Lou Williams (Audio)

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

You would think that any one who even has a casual interest in the NBA would know this already!

IKR... OKC got close with their drafted team (Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka), but really teams being built that way are not that popular anymore. Kings, Bucks, Rockets, and Raptors are perennial lottery teams... What have they done recently?

[EazyRoc]

OKC is an anomaly because other than maybe the Spurs no team has been as successful in the draft like they have. Sure, KD was a no-brainer. Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka weren't. The whole build through the draft approach is way overblown and its exactly why tanking makes no sense. If you're bad enough to tank, one draft is not going to be the difference maker. You tank consecutively and you get the losing franchise stigma and can't get free agents.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

OKC is an anomaly because other than maybe the Spurs no team has been as successful in the draft like they have. Sure, KD was a no-brainer. Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka weren't. The whole build through the draft approach is way overblown and its exactly why tanking makes no sense. If you're bad enough to tank, one draft is not going to be the difference maker. You tank consecutively and you get the losing franchise stigma and can't get free agents.

Plus, if you are a successful franchise such as the Lakers, Mavs, or Heat, with the slim amount of talent in the draft these days, the draft is almost an afterthought. Hell, BRK was willing to trade away their drafts for years to come in order to get Dwight. Building through the draft isn't that successful anymore... Trades and FAncy is how to do it.

[Sothron]

The last team to draft a player in the lottery and win a title was the Heat in 2006 with Wade and they wouldn't won that championship w/o trading for Shaq. The 2003 Draft gave us LBJ, Bosh, Wade, Carmelo, Kaman, and David West and Wade is the only player that is still on the team that drafted him... Dwight came out in 2004, he wants out in Orlando. Paul and Deron came out in 2005, they have both moved on. If this was the 80's or 90's when players were actually "loyal" to the team that drafted them, then yeah, tanking and going for a top five would work, but in today's game, players don't stick around long enough to build a championship teams that way. Sure, LBJ took the Cavs and Dwight took the Magic to the finals, but once there, they got beat by better, older teams... Teams are built through FAncy and trades nowadays. Also, drafts have not been that strong in the past few years... Spurs are really the only team that has built a team through the draft and that fanbase is blessed with the best coach in the game.

Are you being serious? Seriously? Teams that drafted the superstar that won them a title: Boston multiple times Lakers multiple times Spurs Heat Dallas Chicago Houston I can keep going. You have to stretch hard to find teams that had to trade for superstars but they STILL won titles because OF the superstars. You know what you have to find really, really hard? The two teams in NBA history the entire HISTORY of the LEAGUE that won a title without a single superstar. The late 70's Sonics and the early 2000's Pistons. That's it. So you'll forgive me if I find your post not only laughable but I don't think you were even serious writing it. You don't titles unless you have superstars and the only way you get them are through the draft, free agency or through a trade.

You would think that any one who even has a casual interest in the NBA would know this already!

Yes, you'd think anyone with even a casual interest in the NBA would know that many, many, many, many, many teams won titles with superstars they drafted. Thanks for being Captain Obvious for us hero.

[Peoriabird]

The last 13 teams to win a title won with mostly free agent signings and trades1) Heat- Superstar Lebron James Drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers and signed by Miami as a free agent2) Dallas- Superstar- Dirk Nowitski Drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks and traded his rights to the Dallas Mavericks For Tractor Traylor3) LA Lakers- Super star Kobe Bryant Drafted by The Charlotte Hornets and traded for Vlade Divac4) LA Lakers- Superstar support- Paul Gasol drafted by Memphis and traded to LA for draft picks?5) Boston Celtics- Super Star Kevin Garnett.. Drafted by Minnesota and traded to Boston for Al Jefferson Telfair and Green6) San Antonio Spurs- superstar Tim Duncan drafted by the Spurs7) Miami Heat- Super star Shaq- Drafted by Orlando..signed as a free agent by Miami8) San Antonio Spurs- see #69) Detroit Pistons- Superstar Chancey Billups? Drafted by the Boston Celtics and played for several teams before signing with the Pistons as a free agent10) San Antonio Spurs see #611) LA Lakers- Superstar Shaq- Drafted by the Orlando Magic and signed with the Lakers as a free agent12) La Lakers- See #1113) La Lakers- see # 11So out of the last 13 championships, only 1 super star was drafted by its original team! Hopefully this clarifies things for you Sothron

Edited July 22, 2012 by Peoriabird

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Are you being serious? Seriously? Teams that drafted the superstar that won them a title: Boston multiple times Lakers multiple times Spurs Heat Dallas Chicago Houston I can keep going. You have to stretch hard to find teams that had to trade for superstars but they STILL won titles because OF the superstars. You know what you have to find really, really hard? The two teams in NBA history the entire HISTORY of the LEAGUE that won a title without a single superstar. The late 70's Sonics and the early 2000's Pistons. That's it. So you'll forgive me if I find your post not only laughable but I don't think you were even serious writing it. You don't titles unless you have superstars and the only way you get them are through the draft, free agency or through a trade. Yes, you'd think anyone with even a casual interest in the NBA would know that many, many, many, many, many teams won titles with superstars they drafted. Thanks for being Captain Obvious for us hero.

