Merged: Greg Monroe Topics

[Guest]

Haha wait we give them Sap who is better than Monroe and we throw in the best shooter in the league? (Ya I said it, best shooter)

Hell to the no-Whitney rip

[benhillboy]

I wouldn't even do Korver straight up for Monroe.

[Guest]

  Not saying he is, but I see Tim Duncan in Greg Monroe, especially if Monroe can regain his midrange jumper.

I missed this. C'mon @PSSSHHHRRR87

[Guest]

Haha wait we give them Sap who is better than Monroe and we throw in the best shooter in the league? (Ya I said it, best shooter)

Hell to the no-Whitney rip

Too soon, Spud2N.  Still too soon.

 

Ohhhh, I wanna dance with somebody .... 

[JTB]

What do you consider a 'cornerstone'? you do understand what that means? I'ts the thing that supports your entire system on offense AND defense.

That's because on defense, Millsap can still hold his own along with Horford.

Monroe is bad defensively, even in team concepts.

That's not true....Detroit has been so badly managed over the last couple of years there's no telling what kind of potential Monroe has.

This is just like the al jefferson issue where fans think he can't play defense but he gets to the bobcats and is used the correct way and with the help of coaches and other players jefferson is considered at the least an average defender.

Just sayin we can't determine how players will be on our team from how they performed with other team especially with a coach like ours Mike Budenholzer.

[JTB]

Millsap and Korver are guys you add to an already-established core to make an elite team:

Millsap and Korver added to Dwight & Harden is elite.

Millsap and Korver added to Durant & Westbrook is elite.

Millsap and Korver added to James & Irving is elite.

Millsap and Korver on the Hawks makes a great team, but nothing that'll win titles and isn't elite.

In my eyes, the Hawks have Horford - that's it. We are far from seriously contending for titles, even in the weaker Eastern conference. Monroe won't put us over the top, but Monroe/Horford is a step in right direction because that establishes a front court that compliments each other and is elite offensively. Defensively, we would be fine for the time being w/ Horford, DMC, and Thabo out there. We would still need serious improvements at 2 and 3 and maybe even Teague if he doesn't keep up his end-of-year play to begin contending for titles in 3 years.

If the Hawks would have been able to sign Melo or bring in Durant, then I'd keep Sap/KK because that would be elite, but the Hawks haven't shown to secure the big fish, so we have to take chances and trade fan faves to build a roster. Being safe and holding on to aged assets does nothing but keep us in the middle of the pack. Roll the dice that Bud will make Monroe better and trade for him.

I'm all for it! Just not for Korver....the pot will need to be sweeten! Sap is an all star and would compliment Drummond better anyways. But adding Korver to is over the top and they will need to sweeten the pot.

[capstone21]

I thought the whole point for Detroit was that both Monroe and Smith can't play PF and Smith can't play SF.

 

Bringing in Sap still presents that dilemma for Detroit as Smith will continue to play SF which only hurts that team.

[Dragitoff]

What am I missing here?  If the Hawks renounced Brand and Ayón and held off the signings of Bazemore, Mack and Scott until after a deal with Monroe is consummated, wouldn't they still have almost $10 million in capspace to spend?  If so, what's the max Monroe can get?  His caphold is $10,216,135 according to shamsports.  I really don't understand why this rumor has any legs to it whatsoever.  Korver is tailor made for Bud's offense and I certainly don't see him leaving in any proposed deal and especially for a deal like this.  You don't trade an all-star from the previous year on a good contract (even if it's expiring) and the best shooter in the NBA (both players invited to Team USA) for a young borderline All-Star that's about to get paid big $$$. 

 

If my calculations are correct, you'd trade a non-factor player like Jenkins or even Schröder if you truly believe Teague is the present and future at PG for Monroe and you're done.

 

Horford $12,000,000

Millsap $9,500,000

Teague $8,000,000

Korver $6,253,521

Sefolosha $4,150,000

Carroll $2,442,455

Payne $1,855,320

Schröder $1,690,680

Antić $1,250,000

Muscala $816,482

Salmons $1,000,000 (part that's guaranteed)

Mack $1,148,163 (cap hold)

Scott $1,115,243 (cap hold)

Monroe $11,000,000

TOTAL PAYROLL $62,221,864

 

Bazemore for the exemption @ $2.1 million or whatever his rumored salary was going to be. 

