Okc vs. Atl

[macdaddy]

Not that you have to be an rocket surgeon to figure this out but this sums it up nicely.

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2012/06/07/the-hawks-were-there-first-the-thunder-have-done-it-better/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog

1. The Thunder drafted a superstar. The aforementioned Durant became OKC’s cornerstone. (Though technically he spent his first NBA season as a SuperSonic; the franchise moved from Seattle to Oklahoma City in 2008.) Durant was the second player drafted in 2007. The Hawks held the No. 2 pick in the 2005 draft. They could have had a superstar, but they drafted Marvin Williams — as opposed to Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Seven years later, the folly of that pick cannot be overstated.

2. The Thunder drafted a point guard. They took Russell Westbrook, who hadn’t been a point guard at UCLA, with the fourth pick of the 2008 draft. Some insist he’s still not a point guard — he finished 18th this season in assists and he shoots an awful lot — but he does man the position and is demonstrably one of the NBA’s 10 best players. The Hawks had to wait until February 2008 to find a point guard to round out their Core Four, and Mike Bibby was already in decline when he arrived via trade from Sacramento.

3. The Thunder did not whiff. Over a three-year span, Oklahoma City made these first-round picks: Durant, Westbrook, Serge Ibaka (24th overall in 2008) and James Harden (third overall in 2009). Harden was just named the NBA’s top sixth man; Ibaka has become the Thunder’s defensive stopper. This list should also include Jeff Green, taken by Boston with the fifth overall pick in 2007 and traded to Seattle that night. Those peak drafting years yielded peak results. Meaning: No Marvin Williams and no Shelden Williams (taken by the Hawks with the No. 5 pick in 2006).

4. The Thunder weren’t afraid to tamper with the core. In February 2011, OKC traded Green to Boston for center Kendrick Perkins. Green had become such an integral part of the Thunder that general manager Sam Presti wept when announcing the deal, but Presti also knew he needed interior defense above a wing — even if that wing was averaging 15 points a game. Contrast this with the Hawks, whose Game 6 starting lineup in Boston’s TD Garden this spring included four players who started Game 7 in the same building in 2008. (The only change: The 32-year-old Bibby was shipped out in February 2011 for, er, Kirk Hinrich.)

5. The Thunder made inspired managerial hires. Presti was 30 when tapped by Seattle as GM in June 2008. Presti replaced Rick Sund, who presided over two winning seasons in six years with the SuperSonics and whose final three Round 1 picks were centers Mouhamed Sene, Johan Petro and Robert Swift. Presti had apprenticed with San Antonio, which is the gold standard for NBA organizations, and was clever enough to hire Troy Weaver from Utah to help run the draft. (Weaver is credited with lobbying hard for Westbrook and Harden.) As for Sund: He has been the Hawks’ GM since 2008 and has been an creditable caretaker.

To me by far the most important part is they drafted Durant. Take that away and the rest of the moves still don't get you to a championship. As far as what the Hawks can take away i think the point that okc traded green to get better is a good point.

[bird_dirt]

i like okc a lot. it's obvious how they have done the right things, and i have always preferred watching young, talented upcoming teams vs. slow, older, methodical (boring) teams. sometimes i wonder why i feel i have to hold onto geological biases when it comes to supporting teams. cincinnati/kentucky/atlanta can lead to some serious heartburn for extended periods of time. at least uk just won big.

[Joker]

1. Atlanta did draft a superstar. They just have to get him the PG who can create for him and others.2. They still haven't gotten a PG. It is great that we have Bobby Jackson like player on the team, that's excellent for our bench but we still need a PG, mainly a PnR one for Horford.3. OKC really didn't whiff but they had better draft classes to choose from. They sucked at the right time.4. That's true. Atlanta loves redundancy and overpaying players. This team without Josh or without Al is just as good with both of them. Joe is a Robin and was overpaid.5. I am not sure. Sund drafted Jordan to replace Jamal but in reality Teague was Jamal true legit replacement. We still never got a real PG. We still don't have a center with size even though Zaza has improved but we were never in position to get one that's good. We have been poor in terms of 2nd round drafting. We still don't have an identity and now we don't have an offense.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Joker

[Admin]

I really like the Thunder and they've drafted well and made excellent moves, but by far the biggest was getting lucky and getting Durant instead of Oden. Swap those 2 players and you're talking about a team that's probably not in the playoffs, let alone the finals.

