Talkin' Blasephemy

[Wretch]

Yeah...I think it's time.First, let me say...I'm pretty sure this squad as is will make the playoffs. Then what? Being realistic, I see a strong fight in the 1st round. The absolute best is a 1 or 2 wins in the 2nd round...and I think that's pushing it. What is the point of this team?I'm also just not very fond of it. Over the years, there has been something - Mookie/Smitty/Deke, Nique, rebuilding from 2004 - that has pulled me to the TV. This year, I'm just not feeling it. I'm really just...not interested in seeing another year of Josh waste his potential trying to prove something. There's no JJ and no "hope Marvin can [do something]". Horf is as solid as he's always been and still out of position.It's like my house... Stuff is falling apart here and there. Stuff needs to be fixed. My kids have outgrown it. I've been driving the same neighborhood for 13 years. It's time for a change. Just start over in a new neighborhood, new and bigger house, taking a new route home and to the store...For the Hawks, it's time to rebuild. Full on rebuild and I'd rather do it now than later. I'd keep Teague, but everybody else...young talent and draft picks.Let me state for the record...I'm not doubting that it will be a good season this year. I am doubting that this team as constructed will accomplish anything meaningful late in the season. I don't see a free agent out there that's going to make a difference. We need a SG and/or a big and one of Josh/Al needs to go. Who is going to make that much of a difference?We waiting on CP3 to leave the Clips?We waiting on D12 to turn down the money and the glamour of LA?Your savior - James Hardin - is locked down in Houston.What are we thinking here? I just don't see it man and I have a creeping fear in my chest. That Danny Ferry is of that "Babcock" mold. The one that refuses to lose. The one that tries to keep a competitive team on the floor no matter the cost. We'll see with the moves that he makes through this season. But if I don't see Josh or Al (or both) dealt before the deadline, I will have my answer.You can go ahead and stone the wretched, blasphemous, doomsayer now (that's how I got my handle BTW lol).

[HorfordTheBeast]

100% agree with everything you just said. Fantastic post!There's something off about this team. I'm just not that into it this year, and I think you've nailed why I have that sinking feeling. Why invest the time to watch on TV or head downtown, when we all know exactly how this movie ends?

[DrReality]

Too early to judge. Don't break it down. Tweek it

[hazer]

Why invest the time to watch on TV or head downtown, when we all know exactly how this movie ends?

For the sheer entertainment value of this squad. And the anticipation of what a talented GM can do with a lot of expirings and cap space. This is exciting stuff for me. Y'all aren't "feeling it" because these are all new faces without any developed chemistry. Yet.

[HawkItus]

you guys are nuts, this is the most fun I've had watching the team since that playoff series against Boston. How can you not cheer for this team? It's like the land of misfit toys. You got young undersized guys, playing with vets that have been sipping on the luke warm of cup coffee which is their career. You have want to be stars who just realized the lead man left for another show so now they have the opportunity to headline. It's awesome theater and if you don't watch you'll be the guy at the water bottle missing out on the fun.

Edited November 8, 2012 by sultanofatl

[macdaddy]

First, let me say...I'm pretty sure this squad as is will make the playoffs. Then what? Being realistic, I see a strong fight in the 1st round. The absolute best is a 1 or 2 wins in the 2nd round...and I think that's pushing it. What is the point of this team?

So how is this different than the last 20 years? So we endure 7 years of lottery, minor league basketball again just to get back to this point? That's the biggest gamble in the world. There are other ways than striking it rich in the lottery. I would much rather cheer for a good exciting team that may not make it to the finals than have to sit through 13 win seasons again. Not to mention the new cba is going to make for some other possiblities.

[NiquesBiggestFan]

I'm excited about the team. I'm excited to watch Teague grow as a player. I'm excited to see what Josh and Al can do as the leaders of this team. I'm excited that D Ferry has put together a solid team while the process, or his plan, unfolds. This is a fun team to watch. The guys can shoot lights out. Look at the emotion on this team, it's much greater than last season. I was tired of JJ and Marvin. THAT's what make me not want to watch the Hawks. JJ wasn't fun. Marvin just wasn't good enough. Surely no one thinks we were fun with those 2. I'm excited and look forward to the rest of the season.

