Did the fans understand what we had in Joe?

[NineOhTheRino]

You do realize even the great Michael Jordan wasn't "so special" according to you because he didn't "shine" until he had a team around him, right? Joe never had a player on his level while in Atlanta.

I'm not fighting this fight today. I'll say what I feel. Joe is slow and boring. Joe is boring and slow. Some of us were sick of seeing that guy dribble and shoot lazy floaters. That product the Hawks were putting out, esp for the casual fan, was damn near unwatchable at times. I'm happy he's gone. I was at the point where I would rather watch the Hawks go 0-82 than suffer through another predictable JJ season. Predictable since we knew the season would end with JJ sucking in the playoffs and the team getting bounced in the second round. Edited July 25, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Sothron]

I'm not fighting this fight today. I'll say what I feel. Joe is slow and boring. Joe is boring and slow. Some of us were sick of seeing that guy dribble and shoot lazy floaters. That product the Hawks were putting out, esp for the casual fan, was damn near unwatchable at times. I'm happy he's gone. I was at the point where I would rather watch the Hawks go 0-82 than suffer through another predictable JJ season. Predictable since we knew the season would end with JJ sucking in the playoffs and the team getting bounced in the second round.

So you once again avoid the point I made. Not once in Atlanta did Joe play with a good point guard nor did he even play with a guy on the same level let alone a better player. No one player wins rings on his own despite what you and some others apparently believe.

[ATLSmith]

I think most Hawks fans understand how good JJ is but they are waiting to see how the Hawks will fair without him before deciding if, "Daym... JJ was a beast" or, "Joe was good, but just didn't work out as well as expected".I wonder if the Hawks will double-team JJ when he comes to town...

[Admin]

So you once again avoid the point I made. Not once in Atlanta did Joe play with a good point guard nor did he even play with a guy on the same level let alone a better player. No one player wins rings on his own despite what you and some others apparently believe.

Josh Smith last year was clearly on Joe's level and probably superior and you can easily argue that 2 years ago when Al went 15/10 and led all bigs in assists and FG% that he was on Joe's level. I somewhat agree with Nino here that Joe was far too often boring and predictable and with that contract and his penchant for nagging injuries and declining skills it was time to move on. The only areas where I think we'll really miss Joe are his size mismatch at SG and ability to defend a variety of positions plus his ability to hit big shots late in the game... and while those are big shoes to fill, I'm ready to try and do that with a platoon approach of quality players.

[NineOhTheRino]

So you once again avoid the point I made. Not once in Atlanta did Joe play with a good point guard nor did he even play with a guy on the same level let alone a better player. No one player wins rings on his own despite what you and some others apparently believe.

I don't disagree. The guy never played with a decent PG or another player on his level. It was not his fault he was sold to the fanbase as something he's not. ASG and Billy Knight should have never marketed him as a superstar. A real superstar does not need to be surrounded by talent to play like a superstar.

[Sothron]

I don't disagree. The guy never played with a decent PG or another player on his level. It was not his fault he was sold to the fanbase as something he's not. ASG and Billy Knight should have never marketed him as a superstar. A real superstar does not need to be surrounded by talent to play like a superstar.

Even if Joe was a superstar he STILL wouldn't have won a ring. Why? Because he would be the only superstar on the roster. You need at least two in order to win rings in today's NBA. I'm glad you at least agree that he never had a decent PG or even a player on his level though despite what Dolfan seems to think.

[Admin]

Even if Joe was a superstar he STILL wouldn't have won a ring. Why? Because he would be the only superstar on the roster. You need at least two in order to win rings in today's NBA. I'm glad you at least agree that he never had a decent PG or even a player on his level though despite what Dolfan seems to think.

Your blind love of Joe is glaring here if you cannot admit that Josh last year was at least Joe's equal and so was Horford 2 years ago.

[Peoriabird]

Over the past 5 years, the Hawks were an above .500 team with Joe out of the line up. A respectable 14-10. The Hawks were a below .500 team with Josh Smith out of the line up at 8-12. So you tell me who is more important to the team's success?

[Sothron]

Your blind love of Joe is glaring here if you cannot admit that Josh last year was at least Joe's equal and so was Horford 2 years ago.

Josh was not on Joe's level neither was Horford although Horford was closer. When a defense will literally set itself up to let a guy take as many jump shots as he wants, unguarded I might add, then you aren't on anyone's level. Joe is the third best player in the entire NBA at his position. You can't say that about Josh or Horford.

[Sothron]

Over the past 5 years, the Hawks were an above .500 team with Joe out of the line up. A respectable 14-10. The Hawks were a below .500 team with Josh Smith out of the line up at 8-12. So you tell me who is more important to the team's success?

Because 24 or 20 games in what almost 400 games is a healthy sample size.

