame most of those deficiencies.

That dude simply did what he had to do, to win games.

I remember people being mad on this board . . MAD NOW . . because Woody significantly reduced the rotation in March of the 2007 - 08 season, in order to hold on to that #8 spot to make the playoffs. He would play 8 guys maximum, sometimes even 7. He would play Chill at 3 positions, just to keep a certain level of talent on the floor at all times. And people got MAD at that, partially because that meant that Acie wasn't playing ( a guy who was also underwhelming in his 2nd year ).

People were calling Woody "selfish" for doing that. Only doing that to save his job. Well no ish. It saved his job, and put this team on the path to where it is today. So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

Edited May 15, 2010 by northcyde

[Dsinner]

Uptick . . yeah. But most of you have on blinders about the level of talent on this team.

- Jamal Crawford was one of the most villified good players in the league. He was a player with talent, but not known as a player that makes a team better.

- Mike Bibby fell off TREMENDOUSLY this year.

- Marvin Williams surprisingly regressed this year, pretty much losing the ability to consistently make open jumpers.

- Mo Evans had his worst shooting season of his career

- Zaza played below standards up until about March, when he finally started to come around

- Joe Smith was nowhere near the player that people thought he would be, and was in decline as a player. ( which is why NO ONE even considered adding him to their rosters last summer )

- Jason Collins has been a garbage player for a while, only serving as a big body who does nothing but get in the way of people.

So when you look at this team, the talent that people thought we had 1 - 10, never really materialized. Our bench ( outside of Crawford ), was flat out horrible for about the first 50 games this season.

The best coaching move that Woody made this year, was playing Joe Johnson more at SF. It was a trend that we started to see last year, when Flip started to emerge as a viable 6th man that could play the 1 or the 2. This year, he didn't even waste time playing JJ at SF, especially if Marvin was struggling. He and Crawford had to play at the same time at some point in the game, and as long as Bibby was at least a threat, this team was rolling when the Bibby - Crawford - JJ backcourt hit the floor.

But when Bibby started to fall off, Woody made the decision to go more with Crawford as a scoring 1, with JJ at the 2, and increasing the playing time of Mo Evans when Marvin struggled. Now Woody took a lot of heat from the fans, because he was not playing Teague. But I'm sorry, Teague was underwhelming to me this season on defense and especially on offense. Woody went the easy route, and played Crawford more at the 1 as the season went along instead of trying to develop Teague. Without an extension and little job security, I pretty much can't blame him for doing that.

But if people want to go ahead and give the players all the credit for the success of the team, that's on them. But when you see a team win at the level that we did in the regular season . . .

- without solid PG play

- without a consistently good low post scoring threat ( especially against bigger teams)

- without consistent play from Marvin at SF ( especially from a shooting standpoint )

- without solid bench contributions on a nightly basis

- without a good defensive big man

. . then I have to give Woody some of the credit for playing lineups that overcame most of those deficiencies.

That dude simply did what he had to do, to win games.

I remember people being mad on this board . . MAD NOW . . because Woody significantly reduced the rotation in March of the 2007 - 08 season, in order to hold on to that #8 spot to make the playoffs. He would play 8 guys maximum, sometimes even 7. He would play Chill at 3 positions, just to keep a certain level of talent on the floor at all times. And people got MAD at that, partially because that meant that Acie wasn't playing ( a guy who was also underwhelming in his 2nd year ).

People were calling Woody "selfish" for doing that. Only doing that to save his job. Well no ish. It saved his job, and put this team on the path to where it is today. So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

So guys who have been above average bench guys their whole career suddenly forgot how to play? You're the one with woody-blinders if you can't see he failed to give them adequate PT and defined roles throughout the whole season. You can't keep their asses on the bench and then hope they contribute big time when they finally do get to play after 10 days off. It simply doesn't work like that. Our bench sucked BECAUSE of Woody.