[Joker]

They struck gold getting Westbrook. He was the only pick that wasn't the easy selection. ASG thought they made the easy selection in Marvin and failed.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Joker

[benhillboy]

It's safe to sy Sam Presti is considerably smarter than most GMs. I don't know anyone who would use their #3 overall pick on a 2 designated to be a sixth man, yet who is better than our starting 2 guard.

[HawkItus]

this is bullcrap.....if you trade any of our top 3 for KD and we would be in the finals. We missed him by 1 spot.

[AHF]

It isn't bullcrap. There is a valid point about the huge impact of getting lucky and landing that superstar but look at their key moves versus ours:Lottery Rebuild:Atlanta #6 - Josh Childress - BustOKC #2 - Kevin Durant - Superstar Atlanta #2 - Marvin Williams - BustOKC #4 - Russell Westbrook - StudAtlanta #5 - Shelden Williams - BustOKC #5 - Jeff Green - Solid (Flipped for key interior player)Atlanta #3 - Al Horford - StudOKC #3 - James Harden - StudAtlanta #11 - Acie Law - BustObviously, some drafts are stronger than others and the way the balls bounce is all about luck but it is a pretty basic general rule that if you strike out on 80% of your top picks you will be worse than a team that gets hits (single, home run, home run, triple) on every one.

[HawkItus]

It is bull crap because the only names in their that really matter are the Durant's Westbrook's and Horford's. It really balances out on this missed picks. If Marvin was Josh we wouldn't get the heat we do about Paul. But, if you think about it Josh was a gamble. Joe cost us to picks, we did this to make up for the misses we had with Childress. It's a wash. OKC if they had Marvin instead of Harden would still likely be in the finals. All the side characters are interchangeable. If we had Durant or better Durant and Westbrook instead of two of our 3 best we would be in the finals.

[Diesel]

I think you have to go from the beginning draft by draft...

2004

Atlanta - Josh Childress and Josh Smith (BK)

OKC - Robert Swift. (Sund)

2005

Atlanta - Marvin Williams (BK)

OKC - Johan Petro (Sund)

2006

Atlanta - Shelden Williams (BK)

OKC - Saer Sene (Sund)

2007

Atlanta - Horford and Law (BK)

OKC - Durant and Jeff Green (Presti)

2008

Atlanta - No Pick (BK) - Would have been #15

OKC - Westbrook and Ibaka

2009

Atlanta - Jeff Teague (Sund)

OKC - roddy Beaubois

2010

Atlanta - J. Crawford

OKC - Craig Brackens and Quincey Poindexter

Makes you say... WTH....

In better drafts, Sund might be better than Presti. 2009 and 2010 so far are very telling.

However, OKC knows what to do in a strong draft with a good pick. BK didn't.

[WakaFlocka]

It is bull crap because the only names in their that really matter are the Durant's Westbrook's and Horford's. It really balances out on this missed picks. If Marvin was Josh we wouldn't get the heat we do about Paul. But, if you think about it Josh was a gamble. Joe cost us to picks, we did this to make up for the misses we had with Childress. It's a wash. OKC if they had Marvin instead of Harden would still likely be in the finals. All the side characters are interchangeable. If we had Durant or better Durant and Westbrook instead of two of our 3 best we would be in the finals.

OKC would absolutely not be in the Finals if you swapped Marvin Williams for James Harden. Harden is arguably the best scorer/creator off the dribble on that team and the times that Westbrook goes cold and no one feeds KD the ball, Harden is right there to carry the load.

[Buzzard]

It is bull crap because the only names in their that really matter are the Durant's Westbrook's and Horford's. It really balances out on this missed picks. If Marvin was Josh we wouldn't get the heat we do about Paul. But, if you think about it Josh was a gamble. Joe cost us to picks, we did this to make up for the misses we had with Childress. It's a wash. OKC if they had Marvin instead of Harden would still likely be in the finals. All the side characters are interchangeable. If we had Durant or better Durant and Westbrook instead of two of our 3 best we would be in the finals.

Well of course we would but you are saying we would have drafted Durant and Westbrook. And given our draft record its safe to say we would have at least passed on Westbrook at 4...Now our core team could easily be CP3, Deng or Iggy, Josh, to go along with JJ in his prime, if we would not have reached for Childress and Marvin.

[HawkItus]

OKC would absolutely not be in the Finals if you swapped Marvin Williams for James Harden. Harden is arguably the best scorer/creator off the dribble on that team and the times that Westbrook goes cold and no one feeds KD the ball, Harden is right there to carry the load.

