Did the fans understand what we had in Joe?

[Diesel]

Jordan Crawford's opinion?

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT JORDAN CRAWFORD'S OPINION IS!!

It's a funny line.. but FAR FROM THE TRUTH...

Why are you defensive?

Crawford did not say that the Hawks made a mistake.

It has nothing to do with the Hawks.

Crawford speaks as somebody who actually plays the game and has worked out with Joe Johnson up close.

SO based on that... And For that reason ALONE... I'm Out.

[Diesel]

Yeah, cause crawford is a bigger star than all-NBA center al horford...

By default. Watch Horf play against Big Centers and say that again.

[Diesel]

Your blind love of Joe is glaring here if you cannot admit that Josh last year was at least Joe's equal and so was Horford 2 years ago.

You can't be somebody's equal until you go through what they go through. If Josh had seen 1 double team all season, I would be inclined to agree. If Josh had to face the teeth of the defense.. I would agree. Here's what Joe got... wide open looks from outside that allowed him to shoot uncontested long twos and threes. The defensive gameplan against the Hawks was to double Joe... clog the lane and let Josh do what he wants to do. The one thing that every team knew was that Josh is not going to beat you. He's too inconsistent. The same is true about Horford. Horf is a player that needs somebody to take the pressure off of him. He needs a good pass and room to shoot. He hasn't seen a Double team since he left Florida.

[Sothron]

Again you're only area to criticize Josh is his FG% on jump shots but you're ignoring where Josh is better in nearly every other facet of the game. All Star voting as a means of supporting a position in an argument is pretty foolish. If Allen Iverson were on the ballot for 2013 he'd get voted in!

Josh isn't a better positional defender than Joe and it isn't even close. Yes, Josh gets more blocks and steals and some highlight plays but that's not up to par to what Joe does and how defenses play him. As for All Star voting you know you are wrong for bringing that up. The COACHES put Joe in the All Star game six times. SIX times. Not once was he voted in. The coaches of half the NBA thought he was the second best SG at least in the East and put him in six times as a result. 'Nuff said.

[Peoriabird]

There was a reason that teams double team Joe more than others. Some of it has to do with Joe not being able to move the ball quick enough once the double team came so it was an effective defense against the Hawks since Joe stopped the ball so much. Josh has better court vision than Joe especially on the low block and therefore was a more dangerous passer than Joe. Joe would run the clock down and either shoot a tough shot or pass with seconds left on the shot clock on a regular basis so yeah I would employ that strategy if i were an opposing coach for that very reason

Edited July 25, 2012 by Peoriabird

[Admin]

You can't be somebody's equal until you go through what they go through. If Josh had seen 1 double team all season, I would be inclined to agree. If Josh had to face the teeth of the defense.. I would agree. Here's what Joe got... wide open looks from outside that allowed him to shoot uncontested long twos and threes. The defensive gameplan against the Hawks was to double Joe... clog the lane and let Josh do what he wants to do. The one thing that every team knew was that Josh is not going to beat you. He's too inconsistent. The same is true about Horford. Horf is a player that needs somebody to take the pressure off of him. He needs a good pass and room to shoot. He hasn't seen a Double team since he left Florida.

Good to see the Joe protection force out in full effect!

[ViperXX79]

Joe super protection star 7 team GO!

[hawkman]

There was a reason that teams double team Joe more than others.

Some of it has to do with Joe not being able to move the ball quick enough once the double team came so it was an effective defense against the Hawks since Joe stopped the ball so much. Josh has better court vision than Joe especially on the low block and therefore was a more dangerous passer than Joe. Joe would run the clock down and either shoot a tough shot or pass with seconds left on the shot clock on a regular basis so yeah I would employ that strategy if i were an opposing coach for that very reason

+This post. That was the most frustrating thing for me. I still can't think of a reason why Joe would wait for the double team AND then continue to hold the ball after the double team came. The national media trashed the Hawks for this and rightfully so. There were so many times I was screaming "GO!" when he first got the ball that I can't even count.

[AHF]

Joe was the best offensive player on the team the last two years but wasn't the best player either season, IMO. Our MVPs the last two years were Al and Josh.

[Plainview1981]

It's a funny line.. but FAR FROM THE TRUTH...

Why are you defensive?

Crawford did not say that the Hawks made a mistake.

It has nothing to do with the Hawks.

Crawford speaks as somebody who actually plays the game and has worked out with Joe Johnson up close.

SO based on that... And For that reason ALONE... I'm Out.

I wasn't being totally serious, man.

That said, I'm not really concerned about what he thinks. He barely played here, he is dumb player himself and he has nothing to do with the team.

[Plainview1981]

It's a strange thing... The real failure is the poor drafting. That's the number 1 failure of this franchise this decade. That said, they've still managed 5 straight playoff appearances even with all those mistakes. So the players that we had, they succeeded despite ownership, poor coaching and poor management.It is NOT Joe's fault that this franchise didn't get out of the 2nd round. That Marvin over Paul pick will stand out for years to come.

[Admin]

Joe was the best offensive player on the team the last two years but wasn't the best player either season, IMO. Our MVPs the last two years were Al and Josh.

Now that AHF has said it, mark it down as true! Take that Joe protection force!

