It's clear. Al and Hinrich are luxuries, not necessities

[Nicholasp27]

Miami beat the hawks without lebron/wade so I guess those guys are luxuries, not necessities

[dalamchops]

Miami beat the hawks without lebron/wade so I guess those guys are luxuries, not necessities

Atlanta beat the Heat with bron and wade. What's your point?

[Joker]

I agree with this. Smoove does have a good package, he's just got a big flaw. EGO. In a way, I am glad that Tmac is here. TMac was about as talented as they come. He has walked in Smoove's shoes, in fact, he invented those shoes. I think he can get in Smoove's ear in a way that Joe never could. I smile when I see TMac on the bench talking to Smoove. I know that TMac is coaching him to do better from the perspective of a guy that can empathize. Unfortunately Teague is just a rookie and don't know how to reign Smoove in or control him.

Part of me would love to see us trade Horf/Hinrich for Gortat/Nash

Reason, half a season with Nash.

Reason, Gortat's not so bad.

Gortat/Smoove - good fit at C/Pf.

But mainly, Teague could learn so much from Nash and how to play tough and how to control the game.

Meh. I want nothing to do with ANY of your trades ever outside of the Dwight ones. How about we trade Smith instead. I have almost no interest in trading Horford. I have little interest in trading Smith.

No one on this team is a luxury.

Edited January 23, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Jody23]

Disclaimer: Some are saying it's only been a few games. While I agree, I think that in Horford's absence, certain players are forced to step up. Mainly our "Big 3". JJ, Teague, and Smoove - none of these guys have a problem scoring. A jumper from Al is just as good as a Teague penetration, JJ anything, or Smove inside (he's actually looking better on his moves to the rim). Certainly, we are a better team with these guys. But that much better?

Horf goes out the 1st quarter against Indiana - we outscore them in the 2nd. Only down a basket by halftime. We held them to 16 points in the last quarter. Save for a disasterous 3rd quarter (....smh @those who don't see the pattern, *sigh*), that was a competitive game. Then we go on a 4 game winning streak until the Philly game. We held our own. We had them owned until...again, adjustments by the opposition. 10 points in the 3rd... Then we come back and beat the dog s*** out of Cleveland.

It's not a good indicator that Horford isn't needed. But it is a good indicator that we could swap him for a different piece and see if it makes a difference. I think it's been said enough that eventually, one of Josh or Horf should be moved for the right piece.

But Josh as opposed to Al? I think it's more a question of stock. I think Al's stock may be higher because he has made the Allstar team, he's a proven leader, he's a quality big and a natural PF (as opposed to a 3/4 tweener). He also doesn't have the attitude issues of Smoove or the well documented penchant for taking bad shots. He's been a league leader in FG%. Plus he CAN play center. Plus he hasn't made any comments about wanting to play elsewhere (as opposed to the stealth remarks Smoove has made about appreciation, or lack thereof).

From a talent perspective, I bet there are plenty of teams hoping we put Smoove on the block - so they can lowball us on him. They know he's an explosive X-Factor. Those of us who really appreciate his game know it too. It's just a matter of getting his head right. It's a tough call, but if I was forced to trade one of them...I'd deal Al. No way I'd give up Smoove's ability to just do it all over the court. He is amazing when he plays under control. I think he just needs the right players around him and the right coach to keep him in check. Joe ain't gonna do it. LD won't even bench him. Marvin is...pfft. lol Teague's basically a rookie. Nobody here to check him (imagine him playing under Kobe or KG, with Pop or Skils....man that jumpshot s*** wouldn't happen).

So short answer is, I don't think Smoove would get us as much...but he's just as valuable if not moreso. And I'd deal Al first IF I had to.

Interesting take, but if I had to choose, I'd deal Smoove. I think a package of Smoove and Hinrich could net substantial return. For all the good things Smoove does on the floor, I think his consistent undisciplined play hurts the team alot. When you see a guy get the green light to basically do what he wants on the floor without consequence, as a teammate you've got to be ticked because if you did the same, you get benched or chewed out. It sends the wrong message to me.