[niremetal]

So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

People are only "objective" if they agree with your assessment of Woody? Arrogant much?

[Dsinner]

So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

Actually, the people who are the most objective about this team just fired him. They know the real deal.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So guys who have been above average bench guys their whole career suddenly forgot how to play? You're the one with woody-blinders if you can't see he failed to give them adequate PT and defined roles throughout the whole season. You can't keep their asses on the bench and then hope they contribute big time when they finally do get to play after 10 days off. It simply doesn't work like that. Our bench sucked BECAUSE of Woody.

Man please. We all knew that Crawford was going to take minutes away from guys. But when those other guys got in the game, they would routinely play horrible as a group. They knew their role, they just didn't produce. Our bench was in the bottom third of the league for most of the year, until Evans and Zaza finally started to play a little more consistently, starting in March.

LOL . . ya'll act like Woody has an X-Box controller, controlling the actions of these players. Guys like Mo and Zaza played every single night. And for the most part, they were sorry this year. I guess every bench player that sucks in the league, plays bad because the mean ol coach won't play them. Poor Acie is sorry, because 4 coaches refuse to give him time.

Woody has no good effect on a game, but is the root of all that is wrong with the Hawks? Mo plays sorry because of Woody? The same guy who shot a BRICK LAY-UP in Game 1 of the Orlando series? I guess that was Woody's fault too I guess. He took away Mo's lay-up making ability.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

People are only "objective" if they agree with your assessment of Woody? Arrogant much?

Nope. I say that people aren't objective when they give a coach no credit whatsoever for the success of a team, but everytime something goes wrong, he gets all the blame. That's what I call not being objective.

It's one thing to not like Woody. It's another thing to act like he controls every positive and negative action on the court. But he's gone now. We'll see if you guys will treat the next coach the same way Woody was treated, when something goes wrong with the Hawks.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So guys who have been above average bench guys their whole career suddenly forgot how to play?

And who has been "above average" bench guys their whole career? Surely not Mo or Zaza?

Joe Smith is OLD. It's a reason why Cleveland didn't even bother re-signing him last summer, along with every other team.

Same with Jason Collins. When his name was mentioned last year, most of the people on this board didn't even know who he was.

The only "above average" player on our bench, was the same guy who went on to win 6th man of the year . . . Jamal Crawford.

But go ahead . . play this game if you guys want. Act like people were just knocking down the door to sign Zaza last year. Act like people are just going to fall all over themselves to sign Mo Evans this year.

[Sothron]

People are only "objective" if they agree with your assessment of Woody? Arrogant much?

This. Woodson was the worst coach I've seen in any sport. For anyone to actually defend him just boggles the imagination.

[Dsinner]

Man please. We all knew that Crawford was going to take minutes away from guys. But when those other guys got in the game, they would routinely play horrible as a group. They knew their role, they just didn't produce. Our bench was in the bottom third of the league for most of the year, until Evans and Zaza finally started to play a little more consistently, starting in March.

LOL . . ya'll act like Woody has an X-Box controller, controlling the actions of these players. Guys like Mo and Zaza played every single night. And for the most part, they were sorry this year. I guess every bench player that sucks in the league, plays bad because the mean ol coach won't play them. Poor Acie is sorry, because 4 coaches refuse to give him time.

Woody has no good effect on a game, but is the root of all that is wrong with the Hawks? Mo plays sorry because of Woody? The same guy who shot a BRICK LAY-UP in Game 1 of the Orlando series? I guess that was Woody's fault too I guess. He took away Mo's lay-up making ability.