I find YOU borderline laughable because it's obvious you didn't read all of posts... Back in the 70's, 80's, & 90's, yeah, a team could draft a superstar and go on to win championships. MJ, Magic, and Bird all did it, but that was YESTERDAYS game. No one is loyal to there teams anymore. Superstars are traded for scraps and stars are more about themselves than they are about a TEAM concept. They don't stick around like Malone, Barkley, and others did. If you have even been remotely paying attention to the NBA the past 15 years, you don't draft superstars to win championships. Tim Duncan, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade are the only ones to do it, and two of them were drafted during the loyal-years of basketball (80's & 90's). James, Deron, Paul, Dwight, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh, Durant, Rose, and Kobe are considered the superstars of today's game, and only 3 out of the 8 are still on the team that drafted them. Players will play where - A. The money is, B. Winning is a tradition, and C. Rings are a strong possibility. No one is going to stick around long enough in Utah or Toronto or Sacramento to see if the organization can put together a championship contender. No one is taking the Karl Malone, Clyde Drexler, or Gary Payton route where you play for one team for 15 years and then bolt at the last possible second to try and steal a title on the way out. The precedents that Carmelo, LeBron, Bosh, and Dwight have set is that superstars don't wait for a championship teams to form around them, they go out and make one. History has NO precedents in today's game because there is no loyalty today. Also, the way drafts have been lately, even number one picks have questions. There are not any "sure things" in NBA drafts anymore. The last sure thing was LeBron in 2003. Even Durant had major questions in the 2007 draft. ...and I never stated that you don't need a superstar to win a title. I simply stated that expecting to build a team through the draft and putting it all on the line that you will draft your superstar is not logical. That's not the way it is done anymore... Look at teams like the Lakers, Boston, Miami, and Brooklyn. Those teams were built through FAncy and trades. That is how teams are made in today's game, not through the draft.

[Final_quest]

To Sothron's point, every team to win a title seems to have a player they drafted as one of the superstars on the team. Celtics-Pierce, Heat-Wade, Lakers-Kobe, Mavs-Dirk. However trades and free agency seem to make up a significant portion as well. See LBJ, Gasol, Garnett, Shaq. The Spurs are about the only pure draft team to win a title recently, but the THunder could be the next. My opinion is that you need all options available.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

To Sothron's point, every team to win a title seems to have a player they drafted as one of the superstars on the team. Celtics-Pierce, Heat-Wade, Lakers-Kobe, Mavs-Dirk. However trades and free agency seem to make up a significant portion as well. See LBJ, Gasol, Garnett, Shaq. The Spurs are about the only pure draft team to win a title recently, but the THunder could be the next. My opinion is that you need all options available.

I understand where he is coming from, but to have the mindset to just tank and draft a superstar is just not logical. Drafts are just way too weak nowadays and high valued players don't stick around. The Hawks have three players in our starting lineup currently that we drafted and Jenkins looked good during SL. Why tank and put the bank on drafting the superstar we need? I am more in favor of the Dallas mindset in that you never rebuild, just reload.

[Peoriabird]

Tim Duncan, Kobe, and Dwayne Wade are the only ones to do it, and two of them were drafted during the loyal-years of basketball (80's & 90's). .

Kobe wasn't drafted by the Laker because the Lakers weren't in the lottery that year. He was a draft day trade. And Shaq was still the star when Wade won in Miami Sorry. Once Shaq wasn't a star anymore and Wade was forced to carry the team, they could get passed the 1st round. You are correct about Duncan but even he got a lot of help from Parker and Genobili in his latter years who were non lottery picks.

[High5]

The last team to draft a player in the lottery and win a title was the Heat in 2006 with Wade and they wouldn't won that championship w/o trading for Shaq. The 2003 Draft gave us LBJ, Bosh, Wade, Carmelo, Kaman, and David West and Wade is the only player that is still on the team that drafted him... Dwight came out in 2004, he wants out in Orlando. Paul and Deron came out in 2005, they have both moved on. If this was the 80's or 90's when players were actually "loyal" to the team that drafted them, then yeah, tanking and going for a top five would work, but in today's game, players don't stick around long enough to build a championship teams that way. Sure, LBJ took the Cavs and Dwight took the Magic to the finals, but once there, they got beat by better, older teams... Teams are built through FAncy and trades nowadays. Also, drafts have not been that strong in the past few years... Spurs are really the only team that has built a team through the draft and that fanbase is blessed with the best coach in the game.

Take 'em to school!

[Sothron]

I understand where he is coming from, but to have the mindset to just tank and draft a superstar is just not logical. Drafts are just way too weak nowadays and high valued players don't stick around. The Hawks have three players in our starting lineup currently that we drafted and Jenkins looked good during SL. Why tank and put the bank on drafting the superstar we need? I am more in favor of the Dallas mindset in that you never rebuild, just reload.

