It's clear. Al and Hinrich are luxuries, not necessities

[NineOhTheRino]

Does this team really need Al and Kirk? I hope Sund is paying attention. I think this is the same team without them. They crush weaker competition and sometimes struggle against better competition. The Hawks are in a good place with the emergence of Teague and quality play from backup big guys. Time to make some moves.

Edited January 23, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Sothron]

I have to say with Kaman getting almost no floor time now in NO why not flip Hinrich for Kaman? Both are expiring and we could use Kaman for the rest of the year with Al out.

[Jody23]

Does this team really need Al and Kirk? I hope Sund is paying attention. I think this is the same team without them. They crush weaker competition and sometimes struggle against better competition. The Hawks are in a good place with the emergence of Teague and quality play from backup big guys. Time to make some moves.

I think Hinrich may be moved because of the circumstance with Teague emerging and Pargo playing solid, but I don't think Al is going anywhere. I do think it's past time to make some significant move, but imo, Al is not the guy I'd deal.

[Guest]

We are not a good enough team, don't have a super star player, depending on Zaza as a primary center where you can say "Al and Kirk are luxuries". We've beat the bad teams we are supposed to beat at home since Al went down. Having depth at center and guard particularly in this compact schedule is important.

Edited January 23, 2012 by JayBirdHawk

[coachx]

I have to say with Kaman getting almost no floor time now in NO why not flip Hinrich for Kaman? Both are expiring and we could use Kaman for the rest of the year with Al out.

That would be a great deal to round out this roster.

[Wretch]

An underlying theme here is something that's been discussed before - that ultimately one of Al or Josh should be moved. People really don't like the idea of moving Al, but a package of him + Hinrich (who I'd hate to deal ) is pretty attractive. We're not going to move Marvin for the kind of piece we expect to contend with. These are the kinds of moves that the better teams make. No doubt when they hit a plateau like we have.

If you could get a more post oriented PF or a big....maybe even a higher scoring SF with potential, do you make this deal? I'm not talking about flipping Al for filler - the guy IS an Allstar. I mean, bringing a guy back with equal (maybe even better) potential at a position we could use. As opposed to duplicating the PF spot with the two guys we have...

I wouldn't say they are expendable. But so far, the team is showing that it isn't that much worse off without those two. They'll only get better with their return (or they should). And I think the key to moving up is to make something happen here.

[Blunt91]

How does Kirk make the Hornets better? They have enough guards in Jack, Marco Belinelli, and Eric Gordon.

[JohnnyCASH]

ill say it one more time al horford and willie for mcgee,nick young 1st rd pick

al horford for cousions,salmons

al horford for gortat,and dudley

Edited January 23, 2012 by cptkirksavetheday

[Admin]

ill say it one more time al horford and willie for mcgee,nick young 1st rd pick

al horford for cousions,salmons

al horford for gortat,and dudley

I'll say it one more time... no fantasy trades in the Homecourt forum.

[Sothron]

How does Kirk make the Hornets better? They have enough guards in Jack, Marco Belinelli, and Eric Gordon.

Gordon is still hurt and it sounds like he has something wrong with his knee. Belinelli is a bench player forced to start and Jack is decent. Kirk would give them a starter PG or a SG or a sixth man. It certainly benefits them more than having Kaman riding the pine while they play musical chairs with their big men.

[Jody23]

An underlying theme here is something that's been discussed before - that ultimately one of Al or Josh should be moved. People really don't like the idea of moving Al, but a package of him + Hinrich (who I'd hate to deal ) is pretty attractive. We're not going to move Marvin for the kind of piece we expect to contend with. These are the kinds of moves that the better teams make. No doubt when they hit a plateau like we have.

If you could get a more post oriented PF or a big....maybe even a higher scoring SF with potential, do you make this deal? I'm not talking about flipping Al for filler - the guy IS an Allstar. I mean, bringing a guy back with equal (maybe even better) potential at a position we could use. As opposed to duplicating the PF spot with the two guys we have...

I wouldn't say they are expendable. But so far, the team is showing that it isn't that much worse off without those two. They'll only get better with their return (or they should). And I think the key to moving up is to make something happen here.

Insightful post. However, let me ask this. Do you think it's possible for this team to improve by trading Smoove instead of Al? Just playing devil's advocate.

[JohnnyCASH]

I'll say it one more time... no fantasy trades in the Homecourt forum.

wtf you didnt say crap bout anyone else but when i include your man crush AL you clearly get pissed

Edited January 23, 2012 by cptkirksavetheday

[AHF]

wtf you didnt say crap bout anyone else but when i include your man crush AL you clearly get pissed

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/359796-topics-involving-non-rumored-trade-ideas-dont-belong-in-the-homecourt-forum/

[sturt]

The competition we've played since Al's departure is, for the most part, not playoff caliber... so I don't agree with the premise of the question.

The Kaman idea, though, has some appeal because we could really use a legitimate back to the basket scoring threat come playoff time... you need that guy you can go to down low when the jump shots aren't falling.

I hate to put such a big burden on Teague, though, and really think Hinrich's defense could be huge in the playoffs... so I'm intrigued but not quite sold.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Al has been out for like 5 games. In other words, the sample size of what this team looks like without Al is too small to make any kind of sound judgement.

[Diesel]

Insightful post. However, let me ask this. Do you think it's possible for this team to improve by trading Smoove instead of Al? Just playing devil's advocate.