[Dragitoff]

The thing about this team as it is currently constructed is we at least have a chance to build something great! Before, we were strapped by ridiculous contracts for a team that had a 2nd round ceiling. This team this year will be fun to watch. Do we realistically expect a championship? I think most logical fans wouldn't, but they'll be fun to watch. Everyone this season IMO is auditioning for a part on next year's team. Ferry will choose the pieces that fit, that succeed, and that give us the best chance to win a championship and he'll try to piece those players with free agents, trade targets, etc... I think the future is bright in Hawksville!

[macdaddy]

The thing about this team as it is currently constructed is we at least have a chance to build something great! Before, we were strapped by ridiculous contracts for a team that had a 2nd round ceiling. This team this year will be fun to watch. Do we realistically expect a championship? I think most logical fans wouldn't, but they'll be fun to watch. Everyone this season IMO is auditioning for a part on next year's team. Ferry will choose the pieces that fit, that succeed, and that give us the best chance to win a championship and he'll try to piece those players with free agents, trade targets, etc... I think the future is bright in Hawksville!

two other points. Last year's team didn't even get out of the first round. What teams in the nba realistically think they are going to win the championship this year? Heat, Celtics, OKC, Spurs, LAL. Anyone else? The east is wide open except for the Heat which means we're one Lebron ankle roll from being in the ECF conversation. Plus i think this team matches up better with the heat anyway.

[ATLscrubLove]

Why does everyone want Horford gone? The only way if ship him out is if we were locked to get D12 and CP3, in which case we would probably have to trade Horf via a sign and trade for d12.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

You're not a fan if you can't get excited for your team... This is the most excited I have been for a Hawks season. Usually this time of the year, I am Falcons, Falcons, Falcons. They are 8-0 and I care more about my Hawks right now. I've been watching the Falcons games, but Monday-Saturday, I'm all about the Hawks. We finally have the fresh start that we all have been waiting for and it didn't take us the length of Joe's contract to get there. We can finally start working towards getting better instead of just anticipating second-round exits. We knew the what the ceiling was for WLOC; we have no clue how far this team and Danny Ferry can go. I guess what I am excited about the most is the future and I am okay that I know a championship this season isn't feasible. We have a lot of building blocks and puzzle pieces for the future on this roster right now...

[DatWerkk]

Everything about this team is different. We have - what? - nine new guys, and most if not all of the returners are filling new roles. I'm sorry, but if you ask me we ARE in a new neighborhood and we ARE taking a new route.

[Dragitoff]

I think part of the audition process this season will be to see if Josh can play the 3 and if Al can play the 4. If not, I agree that one or both of them probably has to go, but if they can, that certainly gives you a few more options. While there are fewer true centers in the game today, you still have to rebound and defend the paint. Those questions will be answered. At least we're not a rebuilding team that has to endure 2 or 3 horrible seasons in order to have those questions answered.

[Wretch]

Am I fan?

Yes. You may not be the same person calling me an "non-fan", but you are that person's spiritual successor. lol I have heard that one many times, and I'll give you my trademark response: I have been laughed out of more bars and barbershops over the past nearly 30 years for supporting my Hawks than I care to remember. When I was in the military, I had an entire unit...like 50 dudes making jokes about me, my team, and my expectations. I've been watching this team since I was 11 years old (I'm 37 BTW), and I have always supported them - going to games, watching games, buying merchandise. I even support a Hawks fan site - with my own money and always will regardless of their record. You may have heard of it? We're...talking on it?

So yeah. I'm a fan.

Too early to judge?

lol... It was too early to fire Woody. Too soon to talk about tanking in 2003 (where I remember people calling me a non-fan then too). Too soon to give up on WLOC. It's always too early. But this thing started in 2003/04 and I know the two players that you guys are pinning your hopes on. I'm not saying get rid of them because they are terrible. I'm saying, move them because by themselves, we're not going to accomplish anything.

Yeah...if we got a super talented 2 guard. But then he'd have to be better than JJ, or else...we're looking at the same results. I mean...we've seen FOUR playoff seasons with WLOC? About SIX total seasons of WLOC? And...it's STILL too early to judge the remaining 60% of WLOC?

It's too early to judge...? No it's not.

Trade Josh Smith?

Yes. Do it and don't even think about it. Josh cannot carry this team offensively. He is a HORRIBLE mid range shooter, but he loves to shoot it. To be honest, his offensive game is a little above average. He is not a primary scoring option...but he shoots the ball like Kobe Bryant. His game is all over the court and specifically inside. But his role is that of an X-factor, not a leader. In the X-factor role, he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever - nobody fills the stat sheet like he does. As a primary scorer/leader...we're f***ed.