I never said we only tank to get a superstar. I swear to God some of you people seriously need to go back to high school (or finish it) and learn reading comprehension. Find one post from me that said the ONLY WAY we can get a superstar is from tanking. I have said we need to get a superstar at any cost and THAT is true.

[Sothron]

The last 13 teams to win a title won with mostly free agent signings and trades 1) Heat- Superstar Lebron James Drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers and signed by Miami as a free agent 2) Dallas- Superstar- Dirk Nowitski Drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks and traded his rights to the Dallas Mavericks For Tractor Traylor 3) LA Lakers- Super star Kobe Bryant Drafted by The Charlotte Hornets and traded for Vlade Divac 4) LA Lakers- Superstar support- Paul Gasol drafted by Memphis and traded to LA for draft picks? 5) Boston Celtics- Super Star Kevin Garnett.. Drafted by Minnesota and traded to Boston for Al Jefferson Telfair and Green 6) San Antonio Spurs- superstar Tim Duncan drafted by the Spurs 7) Miami Heat- Super star Shaq- Drafted by Orlando..signed as a free agent by Miami 8) San Antonio Spurs- see #6 9) Detroit Pistons- Superstar Chancey Billups? Drafted by the Boston Celtics and played for several teams before signing with the Pistons as a free agent 10) San Antonio Spurs see #6 11) LA Lakers- Superstar Shaq- Drafted by the Orlando Magic and signed with the Lakers as a free agent 12) La Lakers- See #11 13) La Lakers- see # 11 So out of the last 13 championships, only 1 super star was drafted by its original team! Hopefully this clarifies things for you Sothron

Laughable. 1 Heat; Superstar Wade drafted by team, signed Lebron as a free agent 2. Dallas superstar Dirk essentially drafted by Dallas due to draft day trade, they had him from day one of his NBA career 3. Laker superstar Kobe already told the entire league he would only play for the Lakers and was traded by the Hornets on draft day, played his entire career with the Lakers 4. Laker ditto with Kobe, Pau Gasol not a superstar but was traded there 5. Boston all former superstar. Pierce drafted by Boston. KG and Allen all former superstar level. Traded there. Again proving you can trade for a superstar 6 Spurs superstar Duncan drafted by team 7 Heat superstar Wade (where are you getting Shaq as the best player from) drafted by team, traded for fading superstar Shaq 8 Spurs see above 9 Pistons not one superstar as I said before being only one of two teams to EVER win a title w/o a superstar 10 Spurs see above 11 Lakers superstar Kobe also signed Shaq as a free agent from Orlando proving you can sign a superstar 12 Lakers see above 13 Lakers see above Yep, thanks for proving me correct once again. Everything I said in previous posts are true: teams that drafted a superstar won a title, teams that signed a superstar free agent won a title, teams that traded for a superstar free agent won a title. Only one team in this list didn't have a superstar when they won a title.

[Peoriabird]

Yes, you'd think anyone with even a casual interest in the NBA would know that many, many, many, many, many teams won titles with superstars they drafted. Thanks for being Captain Obvious for us hero.

Just responding to this post

[Peoriabird]

Yes, if only history has shown teams that get superstars early in the draft go on to win titles....oh wait, it does.

Maybe we misunderstood the meaning behind this statement...If so sorry

[Sothron]

Maybe we misunderstood the meaning behind this statement...If so sorry

Eh its ok man. My crankiness factor is probably higher than it should be but I don't like this idea that suddenly I hate the new guys or I hate that we traded Joe. I don't have a problem with either. I just want this team to get superstars, don't care how we get them, because I want to see this franchise finally win a ring in my life time.

[Peoriabird]

Eh its ok man. My crankiness factor is probably higher than it should be but I don't like this idea that suddenly I hate the new guys or I hate that we traded Joe. I don't have a problem with either. I just want this team to get superstars, don't care how we get them, because I want to see this franchise finally win a ring in my life time.

I think that is the plan...not a Chris Paul or Darren Williams star but a real one like Howard. Things may not work out for us and Howard because the breaks just seem to go to teams like the Lakers and the Heat. Well get there some day with Ferry.

[AtLaS]

Sothron is right. A superstar is needed to win a title, there have been two exceptions. The best way to acquire one is via the draft. If you're one of the top destinations, it is easier to acquire someone through a trade or free agency. We aren't.The others try to count Miami as an example of a team that won titles with trades/signings but forget that Shaq only agreed to go there because Wade was already there. Same with LeBron and Bosh, they wouldn't have signed with Miami without Wade being a part of the team. Once you have a star player and a solid team, stars will want to align. We don't have that.

[Peoriabird]

I just don't see Wade as a superstar sorry...A very good player just like Mello, CP3 and Darren William but not a superstar like Labron or Howard

[EazyRoc]

I just don't see Wade as a superstar sorry...A very good player just like Mello, CP3 and Darren William but not a superstar like Labron or Howard

Wade was a bonafide superstar earlier in his career. He was always in contention for a scoring title/MVP and was extremely popular.

[APE]

Wade was a bonafide superstar earlier in his career. He was always in contention for a scoring title/MVP and was extremely popular.

And couldn't get out of the first round when it all depended on him.