Danny Ferry: "We're not focused on trying to be the eighth seed in the playoffs because that's not our goal."

[HawkItus]

Nobody is taking cheap shots. Everybody in here is a real fan. He's just being realistic and not a blind homer.

Nah, I reject that. Name anything else in life where you claim to care about it, but won't accept positives about it? Won't respect the work that is put in by the very group you claim to support? Consistently make adverse comparisons to everyone involved in something you claim to care about? No, sir, you are critic at that point. Even the biggest Obama hating right winger was proud when Osama went down. Fans celebrate the wins, no matter how they came.

[Wretch]

Nah, I reject that. Name anything else in life where you claim to care about it, but won't accept positives about it? Won't respect the work that is put in by the very group you claim to support? Consistently make adverse comparisons to everyone involved in something you claim to care about? No, sir, you are critic at that point. Even the biggest Obama hating right winger was proud when Osama went down. Fans celebrate the wins, no matter how they came.

It is not up to you to decide who is and isn't a fan - according to your standards. Just because you don't agree with my philosophy of team building, it doesn't invalidate me as a fan. That'd be the same as me saying you're not a fan because you want to see the team continually LOSE in the 1st/2nd round and are happy with that. Neither of us gets to make the case for who is or isn't a fan.

As much time as I've spent watching this team and cheering for it, the drafts I've followed, the research I've done to make my arguments...for nothing but passion, no sir. You don't get to say I'm not a fan. You can be a hater and you can condemn/misunderstand my point of view all you want. It means absolutely nothing.

...and I am also allowed to be a critic. I am allowed to speculate and form my own opinions. My opinion is that not every win is a positive. In the simplest example of that...let's say we steamroll one team all year long and we match up well against them. Let's also say that there is another team that swept us by double digits during the season. Our last game of the season determines our seeding and who we face...win, we face the team that beat the crap out of us. Lose, and we face the team that we dominated. Is it ok to hope for a loss here?

The people who don't want to see us make the playoffs believe that it is in our better interests to gain a top 10 lottery pick and a chance at the top 3...vs a very likely 1st round sweep and a late 1st round pick (the 18th to be exact). Rebuilding is just like retreating in battle. Best to take a step back regroup when it does more harm to charge in foolishly when you've got no chance. That doesn't mean you're a coward (or a non-fan). It means you smart enough to weigh alternatives.

[HawkItus]

It is not up to you to decide who is and isn't a fan - according to your standards. Just because you don't agree with my philosophy of team building, it doesn't invalidate me as a fan. That'd be the same as me saying you're not a fan because you want to see the team continually LOSE in the 1st/2nd round and are happy with that. Neither of us gets to make the case for who is or isn't a fan.

As much time as I've spent watching this team and cheering for it, the drafts I've followed, the research I've done to make my arguments...for nothing but passion, no sir. You don't get to say I'm not a fan. You can be a hater and you can condemn/misunderstand my point of view all you want. It means absolutely nothing.

...and I am also allowed to be a critic. I am allowed to speculate and form my own opinions. My opinion is that not every win is a positive. In the simplest example of that...let's say we steamroll one team all year long and we match up well against them. Let's also say that there is another team that swept us by double digits during the season. Our last game of the season determines our seeding and who we face...win, we face the team that beat the crap out of us. Lose, and we face the team that we dominated. Is it ok to hope for a loss here?

The people who don't want to see us make the playoffs believe that it is in our better interests to gain a top 10 lottery pick and a chance at the top 3...vs a very likely 1st round sweep and a late 1st round pick (the 18th to be exact). Rebuilding is just like retreating in battle. Best to take a step back regroup when it does more harm to charge in foolishly when you've got no chance. That doesn't mean you're a coward (or a non-fan). It means you smart enough to weigh alternatives.

