If you could, would trade JJ for a lottery pick?

[Sothron]

Whoa, this is a historic moment for this board. Glad to see you coming around. Now if we could get Diesel to admit this, we'd be getting somewhere.

I've never liked that contract to be fair. What I object to is the excessive amount of criticism for the player. It isn't Joe's fault the A$G were completely insane to give him that kind of a contract. He would have been a fool to not sign it.

[Diesel]

IF... It marks the start of the rebuilding process, I say yes. If not, I say it depends on the pick. You guys jump on this lottery pick bandwagon like every lottery pick is a difference maker. Acie Law, DeMarr, Shelden, and Chillz were all Lottery picks. Since the draft of 2005, there haven't been many multistar drafts... Not too many loaded lotteries and probably won't be. They will probably be like this one with one pearl and a whole lot of projects.Moreover, I rate our window by Horf's contract not Joe's. What I tend to look at is how strong is our ability to draw free agents?With our ownership, if we were to send a star like Joe to a team not of his choosing, we can basically forget ever getting a real good free agent again.For Instance, Dawayne Casey will give us #8 and Calderon for Joe and our late pick. Casey has cried out that it's cruel punishment to play in a land where you can't draw FAs and you live by the draft. He'd happily take a 6 time allstar.But we get Calderon and somebody at 8... Let's say a good C prospect. That team better be able to win it all because what FA is coming to Atlanta after we shipped our top guy to Toronto for a pick?So, trading Joe for a pick will have to be a move that definitely marks the beginning of free agency.

[EazyRoc]

IF... It marks the start of the rebuilding process, I say yes. If not, I say it depends on the pick. You guys jump on this lottery pick bandwagon like every lottery pick is a difference maker. Acie Law, DeMarr, Shelden, and Chillz were all Lottery picks. Since the draft of 2005, there haven't been many multistar drafts... Not too many loaded lotteries and probably won't be. They will probably be like this one with one pearl and a whole lot of projects.Moreover, I rate our window by Horf's contract not Joe's. What I tend to look at is how strong is our ability to draw free agents?With our ownership, if we were to send a star like Joe to a team not of his choosing, we can basically forget ever getting a real good free agent again.For Instance, Dawayne Casey will give us #8 and Calderon for Joe and our late pick. Casey has cried out that it's cruel punishment to play in a land where you can't draw FAs and you live by the draft. He'd happily take a 6 time allstar.But we get Calderon and somebody at 8... Let's say a good C prospect. That team better be able to win it all because what FA is coming to Atlanta after we shipped our top guy to Toronto for a pick?So, trading Joe for a pick will have to be a move that definitely marks the beginning of free agency.

I'm pretty sure Calderon and a lottery pick would make us more attractive than having a declining star locked in to a huge contract.

[coachx]

Our best chance at getting a legit star if through a lottery pick guaranteeing us 9 years of keeping them (4 year rookie contract plus RFA 5 year contract).........not a free agent.At least those bad lottery picks at #2 (Marvin) / #5 (Sheldon) / #6 (Chillz) were not on our current GM's head.

Edited June 1, 2012 by coachx

[NineOhTheRino]

too bad the only GM dumb enough to do it is unemployed.and...Trading Joe should have little to do with the skill level you're getting in return. Hawks should take any expiring contract or draft pick available. The #1 goal should be getting rid of that hideous contract.

Edited June 1, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[HawkItus]

too bad the only GM dumb enough to do it is unemployed.and...Trading Joe should have little to do with the skill level you're getting in return. Hawks should take any expiring contract or draft pick available. The #1 goal should be getting rid of that hideous contract.

This works both ways......John Wall/D Rose.........Lebron/Andrew Bogut.........there are no promises. With Joe and our current roster we can pretty much know the playoffs are certainty. The right PG or C....heck maybe coach gets us to the conference finals. I would rather keep our talent and move it for different talent or better talent than just cap room. If we get rid of Joe and still resign Josh where does that leave us?

[ryandauwalker]

The fact that everybody is on board wants it means that we're reaching... I'd change the question to non-lottery first rounder and see the response. For the record, I absolutely would do it, but I can't imagine a scenario which is realistic and advantageous for the Hawks happening outside of the amnesty in terms of JJ. I'd love to be wrong though!

[Nicholasp27]

Trading joe doesn't get us much cap space to do more than replace him with a lesser player and then sign vet minsI'm not sure why people want to get rid of a top sg just to replace him with a mid-tier sg and have no space to sign much more than vet mins anyway

[Buzzard]

Trading joe doesn't get us much cap space to do more than replace him with a lesser player and then sign vet minsI'm not sure why people want to get rid of a top sg just to replace him with a mid-tier sg and have no space to sign much more than vet mins anyway

I am thinking if we moved JJ, we would then move Smoove and start rebuilding with Teague, Marvin, and Horford. That should be big time cap space in one to two seasons provided the contracts we take back are not longer than two seasons and we would have to get some picks as well.Here is the dream scenario to clear cap:JJ for picks and expirings no one signed longer than two seasonsSmoove for Gasol and a pick.Gasol and Marvin come off the books together in two seasons. Meanwhile we are competitive with Gasol, Horford, Teague, and Marvin plus the picks we end up with. This is a total rebuild and one I am not counting on or am sure we need. But if you want to tear us down this will do it.Marvins deal comes off the books then, so only Horford and Teague plus our draft picks would still be under contract.

[Nicholasp27]

Why not trade smoove for gasol and keep joe and then trade or amnesty him in 2 years for cap space??

