Merged: Warriors looking to trade Monta Ellis for a big

[coachx]

It doesn't have to be Ellis..it could be Marvin for Childress..it could be Horford for Rudy Gay.. or Horford/Marvin for Derrick Williams/Beasley...there is mutiple f***in ways to blow the team up for all of u gettin your panties in a bunch..

Oh brother.............What part of Horford and BYC do you not understand ? Well, obviously none of it since you continually insist on trading Horford.

:beathorse:

Here you go I will spoon feed you so maybe you choose to educate yourself. Now I can't do the reading comprehension part for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap

Base year compensationCertain players in the first few months of a new contract are subject to base year compensation (BYC). The intent of BYC is to prevent teams from re-signing players to salaries specifically targeted to match other salaries in a trade (in other words, salary should be based on basketball value, not trade value). A BYC player's trade value as outgoing salary is 50% of his new salary, or his previous salary, whichever is greater. BYC applies only to players who re-sign with their previous team and receive a raise greater than 20%. It also applies only when (and as long as) the team is over the salary cap.

Now you need basic reasoning and thinking skills to complete the thought once knowing what BYC means. How can a team right at the luxury tax take back twice the salary they give up in a trade ?

Edited June 7, 2011 by coachx

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If Zaza could defensive rebound better, I would definitely do the move. But he's just not there yet.

Oh brother.............What part of Horford and BYC do you not understand ? Well, obviously none of it since you continually insist on trading Horford.

:beathorse:

Here you go I will spoon feed you so maybe you choose to educate yourself. Now I can't do the reading comprehension part for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap

Now you need basic reasoning and thinking skills to complete the thought once knowing what BYC means. How can a team right at the luxury tax take back twice the salary they give up in a trade ?

OK . . so Horford is out of the picture. Smith would have to be the one that is shipped out then. Just have to replace him with a rebounding big man who can defend a little.

[Bawse]

I got someone for them, he wears the jersey #24, some like to call him duck sauce....

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It looks to me as if Dallas runs a motion offense. Kidd is directing traffic like crazy out there. Chandler and Marion are rarely standing still on offense. Dirk and JT are running and curling off screens plenty.

The triangle is full of motion that Phil Jackson ran. Even Kobe admits the Lakers are not at their best when he falls in love with isos causing his teamates do not get involved. Get Bynum and Gasol some touches in the paint and they all of the sudden start playing with more eneregy on defense.

Now iso plays are fine to close out a game, when you have a superior scorer, but that can't be your offense for 48 minutes.

I just don't see Ellis as a "PG" that makes those around him better. Will he put up allstar #'s ? Sure he will but I just don't see him as a winner.

Like I said coachx. If people don't believe the current mix can win, why not change up the mix? With Jamal Crawford seemingly out of the picture, we'll have to replace him with a shot creator anyway, or hope Teague can play at the level he did during the playoffs.

Our frontline is undersized and we have very few shot creators on the team. I just don't know if we'd ever find a player as good as Monta in the near future.

PG - Monta

G - Johnson

F - Marvin

F - Horford

C - Zaza

PG - Teague

G - Hinrich

That would be your new 7. So we'd have to fill the rest of the roster with serviceable, but cheap bigs. Basically the same as last year. It's just now, we'd be guard heavy, and Marvin may have to really step up as a hybrid SF/PF.

At the very least, I think that team could duplicate the 44 wins we had this year, along with possibly getting to the 2nd round and losing. But if we found a decent big that stepped up to do the dirty work, it might make us a better team all around. So the priority in free agency would be to find a serviceable C or rugged PF who could at the very least rebound the basketball.

( shrugging shoulders )

If we can't find that big that everyone wants, why not go the opposite way?

Edited June 7, 2011 by northcyde

[capstone21]

Like I said coachx. If people don't believe the current mix can win, why not change up the mix? With Jamal Crawford seemingly out of the picture, we'll have to replace him with a shot creator anyway, or hope Teague can play at the level he did during the playoffs.

Our frontline is undersized and we have very few shot creators on the team. I just don't know if we'd ever find a player as good as Monta in the near future.