Dude I have no problem with you not wanting us to make the playoffs. I have no problem with you or anyone not liking the direction Danny has taken. But, I do have an issue with any so called fan that can't offer any positive comments about this team. Any "fan" who won't acknowledge this team is full of some of the toughest SOB's to put on a Hawks uniform. Any fan who won't marvel at the sheer will of this coaching staff to face adversity and get more than expected out of this club. If you can't at the least give a hand of applause for the good smart basketball you see nightly on the offensive in with no "superstar", then I'm sorry, you are not a fan.

[ViperXX79]

It is not up to you to decide who is and isn't a fan - according to your standards. Just because you don't agree with my philosophy of team building, it doesn't invalidate me as a fan. That'd be the same as me saying you're not a fan because you want to see the team continually LOSE in the 1st/2nd round and are happy with that. Neither of us gets to make the case for who is or isn't a fan.

As much time as I've spent watching this team and cheering for it, the drafts I've followed, the research I've done to make my arguments...for nothing but passion, no sir. You don't get to say I'm not a fan. You can be a hater and you can condemn/misunderstand my point of view all you want. It means absolutely nothing.

...and I am also allowed to be a critic. I am allowed to speculate and form my own opinions. My opinion is that not every win is a positive. In the simplest example of that...let's say we steamroll one team all year long and we match up well against them. Let's also say that there is another team that swept us by double digits during the season. Our last game of the season determines our seeding and who we face...win, we face the team that beat the crap out of us. Lose, and we face the team that we dominated. Is it ok to hope for a loss here?

The people who don't want to see us make the playoffs believe that it is in our better interests to gain a top 10 lottery pick and a chance at the top 3...vs a very likely 1st round sweep and a late 1st round pick (the 18th to be exact). Rebuilding is just like retreating in battle. Best to take a step back regroup when it does more harm to charge in foolishly when you've got no chance. That doesn't mean you're a coward (or a non-fan). It means you smart enough to weigh alternatives.

[Diesel]

What GM in the world is going to say 'we need an upgrade in talent'. How many guys want to play for him? If you're boss said 'well we're doing good as a company but we could use people with more talent' would you take that well?

Actually, quite a few GMs have muttered something like... We need talent. or we need more talent.

[Diesel]

I don't know what you guys are talking about but building a contender in 1-2 years is not feasible. Look at the Mavs. Cuban has all the money in the world he wants to willingly spend to get a title and they are heading for an OKC beat down in the playoffs. What an idiot right? Building a team is a process and it's slow. Particularly when you have to recover from a Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams hangover.

We've been conditioned to think that building a winning team is a slow process. Mainly because we've never built one. However, look over the teams that are always in the championship picture and think about what they did to get there?

Miami.... signed three superstars.

OKC... had three good drafts and the right coach.

San Antonio.... Had a championship team and reloaded with Tim Duncan.

Just look over those teams that you call championship and you will find that the good teams with the right stuff in the front office don't take long to get to the championship.

Here's a little gentleman's bet for you...

I bet you that the Boston Celtics will be in the championship picture before we will.

And I don't even bet.

[macdaddy]

We've been conditioned to think that building a winning team is a slow process. Mainly because we've never built one. However, look over the teams that are always in the championship picture and think about what they did to get there?

Miami.... signed three superstars.

OKC... had three good drafts and the right coach.

San Antonio.... Had a championship team and reloaded with Tim Duncan.

Just look over those teams that you call championship and you will find that the good teams with the right stuff in the front office don't take long to get to the championship.

Here's a little gentleman's bet for you...

I bet you that the Boston Celtics will be in the championship picture before we will.

And I don't even bet.

The Heat went 5 seasons after winning with Shaq never getting out of the first round. Why didn't they sign 3 superstars 5 years sooner?

Okc had decades of irrelevance in seattle before they got top 5 picks in great drafts

San Antonio made the conference finals once in 10 years with Robinson and then became champions with the arrival of Duncan and Pop. They weren't a championship team before the greatest power forward in history fell in their lap.

[drzachary]

Danny Ferry traded Marvin and Joe. What more could you possibly want from the man? He's not a sorcerer.

[nathan2331]

A lot of you keep forgetting that we Danny can tank at any time. Say in 2 years Danny gets the impression Horford doesn't want to resign, he can trade him for a lottery pick and start rebuilding.