Sorry but guys like Joe Smith, Mo Evans and yes even ZaZa (Celtics anyone) have all been adequate reserves their entire career. Only you would argue this. Time to realize you are wrong about Woody. The fans now know it, sports writers know it, broadcasters know it and most importantly the Hawks organization knows it. You can keep being in denial about the man but unfortunately for you you're on what is now a very short list of Woody supporters. I think there's you and a couple of other guys on here and that's it. That should tell you a little something about what you perceive as factual.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Sorry but guys like Joe Smith, Mo Evans and yes even ZaZa (Celtics anyone) have all been adequate reserves their entire career. Only you would argue this. Time to realize you are wrong about Woody. The fans now know it, sports writers know it, broadcasters know it and most importantly the Hawks organization knows it. You can keep being in denial about the man but unfortunately for you you're on what is now a very short list of Woody supporters. I think there's you and a couple of other guys on here and that's it. That should tell you a little something about what you perceive as factual.

Well why weren't people beating down Joe Smith's door last summer? Why weren't people fawning all over Zaza last summer? Remember . . . guys like Antonio McDyess and Rasheed Wallace garnered all of the attention last year. Even Gortat got major attention.

Coaches coach . . Players perform.

Shoot . . look at the Flip Murray vs Acie Law situation in the 2008 - 09 season. Acie was in PERFECT POSITION to get a ton of playing time last year. If he played well, he and Bibby would've ended up splitting time. But then the Hawks go out and sign Flip ( another guy that people didn't want ), to a one-year deal.

Flip came right in here, and established that he was a MUCH BETTER player than Acie Law. I mean almost immediately. As Flip started the season like a champ, Acie fizzled badly. Acie played himself right out of playing time, with the poor beginning of the season he had. And even when Flip started to falter a little, Acie couldn't get his spot back. When Flip got it going again, Acie still didn't elevate his game to that next level as a reserve PG.

But people looooove to blame Woody for Acie's demise. Forget that. I was a HUGE Acie Law fan, but even I saw what was going on with him ( and unfortunately, it's the same thing I'm seeing in Teague ). He just didn't have the confidence in himself as a player, to go out and get the job done when the game is still in the balance.

But people love to make excuses as to why Acie didn't pan out here. Then you look at where he's been since.

- Golden St . . . where he couldn't beat out ex UT Vol C.J. Watson for the backup PG spot

- Charlotte . . . where he couldn't beat out former rival D.J. Augustin for the backup PG spot

- Chicago . . . where he couldn't crack the rotation to get minutes, allowing Del Negro to keep playing Hinrich like Woody did Crawford ( at both SG and PG ).

Sometimes, people just need to keep it real.

[Atlantaholic]

Who cares about the bench anyway, or Acie Law for that matter? Who the heck even brought him up in this thread???

Bottom line: This team was flat out dreadful during the playoffs this year. Our starters were completely healthy in the playoffs and they were dreadful. Flat out awful. This is the second season in a row this happens. Everybody around the NBA knows that the playoffs are when coaching matters. That's why Cleveland, despite being the best team in the NBA the last two years hasn't been able to make it to to the Eastern conference finals. That's why we look like a college team against every decent opponent we have faced in the playoffs. Woodson has one of the ugliest playoff records I have ever seen, we basically get hammered by 20 + every other game. The dude sucks. It is pretty damn obvious. We have been running the same sorry *ss offense whether its Tyronne Lue, Mike Bibby, or Jamal Crawford at PG. Think about that, we have had THE SAME offense for SIX YEARS (!) and in the playoffs our players look like they have no clue where they are supposed to be on the floor. How can this be? Well, our awesome head coach has gone on the record to say that he doesn't really care about coaching offense, and that "it will take care of itself". Considering we have been, if not THE worst, easily one of the two or three worst offenses in the playoffs the last three years, how can anyone in their right mind argue we shouldn't have gotten rid of this guy? We were the second most efficient offense in the NBA this year, and once the playoffs start and teams tighten the screws we look like we are the New Jersey Nets.

The only reason the guy lasted six seasons is because our ownership is cheap, that is a fact. In a world where we have half-decent ownership Woodson is fired after his third season and never gets a head coaching job ever again. Luckily for him though he will probably be able to flash that neat looking graphic of our win progression to land another gig on some rebuilding club somewhere.