I disagree, but that is fine. Marvin though different could be just as effective in other ways for that team.

[Buzzard]

OKC would absolutely not be in the Finals if you swapped Marvin Williams for James Harden. Harden is arguably the best scorer/creator off the dribble on that team and the times that Westbrook goes cold and no one feeds KD the ball, Harden is right there to carry the load.

Yes its all 16 ppg James Harden who is leading OKC; just like here its the 18 ppg Smoove who will eventually lead us to the promised land lmao Edited June 8, 2012 by Buzzard

[HawkItus]

Well of course we would but you are saying we would have drafted Durant and Westbrook. And given our draft record its safe to say we would have at least passed on Westbrook at 4...Now our core team could easily be CP3, Deng or Iggy, Josh, to go along with JJ in his prime, if we would not have reached for Childress and Marvin.

I can't argue with you. But, that is not my point. My point is it really comes down to the right piece. Kevin Durant would have altered the finals trajectory of almost every team in the league. Portland, Toronto, NJ, etc........any of them. But, for it all to come together you had to get KD. We didn't they did. Game over.

[AHF]

Let's use our "luck-o-meter" and switch Seattle and Atlanta's picks from 2 & 3 to 3 & 2. Which set of lottery picks would you prefer?Kevin DurantMarvin WilliamsShelden WilliamsAcie LawJosh ChildressAl HorfordRussell WestbrookJames HardenKendrick Perkins (Jeff Green)The first set translates into a lottery roster (first round exit is top possible) that Durant would have run away from rather than resigned for the long-term. The second set translates into a strong playoff roster.

[HawkItus]

Let's use our "luck-o-meter" and switch Seattle and Atlanta's picks from 2 & 3 to 3 & 2. Which set of lottery picks would you prefer?Kevin DurantMarvin WilliamsShelden WilliamsAcie LawJosh ChildressAl HorfordRussell WestbrookJames HardenKendrick Perkins (Jeff Green)The first set translates into a lottery roster (first round exit is top possible) that Durant would have run away from rather than resigned for the long-term. The second set translates into a strong playoff roster.

Come on AHF be fair......put the player we traded Acie and Shelden for. Can we do that and play fair?

[AHF]

Come on AHF be fair......put the player we traded Acie and Shelden for. Can we do that and play fair?

Kevin Durant

Marvin Williams

Shelden Williams => Mike Bibby => UFA Kirk Hinrich (minus first round pick)

Acie Law => Mike Bibby => UFA Kirk Hinrich (minus first round pick)

Josh Childress

Al Horford

Russell Westbrook

James Harden

Kendrick Perkins (Jeff Green)

****************

I don't think that helps the situation, but there it is.

Team 1 - 2012-13 - 5 picks - 1 long-term asset (Durant), one negative contract we would drop if we could (MW), 3 picks that translate into nothing for next season, 1 lost post-lottery pick

Team 2 - 2012-13 - 4 picks - 4 long-term assets (Horford, Westbrook, Harden, Perkins)

Edited June 8, 2012 by AHF

[Wretch]

We can sit here and talk about luck all day long. The only people that care are the ones like us. There isn't a person in the OKC organization that gives a damn. They're on basketball's biggest stage right now.

But I also have to add here...

This is like looking at a guy who made a lot of money, who drives a Aston Martin through a middle class neighborhood. People will say, "Oh, he got lucky in the stock market." "Oh, anybody can be successful if they had money to buy themselves a business." Etc...........

But that's really dumbing the whole thing down. You need scouts to find the talent, you need to make the right trades, find the right coaches, role players...you have to put players in a position to succeed. You have to negotiate the right deals. It is not all luck. REGARDLESS...

If you don't play the game, you can't win.

[WakaFlocka]

I disagree, but that is fine. Marvin though different could be just as effective in other ways for that team.

Without Harden, OKC would have a big scoring gap to fill, Marvin wouldn't fill it and I don't know who else on that roster would either. While Marvin is a good perimeter defender, so is Harden; and the only way Marvin really scores is through the occasional cut and the spot of jumper/3.

I really don't see how adding Marvin and removing Harden from that roster keeps OKC on the same level.

Yes its all 16 ppg James Harden who is leading OKC; just like here its the 18 ppg Smoove who will eventually lead us to the promised land lmao

What does Josh Smith have to do with this...? Josh and Harden are completely different players who do very different things for their respective teams. If you think I'm overstating Harden's value to the Thunder, you clearly don't watch their games.