 

Teague/Mack/Schröder

Sefolosha/Bazemore

Carroll/Korver/Scott

Horford/Millsap/Payne

Monroe/Antić/Muscala

 

That's 14 players on the roster.  What am I missing? 

[Guest]

What am I missing here? If the Hawks renounced Brand and Ayón and held off the signings of Bazemore, Mack and Scott until after a deal with Monroe is consummated, wouldn't they still have almost $10 million in capspace to spend? If so, what's the max Monroe can get? His caphold is $10,216,135 according to shamsports. I really don't understand why this rumor has any legs to it whatsoever. Korver is tailor made for Bud's offense and I certainly don't see him leaving in any proposed deal and especially for a deal like this. You don't trade an all-star from the previous year on a good contract (even if it's expiring) and the best shooter in the NBA (both players invited to Team USA) for a young borderline All-Star that's about to get paid big $$$.

If my calculations are correct, you'd trade a non-factor player like Jenkins or even Schröder if you truly believe Teague is the present and future at PG for Monroe and you're done.

Horford $12,000,000

Millsap $9,500,000

Teague $8,000,000

Korver $6,253,521

Sefolosha $4,150,000

Carroll $2,442,455

Payne $1,855,320

Schröder $1,690,680

Antić $1,250,000

Muscala $816,482

Salmons $1,000,000 (part that's guaranteed)

Mack $1,148,163 (cap hold)

Scott $1,115,243 (cap hold)

Monroe $11,000,000

TOTAL PAYROLL $62,221,864

Bazemore for the exemption @ $2.1 million or whatever his rumored salary was going to be.

Teague/Mack/Schröder

Sefolosha/Bazemore

Carroll/Korver/Scott

Horford/Millsap/Payne

Monroe/Antić/Muscala

That's 14 players on the roster. What am I missing?

1. Monroe's max is approx $15 million.

2. Detroit is seeking something of value in exchange - don't think Jenkins qualifies.

[EazyRoc]

Greg Monroe is not that good. Hes not that efficient and horrible unless hes right under the basket. He will never be a good defender and will probably only be average at best as a help defender. Not only that we would be stuck with him for years. Theres nothing to guarantee he will get much better as a player just because hes 24. Hes produced similar numbers for the past couple of years...

[EazyRoc]

Not to mention adding a player who is a defensive liability is the last thing we need to do.

[Dragitoff]

Monroe's max is $14,746,000. I'd think that the $11m you are putting out is unrealistic, but that is beside the point.

A big point of all this to me is that on the one hand you have someone reporting an agreement between the Hawks and Mack/Scott and then saying the Hawks could wait to sign them. That isn't how the CBA functions and isn't how the NBA has operated in the past (although Silver may see this differently). Once you have an oral agreement, that is the salary of the player and it is counted towards Team Salary. This could easily be lawyerspeak and there hasn't been an agreement, but that isn't what I've seen reported. There are even people making reports of the signing and then saying the Hawks have $X cap space...well then there is something wrong here. You are incorrect in reporting or incorrect in your analysis.

 

I pulled my data from shamsports which was still reporting them by their capholds only and Bazemore's deal was not even accounted for on there.  By that, I came up with the salary.  Let's just say that the Hawks did offer that max deal to Monroe, wouldn't they still have the flexibility to offer Millsap straight up (or more likely flip him to a 3rd team) for Monroe?  Why would Korver or another player need to be added?  It would appear the Hawks would still have enough room under the cap to take back Monroe's max salary even with Mack and Scott's actual deals in place? 

 

Again, I state that I think the inclusion of Korver is inaccurate if there is even any credibility to the rumor, but was trying to point out the potential inaccuracies due to real cap space vs. rumored cap space.  You're definitely the expert on this so I'm glad you commented.  I really was just curious. 

[Sothron]

I would trade Millsap and Korver in a heartbeat for a full signed Monroe. We could finally move Horf to PF, leave Monroe at C because he literally CAN NOT defend at the PF. Then we can see what all these new guys can bring to the table in Bazemore, Thabo etc.