[Diesel]

The Heat went 5 seasons after winning with Shaq never getting out of the first round. Why didn't they sign 3 superstars 5 years sooner?

Okc had decades of irrelevance in seattle before they got top 5 picks in great drafts

San Antonio made the conference finals once in 10 years with Robinson and then became champions with the arrival of Duncan and Pop. They weren't a championship team before the greatest power forward in history fell in their lap.

About the Heat...

In the same time, we beat them in the first round... and yet, it's 2 championships later for them... and we're back at the drawing board... Like I said... Front office + coaching.

OKC = Still good drafts... by Good Front office + good coaching.

San Antonio = Pop was GM/Coach.... AKA... good front office + good coaching.

[Diesel]

A lot of you keep forgetting that we Danny can tank at any time. Say in 2 years Danny gets the impression Horford doesn't want to resign, he can trade him for a lottery pick and start rebuilding.

But why waste time? You're saying let's wait 2 years in probable mediocrity.

I have said this from the beginning BK had the very same plan but his was better in that he knew that he had to firesale everything and get into the lottery. Horf is not a difference maker as a first option. Ferry should have been sold him off too.

[nathan2331]

But why waste time? You're saying let's wait 2 years in probable mediocrity.

I have said this from the beginning BK had the very same plan but his was better in that he knew that he had to firesale everything and get into the lottery. Horf is not a difference maker as a first option. Ferry should have been sold him off too.

I'm not saying I want that to happen, but he doesn't have to necessarily always operate within our interests.

GMs in his position can buy themselves more time once they choose to rebuild.

[DJlaysitup]

GMs in his position can buy themselves more time once they choose to rebuild.

BK chose the "total rebuild" approach...and milked it for a lot of checks.

...but let's be honest. The problem with BK's approach was not his actual approach...it was his inability to judge talent. If he had taken Chris Paul over Marvin and done even a "bit" better on other stuff we would be contenders right now.

It's kind of like asking which is the better defense in football...the 3-4...or the 4-3...it really doesn't matter if you have the right guys in charge who can get the right talent. If not....

[AHF]

The comments early on the thread focusing on the wording of Ferry's message don't make much sense to me except as a way of blowing off frustration. When Ferry is talking to the press, he should be very conscious of his messaging. What can he influence through the media and what impact does talking up our team have?

* He can influence public perception of our players. This influences trade value. Talking down your guys doesn't do anything positive here.

* He can influence public and media perception of our franchise. While we blew our wad in the short-term, we aren't that far off from being able to dip back into max $$ FAs and/or significant $$ free agents. Part of the game in landing those guys is winning the public perception battle. Again, I see no negatives from being positive in the press.

* He can influence public perception of his own job performance. Ferry has self-interest and has put together this roster so why would he call himself out? If he says we need to upgrade talent, he needs to be able to follow that statement with how we would upgrade. Having ditched our shot at a top draft pick (unless the lottery gods smile on us), Ferry will be in the range of picking players who go from potential stars to washouts. That isn't a high enough probability to set high expectations. So, again, he should stay positive about the current players to protect himself.

So the bottomline is that Ferry is being smart and showing some wisdom by staying positive given where we are.

The real issue to tackle is the strategic plan and actions taken by Ferry. Wretch has hit on these so well I am just going to applaud his posts and keep moving here. People can have different opinions on the best approach to team building and my focus is less on what Ferry says and more on what he does. I have issues with some of his actions but not with his interviews. I like that he has generated more positive press for the Hawks in the media than I can remember.

[willthepureshooter]

I don't and never will condone a LOSING mentality. I think its a shitty strategy that rarely works in an organizations favor. As timid as the Hawks fan base is Danny Ferry should have a WIN-FIRST culture. That's how successful businesses are modeled. Look at how Arthur Blank and Rich McKay changed the Falcons franchise. Ferry got lucky in Cleveland with Lebron and chose to abandon ship afterwards. The Mavericks stuck with their team and won an NBA Championship. It's more about chemistry than talent in basketball. Look at Indiana, Toronto, and even Memphis. Hell! Look at all of the upsets in the Ncaa tournament. Chemistry drives championships more than talent. The Seattle Seahawks taught us that this year.