I'm one who's a proponent of size and I like Al's size at the 4 more than Josh. I'd like to see what would happen if the Hawks brought in a stud 2/3 swing guy to pair with Joe, Teague and Horf. As exciting as Josh is at times, he's not going to change and I'd like to see what happens if the team played a more consistent, disciplined style. Just my opinion.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Jody23

[AHawks89]

We need to get rid of Al & Kirk for a legit center, unless we can get a decent legit center by trading only Kirk. Imagine having a big guy who can score in the paint willingly. That would be perfect for Teague, Joe, Marvin, & Josh. We all know Al can't play the PF position. He's been on a decline anyways. Bring in a legit center sund!

Edited January 23, 2012 by AHawks89

[warcore]

It is my understanding that players can't be traded while injured. So here is what I don't understand...

Why are people saying package Hinrich and Horford in a trade? Well, Horford can't be traded before the deadline because he's hurt, so he would have to be dealt in the offseason. Hinrich is gone this offseason and would have to be traded before the deadline.

Is there something I'm missing, or is it impossible to trade them together?

[Admin]

It is my understanding that players can't be traded while injured. So here is what I don't understand...

Why are people saying package Hinrich and Horford in a trade? Well, Horford can't be traded before the deadline because he's hurt, so he would have to be dealt in the offseason. Hinrich is gone this offseason and would have to be traded before the deadline.

Is there something I'm missing, or is it impossible to trade them together?

I don't know of any rule that you can't trade an injured player. I know that on NBA 2k that you can't, but I think that's just a video game rule. I can't find anything in the old CBA about trading injured players either.

[MaceCase]

It is my understanding that players can't be traded while injured. So here is what I don't understand...

Why are people saying package Hinrich and Horford in a trade? Well, Horford can't be traded before the deadline because he's hurt, so he would have to be dealt in the offseason. Hinrich is gone this offseason and would have to be traded before the deadline.

Is there something I'm missing, or is it impossible to trade them together?

Teams can waive physicals.

[Admin]

We need to get rid of Al & Kirk for a legit center, unless we can get a decent legit center by trading only Kirk.

Imagine having a big guy who can score in the paint willingly. - how many guys are there like that in the league? And how many of that limited number of guys are available via trade? Not many, if any.

That would be perfect for Teague, Joe, Marvin, & Josh.

We all know Al can't play the PF position. - he can't? Since when? And when did we pair him with a legit starting caliber center to even try that out?

He's been on a decline anyways. - just because he was having a "down" year so far this year doesn't mean he's on the decline. That's almost comical considering he's coming off of back to back All-Star seasons and is still a young player on the rise.

Bring in a legit center sund!

[Bahamut]

Al has been out for like 5 games. In other words, the sample size of what this team looks like without Al is too small to make any kind of sound judgement.

This upcoming roadtrip will tell the tale.

[MaceCase]

Without coincidence it's been made clear that Dwyane Wade and Derrick Rose are luxury items as well, would it be possible to trade said items like a couple of old blue blood tycoons?

Edited January 23, 2012 by MaceCase

[AHawks89]

We can trade Al & Kirk for any legit center that can score in the paint willingly. I think it's safe to say Al can not play any better at the PF position than the C. You can argue all you want, but fact is, Al has his advantages at the C position because he is smaller and quicker than most C, and can take that close to mid-range jumper. There are way to many PF's in the league that are way to athletic for Al to guard. You can also say the same with Smoove about not having a legit big man Center for Smoove to play by. I also was exaggerating about his decline years. I think it's fun to poke at the people who believe Al is the golden child on the Hawks, when yet, he's not even the best player on the team.

[sturt]

The other problem with trading Al is his BYC-ness for the next year.

Nah... trading Horford isn't even a remotely appealing thing to me.

Hinrich merits only a maybe.

[AHawks89]

I would like to see Kirk + whoever for Kaman.

Teague, Joe, Josh, Al, Kaman. Ahh nice.

[BrazilianHawk]

Disclaimer: Some are saying it's only been a few games. While I agree, I think that in Horford's absence, certain players are forced to step up. Mainly our "Big 3". JJ, Teague, and Smoove - none of these guys have a problem scoring. A jumper from Al is just as good as a Teague penetration, JJ anything, or Smove inside (he's actually looking better on his moves to the rim). Certainly, we are a better team with these guys. But that much better?