I would like to see this team rebuild and trading Josh would give us a huge jump on that.

Same with Horford.

I love Horford, but he's not Karl Malone 2.0. He and Josh are finesse PF's, with Al having a little more power game. I like my PF's dirty and brutish. I like low post threats. I like a big dude that commands a double in the paint, not a face up jump shooter. I like a Ben Wallace/Charles Oakley/Dennis Rodman/Charles Barkely dude that will do DIRT - rebounds, blocks, high % shots. I don't dislike Al and I think he's a great team player. He just has a lot of value and is the type of talent that can fetch an attractive package. Including Al/Josh is the start of a blockbuster type deal.

The East is not wide open

- We are not going to beat Chicago.

- We are not going to beat the World Champs.

- I doubt that we can beat NY and if they keep their shit together, we can't.

Moreover...the East may be weak, but that isn't the time to stand up and pound your chest. "HEY! Look at me! I'm the king!" While there is talent coming into the league and deals that are GOING to happen that will tip the landscape. Put your hopes on this, and you will find teams leapfrogging you within a season or two. Meanwhile...

You're not going to win this season.

You're not going to beat these powerhouse teams that rise from beneath you.

You're not going to win later on.

You just prolong the inevitable.

Can you hear my tone of voice?

Does it sound angry and aggressive Or do I sound like...I can barely hear you guys. Should know it's the latter. I have seen this thing too many times. I KNOW how it's going to end. Yeah...if we could put an impact FA pick up at the 2 or the 5, we would have a pretty solid core. Make no mistake though, that's what we had with JJ...

I don't need to see how this season plays out. I already know. I love my team, but we're missing something. Something big and until we get it, there is no point in plodding forward. That's what rebuilding is about. When you approach that cycle of mediocrity, you need to get out. You go up or you go down, and then you come back up.

Everything about this team is different. We have - what? - nine new guys, and most if not all of the returners are filling new roles. I'm sorry, but if you ask me we ARE in a new neighborhood and we ARE taking a new route.

Yeah...we're in a new apartment. Not a new house. And it's not even a high end apartment.

The thing about this team as it is currently constructed is we at least have a chance to build something great! Before, we were strapped by ridiculous contracts for a team that had a 2nd round ceiling. This team this year will be fun to watch. Do we realistically expect a championship? I think most logical fans wouldn't, but they'll be fun to watch. Everyone this season IMO is auditioning for a part on next year's team. Ferry will choose the pieces that fit, that succeed, and that give us the best chance to win a championship and he'll try to piece those players with free agents, trade targets, etc... I think the future is bright in Hawksville!

Yeah... You have to add somebody though. I've been over the lists and your boy Hardin was like...IT. Unless you trade one of Josh/Al for a more potent 2 or 5. Capspace means nothing when you can't attract FA's. And you can't attract FA's if you don't have a serious contender. You guys think this is a serious team?

The same team...full of journeymen...plus some rookies...minus JJ...is a serious team to you guys?

Look, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm telling you. Pushing forward with this "no lose" mentality is dangerous. Mark my words...if we don't make a major deal with AL/Smoove, we are looking at Bacock 2.0 and Mookie/Smitty/Deke or WLOC all over again. I have been singing this song for 15 years. I know the lyrics back and forth.

Some of you I've actually talked to about it for half that time.

The rest of you, I've actually talked to you too...just a different person saying the same thing.

The bottom line is good is not going to cut it. But you guys are still clinging to it. I'm not saying don't watch the games, don't support the team, don't be a fan. Not at all. I'm going to watch plenty of games this year. I'm saying...we need to part with the old regime. Completely. It IS time to start fresh.

One or both of AL/Josh needs to go and we need to start our search for a franchise quality talent. I can tell you right now, I would not be upset (or surprised), to see Josh Smith traded. It's just time man.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Wretch

[Bahamut]

Usually this time of the year, I am Falcons, Falcons, Falcons. They are 8-0 and I care more about my Hawks right now. I've been watching the Falcons games, but Monday-Saturday, I'm all about the Hawks.

