If you could, would trade JJ for a lottery pick?

[Sothron]

We haven't even used Joe up to his potential, why trade him for?

Er, wha...? We've seen Joe at his best which was his injury shortened season a few years ago where he was putting up 25.0 ppg on 47% from the field, .381 from three and almost four boards and assists a game. That was Joe's peak. After that he became a better distributor but he scored less. 20/5/5 is what his prime was which was All NBA level. There's no untapped potential left in Joe.

[Joker]

Er, wha...? We've seen Joe at his best which was his injury shortened season a few years ago where he was putting up 25.0 ppg on 47% from the field, .381 from three and almost four boards and assists a game. That was Joe's peak. After that he became a better distributor but he scored less. 20/5/5 is what his prime was which was All NBA level. There's no untapped potential left in Joe.

I hate using that season as an example. We stunk, no one respected us or took us seriously. The best Joe season to me was probably two years ago and this season. Joe can't get more talented but he can be more effective.

[Sothron]

I hate using that season as an example. We stunk, no one respected us or took us seriously. The best Joe season to me was probably two years ago and this season. Joe can't get more talented but he can be more effective.

That season was easily Joe's best in the league. Look at his numbers. 25 ppg on 47% from the field? I'd kill to see Joe put that up again.

[Joker]

That season was easily Joe's best in the league. Look at his numbers. 25 ppg on 47% from the field? I'd kill to see Joe put that up again.

No one double teamed him and we were ass.

[HawkItus]

Er, wha...? We've seen Joe at his best which was his injury shortened season a few years ago where he was putting up 25.0 ppg on 47% from the field, .381 from three and almost four boards and assists a game. That was Joe's peak. After that he became a better distributor but he scored less. 20/5/5 is what his prime was which was All NBA level. There's no untapped potential left in Joe.

I don't think this is correct. Joe, like Josh, like Al...........have not had the benefit of playing under a strong coach with a strong system. You telling me Pop or even Van Gundy couldn't coax a career year out of JJ now? I beg to differ. I think about the statement that was made about JJ the year he tried for the olympic team...Joe was payed extraordinary compliments by the coaching staff.

[Sothron]

I don't think this is correct. Joe, like Josh, like Al...........have not had the benefit of playing under a strong coach with a strong system. You telling me Pop or even Van Gundy couldn't coax a career year out of JJ now? I beg to differ. I think about the statement that was made about JJ the year he tried for the olympic team...Joe was payed extraordinary compliments by the coaching staff.

Joe's not 25 any more. Again let me repeat this: in the only year Joe missed significant time due to injury he was putting up 25 points a game on 47% shooting. That was his peak. No coach on Earth could get that out of him again at his age and all the wear and tear on his body.

No one double teamed him and we were ass.

So what? He still was a very efficient scorer and killed teams for not doubling him.

[Joker]

Joe's not 25 any more. Again let me repeat this: in the only year Joe missed significant time due to injury he was putting up 25 points a game on 47% shooting. That was his peak. No coach on Earth could get that out of him again at his age and all the wear and tear on his body.So what? He still was a very efficient scorer and killed teams for not doubling him.

Joe will never be that type of scorer again but that's not the mission, the mission is to get the best possible Joe. That means he needs to not be doubled as much or have a lot of spot up shots.

[Mutombolievable]

If you could, would you trade JJ for Rudy Gay?

[EazyRoc]

If you could, would you trade JJ for Rudy Gay?

Absolutely, but I doubt the Grizzlies would.

[Mutombolievable]

Absolutely, but I doubt the Grizzlies would.

I agree. The only reason I thought they MIGHT is because they struggled so much in the playoffs at SG. They were getting almost 0 offense from that position. The Grizz are supposedly shopping Gay yet again. I would love to get that guy. He's a stud.A core of Gasol, Randolph, JJ, Conley is pretty darn good and it's a great spot for Joe to really utilize his strengths.

[NekiEcko]

I agree. The only reason I thought they MIGHT is because they struggled so much in the playoffs at SG. They were getting almost 0 offense from that position. The Grizz are supposedly shopping Gay yet again. I would love to get that guy. He's a stud.A core of Gasol, Randolph, JJ, Conley is pretty darn good and it's a great spot for Joe to really utilize his strengths.

Now getting Gay would be a great idea but there is 2 questions about this1) Would be straight up deal or with other players, I know that Memphis might want a draft pick or Atlanta may want one.2) How that will translate with Josh and his upcoming F/A? That would make it easier to more Josh or have enough to keep himFor me, I think a straight deal would work here and I think that Gay and Teague would make a awesome backcourt with Horford and two wings (Williams, Smith or somebody else).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The Hawks left Steve Smith for dead, when they traded him to Portland. In his last year in ATL, he shot 40% FG . . 34% 3FG . . and averaged 18.7 points. He goes to the Blazers to play with a very good, but also very balanced Blazers team. While only scoring 15 ppg, he did it on just 11 shots, and shot 47% FG and 40% 3FG. He wasn't necessarily a "Robin" on that team, but more like one of the "Superfriends"Rasheed Wallace lead that team in scoring ( 16.7 ppg ). Smitty was 2nd. Scottie Pippen and Damon Stoudamire were tied for 3rd ( 12.5 ppg ). The big man was Arvydas Sabonis ( 11.8 ppg ). The bench consisted of aging veterans Detlef Schremph and Greg Anthony, a nice scoring swingman in Bonzi Wells, and a hard nosed player in Brian Grant. They also had "Plastic Man" Stacy Augmon deep on the bench, alongside a still young Jermaine O'Neal, who wasn't ready for primetime yet.This was the Portland team that choked in Los Angeles in the WC Finals, when the Lakers outscored then 31 - 13 in the final quarter. That Portland team, if they won that game, probably beats Indiana in the NBA Finals.To say that Joe Johnson's best days are behind him, are dependent on what team he goes to . . or if the Hawks can finally construct this team right. If you're looking for "Superstar Joe Johnson", that isn't going to happen. If you're looking for a Joe Johnson that is a major piece on a championship contender, that's still a strong possibility.The same thing that happened with Steve Smith, and then with Ray Allen, could also happen with Joe Johnson. In the case of Allen, he WAS "Batman", but had little to show for that, other than a run to the EC Finals when he played with Big Dog Robinson, and Sam Cassell ( one of the all time clutch shooting PGs ). But even on that squad, Ray wasn't the end all, be all with that squad. Cassell, in my opinion, was the leader of that crew.