Edit: just saw hawkfanatic bring up the BYC issue of sign and trade. Ugh. Well, it was a nice thought.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Sothron

[Dragitoff]

Right, Mark Deeks hasn't put on the Baze, Mack, or Scott deals. He doesn't put up deals until they become official, which I believe is because he has access to someone who works in an analytics department in the NBA and can view their intranet of salaries. So, those deals aren't likely to be official and are likely to still be negotiated right now. I'm being a bit of a sourpuss on this issue of Pincus reporting the deals and then reporting Cap Space, he's trying to phrase things differently to generate more page views. But he's phrased it so differently that it is wrong.

You're right about the Cap Space issue. I mean, this whole conjecture about Monroe coming to Atlanta is 100% bullshit started up from someone who wants pageviews. He may or may not know how wrong he is, it is hard to tell. But as I posted a few moments ago, there is also the issue of Detroit needing some sort of an exception to absorb Millsap and Korver. They simply cannot. And you're also right to point out that the Hawks do not need to send out Korver in this scenario, it is redundant. Just sending out Millsap would work, and it also skirts the BYC issue. No matter Monroe's starting salary, the Pistons can absorb Millsap's contract with Cap Space and be fine. The Pistons could not absorb both Millsap and Korver because of the BYC issue...these are reasons why the Monroe reasoning is so stupid. But hey, it got people talking about it!

 

Thanks for the clarifications for sure.  Regardless of what side of the fence you're on regarding who is more valuable (Monroe vs. Millsap) and who fits better, you have to look at facts too to see what the heck even works and doesn't work under CBA.  I have a very generic understanding of it, mostly thanks to you @hawksfanatic so I never want to come across as an expert, but this just seemed to jump out as a bogus claim on so many levels. 

[Gray Mule]

He's great offensively?

 

He doesn't have any attempts from beyond the arch, so he's never had a three pointer.

 

Therefore, his shots comes from closer up, which he hits 50% of his shots.

 

He shoots free throws much like former Hawk, J Smoove, @  .678.  You all know that

the old man cringes when free throws are missed and he misses almost as many as he hits.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

He's great offensively?

 

He doesn't have any attempts from beyond the arch, so he's never had a three pointer.

 

Therefore, his shots comes from closer up, which he hits 50% of his shots.

 

He shoots free throws much like former Hawk, J Smoove, @  .678.  You all know that

the old man cringes when free throws are missed and he misses almost as many as he hits.

 

So a guy has to be able to shoot threes in order to be considered great offensively?  He isn't a SF or SG.  Have you watched any games of Monroe in the post?  And the reason he has only hit 50% of his shots is because Drummond forces him outside of his comfort zone into the midrange.  Monroe is not a midrange player.  He thrives in the low post and Monroe has elite post moves and is a beast in the paint - something the Hawks desperately need.  6'11" Greg Monroe next to 6'10" Al Horford is one hell of a tandem because Monroe would hold down the post and Horford would thrive in the midrange.  They compliment each other really well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opw6NIo9XhY

 

And the thing about his defense - it really isn't that terrible.  It isn't Lou Williams' saloon-door bad.  Yeah, he defends like his feet are in mud, but he isn't built to defend power forwards.

 

And the only center in the league that I can think of that can play in the low and high post is Demarcus Cousins.  I wouldn't trust any other center in the league to create offense from both the low and high post.

[Eddielives]

I'm just not sure what to think of this possibility.  I think we'd be giving too much but good centers are hard to come by in this league.  If I'm Detroit I sure hope the deal goes down.  Drummond is going to be a superstar and pair him with Millsap and Korver's shooting...Mann!  They would be an exciting team.

[Diesel]

If there is a deal, I hope it's one with more than these three players.

 

For instance,  Sap/Korver for Monroe/Meeks... in which case, the deal happens after the 14th of Aug.

 

Prolly not though.

 

The bright side to a deal like Sap/Korver for Monroe is that Monroe is a cornerstone player.

 

I can easily see Monroe being a 20/10 player at C.  I just don't think we send Korver in for that deal.   Maybe Jenkins or even Thabo.

[Ryaan]

Unless KCP is involved, I'm not digging losing Korver

[NBASupes]

Trading Korver is a no no. Trade Dennis is a no no. Sap and filler for Monroe is ideal.