I wish more people understood this. All I hear is, "it's still football season, I'll watch bball in March." I wonder what those morons do the other nights of the week. Personally, I only care about Atlanta teams, so pro football is one day a week for me. This time a few years ago, I was watching Hawks, Falcons, and Thrashers, so it's amusing when people can't even juggle two teams.

[Final_quest]

The thing is we could be doing exactly what you are asking for. Don't we have almost all expiring contracts? They could be trading another part of WLOC by February. This roster was not built to make a run in the playoffs. It was built for financial flexibility so that we can change when the right players come along. Lou is the only player I see us committed to. Everyone else is on the market for the right price. Be patient with the shaping of the roster. It's still in transition. We are in a good place to trade for talent and picks.

[Vol4ever]

Am I fan?

Yes. You may not be the same person calling me an "non-fan", but you are that person's spiritual successor. lol I have heard that one many times, and I'll give you my trademark response: I have been laughed out of more bars and barbershops over the past nearly 30 years for supporting my Hawks than I care to remember. When I was in the military, I had an entire unit...like 50 dudes making jokes about me, my team, and my expectations. I've been watching this team since I was 11 years old (I'm 37 BTW), and I have always supported them - going to games, watching games, buying merchandise. I even support a Hawks fan site - with my own money and always will regardless of their record. You may have heard of it? We're...talking on it?

So yeah. I'm a fan.

Too early to judge?

lol... It was too early to fire Woody. Too soon to talk about tanking in 2003 (where I remember people calling me a non-fan then too). Too soon to give up on WLOC. It's always too early. But this thing started in 2003/04 and I know the two players that you guys are pinning your hopes on. I'm not saying get rid of them because they are terrible. I'm saying, move them because by themselves, we're not going to accomplish anything.

Yeah...if we got a super talented 2 guard. But then he'd have to be better than JJ, or else...we're looking at the same results. I mean...we've seen FOUR playoff seasons with WLOC? About SIX total seasons of WLOC? And...it's STILL too early to judge the remaining 60% of WLOC?

It's too early to judge...? No it's not.

Trade Josh Smith?

Yes. Do it and don't even think about it. Josh cannot carry this team offensively. He is a HORRIBLE mid range shooter, but he loves to shoot it. To be honest, his offensive game is a little above average. He is not a primary scoring option...but he shoots the ball like Kobe Bryant. His game is all over the court and specifically inside. But his role is that of an X-factor, not a leader. In the X-factor role, he has the potential to be one of the greatest ever - nobody fills the stat sheet like he does. As a primary scorer/leader...we're f***ed.

I would like to see this team rebuild and trading Josh would give us a huge jump on that.

Same with Horford.

I love Horford, but he's not Karl Malone 2.0. He and Josh are finesse PF's, with Al having a little more power game. I like my PF's dirty and brutish. I like low post threats. I like a big dude that commands a double in the paint, not a face up jump shooter. I like a Ben Wallace/Charles Oakley/Dennis Rodman/Charles Barkely dude that will do DIRT - rebounds, blocks, high % shots. I don't dislike Al and I think he's a great team player. He just has a lot of value and is the type of talent that can fetch an attractive package. Including Al/Josh is the start of a blockbuster type deal.

The East is not wide open

- We are not going to beat Chicago.

- We are not going to beat the World Champs.

- I doubt that we can beat NY and if they keep their shit together, we can't.

Moreover...the East may be weak, but that isn't the time to stand up and pound your chest. "HEY! Look at me! I'm the king!" While there is talent coming into the league and deals that are GOING to happen that will tip the landscape. Put your hopes on this, and you will find teams leapfrogging you within a season or two. Meanwhile...

You're not going to win this season.

You're not going to beat these powerhouse teams that rise from beneath you.

You're not going to win later on.

You just prolong the inevitable.

Can you hear my tone of voice?

Does it sound angry and aggressive Or do I sound like...I can barely hear you guys. Should know it's the latter. I have seen this thing too many times. I KNOW how it's going to end. Yeah...if we could put an impact FA pick up at the 2 or the 5, we would have a pretty solid core. Make no mistake though, that's what we had with JJ...

I don't need to see how this season plays out. I already know. I love my team, but we're missing something. Something big and until we get it, there is no point in plodding forward. That's what rebuilding is about. When you approach that cycle of mediocrity, you need to get out. You go up or you go down, and then you come back up.