PG - Monta

G - Johnson

F - Marvin

F - Horford

C - Zaza

Even if you threw that lineup out there, we'd be weaker defensively, but much better offensively. So the priority in free agency would be to find a serviceable C pr rugged PF who could at the very least rebound the basketball.

That is not a good team imo. Monta has never been and never will be a pg. He looks for his shot first and his shot selection is nothing to write home about. He can score a lot of points but he also takes a lot of shots. I dont think he is a good fit for this team.

[Bawse]

If anything, Joe should be moved to the SF position and we start Monta at the 2, with Teague/Hinrich at the point. That is, assuming Kirk would stay here if the trade went down.

[capstone21]

If anything, Joe should be moved to the SF position and we start Monta at the 2, with Teague/Hinrich at the point. That is, assuming Kirk would stay here if the trade went down.

If we did make that trade (I hope we don't) then we would have to keep Kirk. Mini me backcourt of Teague/Monta would be bad

[Diesel]

Horford is BYC making him near impossible to trade.

Ellis is no superstar. If he was legit superstar then the Warriors would have been in the playoffs and not the lottery. He is just a undersized, high volume shooter, that scores alot on a poor team. The problem with the ATL is that too many like flash over substance.

Not here to defend any trade... But this statement is not true.

Kobe has played and the Lakers have been in the lottery. Kobe is a superstar. Just because you're a superstar doesn't mean that your team automatically reaches the playoffs. There are far too many variables ... Such as Injuries, strength of the conference and team chemistry.

I wonder why people are so enamored with a "motion offense" that didn't work in ATL. Matter of fact, which of the final 4 teams in the NBA playoffs this year ran a "motion offense"?

You team Monta with JJ, and you now have one of the NBA's best backcourts that people can't constantly throw a double team at. There's your 1a and 1b that people have been talking about.

And we've been covering for weak defending PGs for years on this team. I'm sure we could cover for Monta's defense. Then again, Monta has never played alongside a 2 that defends as well as JJ either. So who knows if his defense wouldn't improve just from that aspect alone. Monta has more trouble defending bigger 2s, than he does defending quick 1s.

But bringing him in would mean that Teague would be the reserve or an afterthought. And the sentiment amongst most fans is that Teague is the next big thing . . based off of the 6 games he played vs Chicago.

I don't know.

Monta has an all-star caliber game that just hasn't been recognized yet. And I don't know which I would rather give up . . Josh Smith or Al Horford? If a move like that was made, it would be paramount to bring in a center that could at the very least rebound at a high rate. A guy like Dalembert would have to be a priority then.

ASG would never do a move like that though. Sund thinks "we're close" and he hasn't taken a major risk ( other than signing JJ to that mega contract . . . and even that wasn't a major risk ) since he's been in ATL

I agree with your points about the possible success of JJ/Monta.. But I'm willing to give Teague/Hinrich or Teague/Vet a chance. The reason being is that I want to see us move away from Guard by committee and move to a floor general type situation. It is great to have many ball handlers, but right now, JJ's value for us is playing off ball and letting the ball handler get everybody involved.

[Dragitoff]

That is not a good team imo. Monta has never been and never will be a pg. He looks for his shot first and his shot selection is nothing to write home about. He can score a lot of points but he also takes a lot of shots. I dont think he is a good fit for this team.

Keep in mind Monta shot over 45% last season and over 36% from 3pt range. That's not horrible for a guy averaging over 24ppg, especially not for $11 million per. We're paying Joe alot more than that for less production although Joe does contribute on the defensive end. I'm not against a deal bringing Monta here for the right deal and the right surrounding cast.

[Diesel]

Now you need basic reasoning and thinking skills to complete the thought once knowing what BYC means. How can a team right at the luxury tax take back twice the salary they give up in a trade ?

coach they can do it if they are under the cap.

Teams like Minnesota, NJ, Denver, Charlotte.. Etc.. should be under enough to do the damn deal. Not to mention, we don't know if there will be amnesty as mentioned previously stated, that could definitely make some things happen.

There is a playground to play on...

[coachx]

coach they can do it if they are under the cap.