[Sothron]

It's a strange thing... The real failure is the poor drafting. That's the number 1 failure of this franchise this decade. That said, they've still managed 5 straight playoff appearances even with all those mistakes. So the players that we had, they succeeded despite ownership, poor coaching and poor management. It is NOT Joe's fault that this franchise didn't get out of the 2nd round. That Marvin over Paul pick will stand out for years to come.

Years? Years? That pick is one of the all time great busts. The Hawks were building a team on the verge of being dangerous and all it lacked was a point guard on a team full of 6'8" players. So what does idiotic Billy Knight do? Ignore not one but TWO yes TWO "once in a generation" point guards to draft a complete bust of a player that only duplicated the glut of 6'8" players on the roster. We'll be talking about that for as long as we live. There have been a few "What if..." moments in franchise history and that one is at the top of the pile.

[thecampster]

Josh isn't a better positional defender than Joe and it isn't even close. Yes, Josh gets more blocks and steals and some highlight plays but that's not up to par to what Joe does and how defenses play him. As for All Star voting you know you are wrong for bringing that up. The COACHES put Joe in the All Star game six times. SIX times. Not once was he voted in. The coaches of half the NBA thought he was the second best SG at least in the East and put him in six times as a result. 'Nuff said.

Joe does not fight through screens, play's ole' against smaller quicker guards and does not leave his man to double team period. His extremely low assist and rebound percentages tell you all you need to know.

[Diesel]

Good to see the Joe protection force out in full effect!

Soon, we all we be on the Joe protection force... Unless there are some who are willing to fight against the truth like those who thnk Marvin's going to be something now. I think we made a mistake trading Joe if the only thing we get is financial freedom. Financial freedom without the promise of getting a star in return in Atlanta = running the team on the cheap and building from the draft.

[Diesel]

+This post. That was the most frustrating thing for me. I still can't think of a reason why Joe would wait for the double team AND then continue to hold the ball after the double team came. The national media trashed the Hawks for this and rightfully so. There were so many times I was screaming "GO!" when he first got the ball that I can't even count.

The thing about that was that when Joe had the ball, everybody stopped moving. Who was there to pass to? Funny thing is that until last year, Joe led this team in assists every year he played here.

[Eddielives]

One star player alone can't do it.

If they wanted Joe to bust onto the next echelon, they should have gotten him some real help. Look at Kobe before Gasol? Look at Pierce before Allen and KG. Look at Lebron before Wade and Bosh. Look at Steve Nash all these years.

Nash is a two time MVP that has never been in a Finals. Not even when he had Stoudamire and a monster team.

The point is that you just can't say that just because Joe made money that he was supposed to do what nobody else can and carry a team alone.

Okay. Here is where a fundamental misunderstanding of the Joe criticism lies. I can't speak for others, but Joe not reaching "superstar" status or not being able to single-handedly carry the Hawks to a championship is not what the expectation was with him to most fans. Myself and probably many others, would feel completely different about Joe and his time as a hawk if he had simply been more clutch, consistent and a stronger vocal leader of this team. Let me add too that he could have performed much better in the playoffs(which is kinda synonymous with being clutch), barring the first Boston series where I think he was very good. If that Joe had been the Joe to play for the Hawks for the past 2-3 years, I'm willing to bet you that those here who are glad he's gone would have much kinder words to say about him. But pointing out his much to often disappointing play is accurate and backed up by the facts. Excusing his declining numbers and lackluster star quality clutch plays with assertions that he just didn't have good enough teammates to take the pressure off of him is, in my opinion, just that...making excuses. Bottom line, he could and should have been better.

[AHF]

We'll be talking about that for as long as we live. There have been a few "What if..." moments in franchise history and that one is at the top of the pile.

My biggest "what if" moment in Hawks history is what if we didn't trade Bill Russell and built around him and the best player in Hawks history, Pettit. Dynasty? Likely. Edited July 25, 2012 by AHF

[Plainview1981]

Good to see the Joe protection force out in full effect!

[benhillboy]

We're knowledgable fans here. In society, majority votes win out. When I first started, I was probably the lone Frequent Joe "Hater," then along came NineOh, and MVP, to most of Joe's fans extreme chagrin, among other enlightened individuals. After a sufficient sample size of his work here, more are glad he's gone than those who aren't. I think that sums it up. D and North (Exodus, anyone?) see the big picture of his game and all he was asked to do with what he was surrounded with, and that's totally fine. I recognize it and always have. But there comes a time when every individual player has to be accountable for his stat sheet and production. What if Bibby said "I could've averaged x more assists if Joe had gone quicker with two or fewer dribbles" or Josh and Al said "I could have x amount more offensive rebounds if Joe collapsed the defense more and I could follow his misses off the rim"? Marvin probably couldve benefitted the most from a more paint-attacking Joe getting him dump-offs and bounces for easy opportunities after drawing his man's attention. His stationary ball handling style hampered his team just as much as their lack of talent in areas hampered him. What if Woody or Drew said "if Joe got to the line just average for a guy of his size, skill, and minutes, we'd average a couple more points a game and be able to set our defense down the floor a couple more times a game, which would be a huge difference in close decisions". As open-minded as I am, my hate for his overall approach to the game swelled per what I saw nightly and through stats, as I've enumerated ad nauseum through the years. I cant see how anyone other than his mother could defend some of the points per attempt numbers or playoff percentages that Camp posted. For an extremely large shooting guard, who can shoot, they are simply appauling. The national media paid no attention at all to the start or the end of the Joe Era. We should move on as well and start anew. Hell, if Sothron can, anybody can.