[BudBall]

Well football and NCAA are not good examples because it is a 1 and done scenario where anything can happen. Toronto and Memphis are basically similar or even weaker teams then the no chance going past 2nd round teams we have had with the Joe Johnson led teams. In a 7 game series having premier Talent is the most important and easiest way to being a championship winning franchise. Chemistry, teamwork (these 2 are eventually developed anyway), and good coaching can follow after.

Edited April 3, 2014 by ISO

[macdaddy]

About the Heat...

In the same time, we beat them in the first round... and yet, it's 2 championships later for them... and we're back at the drawing board... Like I said... Front office + coaching.

OKC = Still good drafts... by Good Front office + good coaching.

San Antonio = Pop was GM/Coach.... AKA... good front office + good coaching.

What's your point? Of course good front office and good coaching = winning and we've had that for all of 3/4 of a season. My point is it takes time to make things happen. Just like it took 5 years for the Heat to return to relevancy because the opportunity just wasn't there before.

If all it takes is good front office+good coaching then why did the Heat have the 5 shitty years with Riley/splostera and a superstar already on the team? I'll answer it for you: You can't always get what you want. You can try sometimes but you just might find you have to clear the dead wood, be flexible and ready for the opportunity to pull the trigger on championship moves.

[Admin]

BK chose the "total rebuild" approach...and milked it for a lot of checks.

...but let's be honest. The problem with BK's approach was not his actual approach...it was his inability to judge talent. If he had taken Chris Paul over Marvin and done even a "bit" better on other stuff we would be contenders right now.

It's kind of like asking which is the better defense in football...the 3-4...or the 4-3...it really doesn't matter if you have the right guys in charge who can get the right talent. If not....

Personally I think the 46 defense is better but hey different strokes for different folks.

[Diesel]

What's your point? Of course good front office and good coaching = winning and we've had that for all of 3/4 of a season. My point is it takes time to make things happen. Just like it took 5 years for the Heat to return to relevancy because the opportunity just wasn't there before.

If all it takes is good front office+good coaching then why did the Heat have the 5 shitty years with Riley/splostera and a superstar already on the team? I'll answer it for you: You can't always get what you want. You can try sometimes but you just might find you have to clear the dead wood, be flexible and ready for the opportunity to pull the trigger on championship moves.

Let's get the facts a little bit straighter.

Spoolstra took over in 2009.

He had two seasons where his team went to the first round of the playoffs. The first year, their second leading scorer (Marion) missed half of the season. The next year, Wade was the team. The point proven by Wade James and Bosh is that it requires more talent than just one superstar player to win in this league. When they got Wade, James, and Bosh, they went to the finals. They lost.

So my point is that moves can be made that gets you into the championship picture faster than waiting a quarter of a century for something to develop.

Your point is what???

That you can win without talent or that it takes a long time to get talent??

Personally I think the 46 defense is better but hey different strokes for different folks.

Richard Dent?? Is that you?

[Admin]

Let's get the facts a little bit straighter.

Spoolstra took over in 2009.

He had two seasons where his team went to the first round of the playoffs. The first year, their second leading scorer (Marion) missed half of the season. The next year, Wade was the team. The point proven by Wade James and Bosh is that it requires more talent than just one superstar player to win in this league. When they got Wade, James, and Bosh, they went to the finals. They lost.

So my point is that moves can be made that gets you into the championship picture faster than waiting a quarter of a century for something to develop.

Your point is what???

That you can win without talent or that it takes a long time to get talent??

Richard Dent?? Is that you?

Using the current Heat team as an example of what could or should be done is kinda useless as it's only happened once and took collusion by the 3 players to make it happen.

Nope I'm Ryan Ryan, the 3rd Ryan twin, unknown to most people.