[NineOhTheRino]

The original question was, "Did the fans understand what we had in Joe?"I think the fact that most fans jumped for joy when they heard the news he was traded answers this question

[Sothron]

The original question was, "Did the fans understand what we had in Joe?" I think the fact that most fans jumped for joy when they heard the news he was traded answers this question

That's only due to the contract. I'm one of Joe's biggest fans and even I support the trade because that contract was killing us. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what the player was or what he did on the court.

[Plainview1981]

I'm pretty sure guys like you made excuses whenever I made note of this teams limitations for years. Now, Joe didn't play with any talent.Joe was largely the player he was always going to be. Maybe with a great PG his shooting percentages go up and his assists go down. Joe is slightly better than guys like Mashburn and Steve Smith. That's who he is.

[Admin]

Josh was not on Joe's level neither was Horford although Horford was closer. When a defense will literally set itself up to let a guy take as many jump shots as he wants, unguarded I might add, then you aren't on anyone's level.

The numbers don't agree with your position as Josh was absolutely the equal to Joe last year and just because he has a major hole in his game doesn't change the fact that he's significantly better than Joe in other areas to make up for that.

Joe is the third best player in the entire NBA at his position. You can't say that about Josh or Horford.

Nobody other than a Joe fan would make that statement. 5-6 years ago, sure, but today? It's not even remotely true.

[Sothron]

The numbers don't agree with your position as Josh was absolutely the equal to Joe last year and just because he has a major hole in his game doesn't change the fact that he's significantly better than Joe in other areas to make up for that. Nobody other than a Joe fan would make that statement. 5-6 years ago, sure, but today? It's not even remotely true.

The numbers don't agree with me? You mean Josh shooting around 35% from 18-23 feet and taking about 10-15 of those shots a game? When a defense literally sets up to let any player take uncontested jump shots that is more than a huge hole. That automatically eliminates any talk of someone being at the same level as a six time All Star. Go watch our series against Boston and see the double teams Joe had versus the literally wide open shots they gave Josh. I don't think the Celtics felt they were on the same level. As for the second part it isn't just myself that thinks that way. Apparently the coaches think enough of Joe to make him a six time consecutive All Star at the SG position. The only two SGs better than Joe in the NBA right now are Kobe and Wade.

[Admin]

Again you're only area to criticize Josh is his FG% on jump shots but you're ignoring where Josh is better in nearly every other facet of the game. All Star voting as a means of supporting a position in an argument is pretty foolish. If Allen Iverson were on the ballot for 2013 he'd get voted in!

[hawkman]

The fans knew what they had in Joe. Ignore all the "he doesn't care about the fans" stuff, because the people who harp on that probably didn't like him beforehand anyway. That comment was taken out of context and most people know that. I think the majority of the fans appreciated Joe but wanted more out of him when it really counted. As a fan of his, I got tired of being disappointed during the Playoffs time and time again. I expected more, period. I expected our best player to match the opponent's best player and that didn't happen often enough. When it did happen, the fans went friggin crazy in the stands and were firmly behind Joe and the team. But like I said earlier, it just didn't happen often enough. I'll miss Joe, but I understand why the trade had to happen. If you can't be the 'guy', then we can't afford to pay you like you're the 'guy' if that prevents us from signing a player who's willing to be and capable of being the 'guy' who can get us over the top.

[eddy]

The reason he is flamed for the contract, is because he packs up and goes home in big games.When you get paid as much as 4, or 5 players combined, you have to produce EVERY GAME, or impact the game, even when you aren't scoring. He just shrugged his shoulders and mailed it in.Good riddance

[Diesel]

Atlanta basketball fans are very knowledgable. We knew exactly what we had in him. A very good two-way player who no one wanted to pay to see. Ferry realized he had to go because he was killing the team's public relations at the turnstiles with his contract and hampering us on the court by not being able to explode against upper echelon teams.

One star player alone can't do it. If they wanted Joe to bust onto the next echelon, they should have gotten him some real help. Look at Kobe before Gasol? Look at Pierce before Allen and KG. Look at Lebron before Wade and Bosh. Look at Steve Nash all these years. Nash is a two time MVP that has never been in a Finals. Not even when he had Stoudamire and a monster team. The point is that you just can't say that just because Joe made money that he was supposed to do what nobody else can and carry a team alone.

[Diesel]

IF JJ were 26, I'd be mad if we traded him but he's 31 and "pretty good", not great. What good is it to have an older Iso-joe and get bounced out of the playoffs every year in the first round. Didn't we see the same thing with Nique? We kept him too long and got nothing after he left. I want the prospect of getting better FA's and seeing just how good Horford and JSmooth are without JJ.

The prospect of getting Better FAs is french for saying you want nothing. Since we traded Nique, do you know how hard it was to draw FAs? We have to overpay. What we will end up doing is maxing a lesser talent like Smoove and maxing another lesser talent like Harden to keep a team that can get the 7th seed in the playoffs and go out in the first round... We've seen this before. At some point, the owners have to figure out that this is an enterprise and if you want to win, you have to go after the talent with wrecklessness while making responsible decisions with lesser talent.