[Nicholasp27]

Joe could definitely be more effective if we got scorers around him that meant he wouldn't be doubled as much

[benhillboy]

I've enjoyed debating Joe over the years. It seems like many people who swore by him at least have started to respect the idea that it's time to move on, while those that hated him find their dislike increasing. There will be a stark moment in these next two years when everyone on this board realizes that having him as a max player (200 million in all) was a franchise-crushing debacle. Seeing all these scenarios and lineups where he's still on the team just make me cringe. Does Joe do a lot of things well? Of course he does. Every NBA player has a scouting report with great things on it, as evidenced by the tidy stat combo classification North posted (let's see where Joe is in a matrix of players who play 30+ minutes at 6"4- 6"7 in rebounding rate, free throw attempts, dunks, blocks, or any stat that signifies physical toughness around the paint, and I'm sure he's not far from dead last in either). At some point in the evaluation, the poor things that a player does start to define him because they are such egregious errors or incapabilities. Film shows too many kicked dribbles, too many pathetic attempts at the rim, too many passed opportunities to drive, too many easily stolen dribbles, too many non-efforts on the glass, too many fadeaways when he'd been better served jumping straight up with balance, too few moments of him talking to his teammates, too few moments of him energizing his team, no explosive drives whatsoever, a finish in transition every 3 games. I'm just tired of seeing one of the best bodies in the NBA becoming increasingly passive in the area of the floor where championships are won.

Edited June 5, 2012 by benhillboy

[MaceCase]

Joe could definitely be more effective if we got scorers around him that meant he wouldn't be doubled as much

There is an inherent flaw with that...........How are you affording these guys? Sure Sund has done a masterful job of finding other teams' junk like Jamal and polishing them as best he could or finding limited older combos like Flip, Willie and Pargo to fill in those roles but in the end they show just why they were available for peanuts in the first place, because they just aren't reliable.This is the major issue that those who say "look at on court production instead of contract" always gloss over. The contract prevents the team from improving elsewhere so it becomes a matter of: if you have a player that will only perform better if surrounded by similar or better talent then why did you pay him so much as to prevent you from surrounding him with similar or better talent?

[Joker]

There is an inherent flaw with that...........How are you affording these guys? Sure Sund has done a masterful job of finding other teams' junk like Jamal and polishing them as best he could or finding limited older combos like Flip, Willie and Pargo to fill in those roles but in the end they show just why they were available for peanuts in the first place, because they just aren't reliable.This is the major issue that those who say "look at on court production instead of contract" always gloss over. The contract prevents the team from improving elsewhere so it becomes a matter of: if you have a player that will only perform better if surrounded by similar or better talent then why did you pay him so much as to prevent you from surrounding him with similar or better talent?

If Sund can get a PnR PG, a lot of the issues can be solved instantly.

[thecampster]

If Sund can get a PnR PG, a lot of the issues can be solved instantly.

+ a million on this. What people on this board aren't realizing is the defensive presence Marvin, Josh and Al bring on the floor. However, they are not shot creators. They can score and well but they are not going to manufacture offense for themselves. Joe however is not a facilitator. He is quite the opposite. The ball dies in his possession. There are teams where Joe would be a godsend. 5 years ago, he was that for us. But he is not that now. A facilitator and a knock down shooter would greatly help the offensive games of Pachulia, Horford, Smith and Williams.This is why I wish Teague were a few inches taller. He could work on his shot and be a great 2 guard and we could bring in a Kendall Marshall type. But you can't teach height.

[MaceCase]

So the question will be asked again......what PnR PG is available to the team without trading any of these players that are awaiting this player's presence and will be affordable given cap restraints? Camp, you're not on the same page as Superstar, you are talking about moving Joe and getting this guard while he's discussing keeping the whole team intact and magically acquiring this mythical guard.I already presented Andre Miller but apparently that's not a sexy choice for these fantasies.

[Diesel]

This was the Portland team that choked was cheated horribly by the refs in that Los Angeles WC Finals, when the Lakers outscored then 31 - 13 in the final quarter. That Portland team, if they won that game, probably beats Indiana in the NBA Finals.

It's all in Personal Foul written by Tim Donaghy

[Joker]

MarshallMachadoNashDeronS. CurryRondo even though he is not a PnR PGI would ecstatic with one of them.