This was the purpose of my post previously. I think Wretch is right, a hard decision will have to be made ( trade Josh or Horf) before we make the harder expected decision (amenesty Joe). Trading Josh now is the same as tanking this season. I say tanking loosely but what I mean is that with Josh, we still got a chance of doing something in the post season, without him, it's doubtful. Trading Horf is trading him to a team that's in the tank. There are some players whoose name is bounced around: Bogut, Jefferson, D-Jordan, BLopez, Gortat/Nash, Kaman/1st,... Then there are young guys we don't mention much: Greg Monroe, McGee.

[Wretch]

Insightful post. However, let me ask this. Do you think it's possible for this team to improve by trading Smoove instead of Al? Just playing devil's advocate.

Disclaimer: Some are saying it's only been a few games. While I agree, I think that in Horford's absence, certain players are forced to step up. Mainly our "Big 3". JJ, Teague, and Smoove - none of these guys have a problem scoring. A jumper from Al is just as good as a Teague penetration, JJ anything, or Smove inside (he's actually looking better on his moves to the rim). Certainly, we are a better team with these guys. But that much better?

Horf goes out the 1st quarter against Indiana - we outscore them in the 2nd. Only down a basket by halftime. We held them to 16 points in the last quarter. Save for a disasterous 3rd quarter (....smh @those who don't see the pattern, *sigh*), that was a competitive game. Then we go on a 4 game winning streak until the Philly game. We held our own. We had them owned until...again, adjustments by the opposition. 10 points in the 3rd... Then we come back and beat the dog s*** out of Cleveland.

It's not a good indicator that Horford isn't needed. But it is a good indicator that we could swap him for a different piece and see if it makes a difference. I think it's been said enough that eventually, one of Josh or Horf should be moved for the right piece.

But Josh as opposed to Al? I think it's more a question of stock. I think Al's stock may be higher because he has made the Allstar team, he's a proven leader, he's a quality big and a natural PF (as opposed to a 3/4 tweener). He also doesn't have the attitude issues of Smoove or the well documented penchant for taking bad shots. He's been a league leader in FG%. Plus he CAN play center. Plus he hasn't made any comments about wanting to play elsewhere (as opposed to the stealth remarks Smoove has made about appreciation, or lack thereof).

From a talent perspective, I bet there are plenty of teams hoping we put Smoove on the block - so they can lowball us on him. They know he's an explosive X-Factor. Those of us who really appreciate his game know it too. It's just a matter of getting his head right. It's a tough call, but if I was forced to trade one of them...I'd deal Al. No way I'd give up Smoove's ability to just do it all over the court. He is amazing when he plays under control. I think he just needs the right players around him and the right coach to keep him in check. Joe ain't gonna do it. LD won't even bench him. Marvin is...pfft. lol Teague's basically a rookie. Nobody here to check him (imagine him playing under Kobe or KG, with Pop or Skils....man that jumpshot s*** wouldn't happen).

So short answer is, I don't think Smoove would get us as much...but he's just as valuable if not moreso. And I'd deal Al first IF I had to.

[Diesel]

It's a tough call, but if I was forced to trade one of them...I'd deal Al. No way I'd give up Smoove's ability to just do it all over the court. He is amazing when he plays under control. I think he just needs the right players around him and the right coach to keep him in check. Joe ain't gonna do it. LD won't even bench him. Marvin is...pfft. lol Teague's basically a rookie. Nobody here to check him (imagine him playing under Kobe or KG, with Pop or Skils....man that jumpshot s*** wouldn't happen).

So short answer is, I don't think Smoove would get us as much...but he's just as valuable if not moreso. And I'd deal Al first IF I had to.

I agree with this. Smoove does have a good package, he's just got a big flaw. EGO. In a way, I am glad that Tmac is here. TMac was about as talented as they come. He has walked in Smoove's shoes, in fact, he invented those shoes. I think he can get in Smoove's ear in a way that Joe never could. I smile when I see TMac on the bench talking to Smoove. I know that TMac is coaching him to do better from the perspective of a guy that can empathize. Unfortunately Teague is just a rookie and don't know how to reign Smoove in or control him.

Part of me would love to see us trade Horf/Hinrich for Gortat/Nash

Reason, half a season with Nash.

Reason, Gortat's not so bad.

Gortat/Smoove - good fit at C/Pf.

But mainly, Teague could learn so much from Nash and how to play tough and how to control the game.

[atlbraves93]

They would want way more for Nash.

[Admin]

wtf you didnt say crap bout anyone else but when i include your man crush AL you clearly get pissed

Umm my man crush Al? I don't have a man crush on any player on this team and I'm open to any of them being traded.

AHF got you straightened out there so just follow his link and you'll be ok.

I agree with this. Smoove does have a good package, he's just got a big flaw. EGO. In a way, I am glad that Tmac is here. TMac was about as talented as they come. He has walked in Smoove's shoes, in fact, he invented those shoes. I think he can get in Smoove's ear in a way that Joe never could. I smile when I see TMac on the bench talking to Smoove. I know that TMac is coaching him to do better from the perspective of a guy that can empathize. Unfortunately Teague is just a rookie and don't know how to reign Smoove in or control him.

Part of me would love to see us trade Horf/Hinrich for Gortat/Nash

Reason, half a season with Nash.

Reason, Gortat's not so bad.

Gortat/Smoove - good fit at C/Pf.

But mainly, Teague could learn so much from Nash and how to play tough and how to control the game.

Diesel you know better than anyone else about sneaking in fantasy trades so please respect the rules. Any more fantasy trades and I'm going to lock this thread and any others where this type of thing continues. You're free to discuss fantasy trades to your hearts content in the proper forum for it.