Horf goes out the 1st quarter against Indiana - we outscore them in the 2nd. Only down a basket by halftime. We held them to 16 points in the last quarter. Save for a disasterous 3rd quarter (....smh @those who don't see the pattern, *sigh*), that was a competitive game. Then we go on a 4 game winning streak until the Philly game. We held our own. We had them owned until...again, adjustments by the opposition. 10 points in the 3rd... Then we come back and beat the dog s*** out of Cleveland.

It's not a good indicator that Horford isn't needed. But it is a good indicator that we could swap him for a different piece and see if it makes a difference. I think it's been said enough that eventually, one of Josh or Horf should be moved for the right piece.

But Josh as opposed to Al? I think it's more a question of stock. I think Al's stock may be higher because he has made the Allstar team, he's a proven leader, he's a quality big and a natural PF (as opposed to a 3/4 tweener). He also doesn't have the attitude issues of Smoove or the well documented penchant for taking bad shots. He's been a league leader in FG%. Plus he CAN play center. Plus he hasn't made any comments about wanting to play elsewhere (as opposed to the stealth remarks Smoove has made about appreciation, or lack thereof).

From a talent perspective, I bet there are plenty of teams hoping we put Smoove on the block - so they can lowball us on him. They know he's an explosive X-Factor. Those of us who really appreciate his game know it too. It's just a matter of getting his head right. It's a tough call, but if I was forced to trade one of them...I'd deal Al. No way I'd give up Smoove's ability to just do it all over the court. He is amazing when he plays under control. I think he just needs the right players around him and the right coach to keep him in check. Joe ain't gonna do it. LD won't even bench him. Marvin is...pfft. lol Teague's basically a rookie. Nobody here to check him (imagine him playing under Kobe or KG, with Pop or Skils....man that jumpshot s*** wouldn't happen).

So short answer is, I don't think Smoove would get us as much...but he's just as valuable if not moreso. And I'd deal Al first IF I had to.

I really like your posts, Wretch. As opposed to some of us, you always back your arguments with a reasonable line of though. I must, however, disagree to you in which of them we should deal first.

I mean, I have it very clear in my mind the ASG won't change the coaching staff OR put the right players around Josh, and therefore he will always be who he is in this team: a schizophrenic birdbrain who can lead the team to wonderful wins or simply pull them all into a black hole with his streaky shooting and lazy play. I think Josh is the more complete player and that he has the higher ceiling, but Al would fit better as our PF, just because he doesn't want to be the one who tries to do it all. There are other players in the team. Josh can't be fixed. Not here, not now. I'd try to deal him, but not until the end of the season, before getting rid of Horf. Maybe to a really bad team for some young guy and a first. There are plenty of them on those teams, Cousins, MarShon, Monroe, McGee, maybe even Noah could be had for the right deal.

Edited January 24, 2012 by BrazilianHawk

[BrazilianHawk]

We can trade Al & Kirk for any legit center that can score in the paint willingly. I think it's safe to say Al can not play any better at the PF position than the C. You can argue all you want, but fact is, Al has his advantages at the C position because he is smaller and quicker than most C, and can take that close to mid-range jumper. There are way to many PF's in the league that are way to athletic for Al to guard. You can also say the same with Smoove about not having a legit big man Center for Smoove to play by. I also was exaggerating about his decline years. I think it's fun to poke at the people who believe Al is the golden child on the Hawks, when yet, he's not even the best player on the team.

Who's the best player on the team? I would still say Joe is, but something inside me tells me you're thinking Birdbrain Josh... Granted he is the best talent, but he's not very smart to use it the way all of us know he should...

Edited January 24, 2012 by BrazilianHawk

[Bahamut]

I wonder what kind of player Josh would be today had we made Doc Rivers head coach instead of Woody Woodpecker.

[atlbraves93]

I wonder what kind of player Josh would be today had we made Doc Rivers head coach instead of Woody Woodpecker.

I kind of think the Big 3 made Doc Rivers seem like a better coach than he actually is. Just IMO, tho

[Guest]

I kind of think the Big 3 made Doc Rivers seem like a better coach than he actually is. Just IMO, tho

People forget Doc was about to get axed when Boston traded for KG and Ray - I always say you need players to win rings.

[atlbraves93]

People forget Doc was about to get axed when Boston traded for KG and Ray - I always say you need players to win rings.

Yeah, he went 24-58 with a pretty solid roster the year before; he said he'd be working for ESPN if not for the KG deal