[AHF]

Why not trade smoove for gasol and keep joe and then trade or amnesty him in 2 years for cap space??

Presumably the advantages are that JJ is more marketable today and more likely to draw assets (rather than costing us assets to get someone to take on his deal) than he will be in two years and this saves ownership a ton of money. In two years JJ will have years on his deal at $23M and $25M. If you try to deal him for cap relief, you will likely need to add assets to the deal to get someone to take him. If you amnesty him, it is likely you end up covering $25 - 40M of that contract out of your pocket. If a team under the cap bid $10M for him (which is overly generous), the owners of the Hawks would have to pay him $28M over two years to play somewhere else.

[Buzzard]

Why not trade smoove for gasol and keep joe and then trade or amnesty him in 2 years for cap space??

I was just answering the question but think yours is the way to go for this season vs trading JJ and Smoove.

[Nicholasp27]

Yeah but the other way you have Jeff jj horf gasol zaza and can try to make ECF next year with older Boston and rose injured...we have a window...trade smoove for gasol or Noah and get to the promised landIf it doesn't work then you get rid of jj/gasol and reload or rebuild but right now is prime time

[Diesel]

I'm pretty sure Calderon and a lottery pick would make us more attractive than having a declining star locked in to a huge contract.

No. Calderon is an ending contract..but even with that. What GOOD FA will want the Joe Johnson treatment.What makes a team attractive is how they treat their stars. Ever wonder why people want to go to Dallas? Cuban treat the stars well out there. Ever wonder why nobody wants to go to Toronto? Aside from the taxes look at how they have treated the stars. We are one of the worse. Look what we did to Nique. That's why nobody is quick to say... I'm going to Atlanta. Joe was the only star who ever wanted to be here. Many guys used us to get better contracts with who they wanted to be with but nobody wanted to be with us. Whatever we get has to be either the start of a long draft made reconstruction or a championship team.

[Diesel]

too bad the only GM dumb enough to do it is unemployed.and...Trading Joe should have little to do with the skill level you're getting in return. Hawks should take any expiring contract or draft pick available. The #1 goal should be getting rid of that hideous contract.

That's the problem nineoh.you're too busy playing SIMS Basketball GM that you don't know what the #1 goal is. The #1 Goal is to win a championship. The Amnesty has a purpose. However, while Joe is still producing on an allstar level, we need to try to field a team that can win a championship. You're like the Nets trading Kidd for Harris because they wanted to be younger and free of Kidds contract. Well, Kidd got a ring. NJ got crap.

[Diesel]

Presumably the advantages are that JJ is more marketable today and more likely to draw assets (rather than costing us assets to get someone to take on his deal) than he will be in two years and this saves ownership a ton of money. In two years JJ will have years on his deal at $23M and $25M. If you try to deal him for cap relief, you will likely need to add assets to the deal to get someone to take him. If you amnesty him, it is likely you end up covering $25 - 40M of that contract out of your pocket. If a team under the cap bid $10M for him (which is overly generous), the owners of the Hawks would have to pay him $28M over two years to play somewhere else.

That's also the way that leads to nowhere. A Joe, Teague, Gasol, Horf could get to the ECF and possibly the NBA Finals.Take Joe out and we're just spitting in the wind again.Moreover, in 2 yrs after another strong playoff, Joe will be sought after.

[thecampster]

No. Calderon is an ending contract..but even with that. What GOOD FA will want the Joe Johnson treatment.What makes a team attractive is how they treat their stars. Ever wonder why people want to go to Dallas? Cuban treat the stars well out there. Ever wonder why nobody wants to go to Toronto? Aside from the taxes look at how they have treated the stars. We are one of the worse. Look what we did to Nique. That's why nobody is quick to say... I'm going to Atlanta. Joe was the only star who ever wanted to be here. Many guys used us to get better contracts with who they wanted to be with but nobody wanted to be with us. Whatever we get has to be either the start of a long draft made reconstruction or a championship team.

What makes a team attractive is personal marketability....very little else. New York, Chicago, LA are major markets for self marketing. Don't be naive. Personal salary is less than what a player can make from endorsements, name recognition. This is what was so savvy about what the big 3 did in Miami. 20 million person state. Huge media blitz to cover it. Always the villain wherever they go. Huge endorsements. This is why they took just a bit less to sign there. This is also why Joe left Phoenix to come to Atlanta. The "star" gets more attention than the role player. This is also why Al wants a true center and a point guard to build around himself and why Josh keeps shooting. Be the star, build a personal brand. These guys have a very short window to accomplish that. The only reason it's about winning championships is because winning builds a brand.http://branddunk.com/2008/10/27/endorsement-profile-lebron-james/This was his endorsements vale at 23 -- $28 million.

[Antmillennium]

Great SGs are harder to find that PFs...I won't do it

Well, Joe isn't a great SG, so we don't have to worry about that. I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. Joe is probably the least athletic, least explosive SG in league. Not only that, but he's also a ball stopper and takes about 20 seconds to make a decision, which usually leads to a Josh Smith jumpshot. No, we can find better than Joe Johnson.

[Nicholasp27]

Joe is a top 5 sg in the NBA and a true 2-way playerHe will be even better when teams can't double him anymore once we get more efficient scoters (read: not smoove) around him and a post presence and run more pnrs with horford

[Nicholasp27]

And you guys live in a fantasy world where there are magically tons of players to replace joe that will also sign with us and that we will somehow sign them for cheap so we can get more than the first one, who will just be replacing Joe's role and production