Yeah...we're in a new apartment. Not a new house. And it's not even a high end apartment.

Yeah... You have to add somebody though. I've been over the lists and your boy Hardin was like...IT. Unless you trade one of Josh/Al for a more potent 2 or 5. Capspace means nothing when you can't attract FA's. And you can't attract FA's if you don't have a serious contender. You guys think this is a serious team?

The same team...full of journeymen...plus some rookies...minus JJ...is a serious team to you guys?

Look, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm telling you. Pushing forward with this "no lose" mentality is dangerous. Mark my words...if we don't make a major deal with AL/Smoove, we are looking at Bacock 2.0 and Mookie/Smitty/Deke or WLOC all over again. I have been singing this song for 15 years. I know the lyrics back and forth.

Some of you I've actually talked to about it for half that time.

The rest of you, I've actually talked to you too...just a different person saying the same thing.

The bottom line is good is not going to cut it. But you guys are still clinging to it. I'm not saying don't watch the games, don't support the team, don't be a fan. Not at all. I'm going to watch plenty of games this year. I'm saying...we need to part with the old regime. Completely. It IS time to start fresh.

One or both of AL/Josh needs to go and we need to start our search for a franchise quality talent. I can tell you right now, I would not be upset (or surprised), to see Josh Smith traded. It's just time man.

Agreed 1,000%

[Ruckus]

I wholeheartedly agree we need to trade Josh as soon as possible. I don't agree we should trade Horford.But to say you feel something is "off" is hilarious to me. I mean what did you guys expect this season. If Ferry was entirely worried about winning this season then our offseason would have been very very different, believe me. He wants to build a contender. It just so happens our squad is pretty damn good as is.

[thecampster]

you guys are nuts, this is the most fun I've had watching the team since that playoff series against Boston. How can you not cheer for this team? It's like the land of misfit toys. You got young undersized guys, playing with vets that have been sipping on the luke warm of cup coffee which is their career. You have want to be stars who just realized the lead man left for another show so now they have the opportunity to headline. It's awesome theater and if you don't watch you'll be the guy at the water bottle missing out on the fun.

+1001

[Wretch]

The thing is we could be doing exactly what you are asking for. Don't we have almost all expiring contracts? They could be trading another part of WLOC by February.

This roster was not built to make a run in the playoffs. It was built for financial flexibility so that we can change when the right players come along. Lou is the only player I see us committed to. Everyone else is on the market for the right price.

Be patient with the shaping of the roster. It's still in transition. We are in a good place to trade for talent and picks.

That...is my hope. See, that right there would make me go from uninspired to PISSED. OFF. The forward thinking has to be to change as soon as the opportunity arises. We've got to get out of this. Thing is...I don't see the fire sale. Maybe that's just the nervousness in me. Which is why (as always) I'm holding my breath until the trade deadline. If I don't see a major move by February, I'm thinking "win without losing" has been resurrected.

To be honest, it should have happened already. There are teams that are interested in our forward combo. Lots of them. This could have happened already...but I am going to hold my breath. For those not wanting to bother with the process of rebuilding...look. This is very simple.

You're going to meet a certain kind of team in the playoffs. You can quantify it with numbers and advanced stats, but it's much more simple than that. You know these teams when you see them. As a fan, you think anything is possible and you hope. The reality of it sets in when you REALLY look at that team - and you know you've got no chance.

This team is not going to beat Chicago or Miami

The era we just left was not going to be Boston or Cleveland

The 90's Hawks weren't beating the Bulls or Knicks

The 80's Hawks weren't beating the Pistons, Celtics, or Bulls.

And waiting to make the road difficult were always Orlando, Indiana, Milwuakee...and just a pile of really good teams - some like us, some a little better than us. Thing is, you look at those top teams...and there is just a WALL of talent, hell bent on a singular goal, led by franchise talent, and coached by the BEST their teams can get. You're just not going to roll in there with your half-assed squad and make a dent in that wall.

You're going to get smacked in the mouth. And nobody likes a loser - not the media, not the fans, not the free agents that you want to come here. Not even when they're a grandaddy like Shaq 2 seasons from retirement. You can't beat those teams like this. You can't go toe to toe with those kinds of teams unless you have those kinds of players.

And can this club, in this town, really afford 5-6 more years of mediocrity...only to start rebuilding THEN and have the rebuilding process take 3 to 7 MORE years?