Teams like Minnesota, NJ, Denver, Charlotte.. Etc.. should be under enough to do the damn deal. Not to mention, we don't know if there will be amnesty as mentioned previously stated, that could definitely make some things happen.

There is a plyground to play on........

Ya, but that playground is extrememly small and limited in terms of trading Horford while a BYC.

I was orginally refering to a Horford for Ellis trade that the thread was built around. We could only take back 50% of Horford's contract. Ellis makes $11 mill per year.....way more then 50% of Horford's 2011-12 salary.

Edited June 7, 2011 by coachx

[Atlantaholic]

Would they consider Josh as a big?

If we've given up on Josh and want to trade him I can't think of a better offer than Monta Ellis. Then our next move would be to deal Joe Johnson for a replacement at PF.

I would think about it.

[Diesel]

Ya, but that playground is extrememly small and limited in terms of trading Horford while a BYC.

I was orginally refering to a Horford for Ellis trade that the thread was built around. We could only take back 50% of Horford's contract. Ellis makes $11 mill per year.....way more then 50% of Horford's 2011-12 salary.

The fact that there are playgrounds opens up anything.

These playground teams can be salary acceptors too.

For instance:

Marvin/Horf to LAL

Bynum/1st rounder LAL 2012 to Minny

Darko/Johnson/#2 to Atlanta.

That works because most of the capspace needed for the Horf deal is shed off to Minny.

BYC Horf has been traded, we have created cap space.

etc.

[LastDon]

Horford should be packaged with Marvin..the Marvin Williams experiment is over..This team needs makeover and Al Horford is the only Hawk who could bring back Equal value..

[Diesel]

Horford should be packaged with Marvin..the Marvin Williams experiment is over..This team needs makeover and Al Horford is the only Hawk who could bring back Equal value..

I agree with that too. I believe Horf is really good but I don't think he brings the complete skillset we need and his constant whining about position and his disappearing act really makes me want to move him for a need and if he can take Marvin too.. GREAT!!!

[vdunkndunk]

Josh Smith and Marvin Williams for Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins worked on the ESPN trade machine.

I might like that trade, except in looking at Biedrins's stats, his production is way down for the last two years - not sure why. His PER was around 19 for several years in a row, but the last two years it's been around 12. Anyone know why he's playing so much worse?

Anyway, assuming Biedins could get back on track, that would give us a lineup something like this:

PG: Jeff Teague / Kirk Hinrich

SG: Monta Ellis / Hinrich or Crawford

SF: Joe Johnson / Crawford or Wilkins

PF: Al Horford / Zaza

C: Andris Biedrins / Zaza

We'd have more quickness in the backcourt than we've had in a while, but less length; and we'd have more length in the frontcourt, but less quickness.

(Edit: Just looked at Ellis's stats a little closer and I don't think I'm a fan.)

Edited June 7, 2011 by vdunkndunk

[AHawks89]

Let's just get Iverson as a backup PG/SG.

Edited June 7, 2011 by AHawks89

[capstone21]

Keep in mind Monta shot over 45% last season and over 36% from 3pt range. That's not horrible for a guy averaging over 24ppg, especially not for $11 million per. We're paying Joe alot more than that for less production although Joe does contribute on the defensive end. I'm not against a deal bringing Monta here for the right deal and the right surrounding cast.

Monta is an undersized sg who doesn't play any defense and he is me first player on the offensive end. I think chemistry wise he doesn't bring it and on defense he is a big detriement.

I know he has nice numbers but stats don't paint the picture.

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

I posted this trade on June 1st. Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Zaza for Monta and Biedrins. They get a wing in Marvin, a wing that can play some PF in Josh, and a big in Zaza. They get a little of everything and they get to unload there 2 biggest contracts. Get her done Sund

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/359912-josh-smith-trade-idea/

Edited June 7, 2011 by TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA

[AHawks89]

I posted this trade on June 1st. Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Zaza for Monta and Biedrins. They get a wing in Marvin, a wing that can play some PF in Josh, and a big in Zaza. They get a little of everything and they get to unload there 2 biggest contracts. Get her done Sund

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/359912-josh-smith-trade-idea/

Uh.. definitely not this.