Private agendas still at play in Hawks’ offices

[DJlaysitup]

Ferry has been with us basically two seasons so far (this is only his third season with the hawks) and inherited a horribly flawed team and organization. It takes time to build a winner and look where we are now.

Yep...I admit I was kind of against Ferry to begin with...but you can't argue with results. And really, who cares if the guy is our GM for the next 5 years without spending a day in the "office"? They've got all this new communication technology stuff nowadays (internets, phones without wires, twitters).

[JETSET]

Again did any of Ferry's moves get past the 2nd round? Nooooooooooooo!. Did those other guys win title or get to the Conference finals? Yes. The titles and Conference finals win. Sorry, no contest. That's like saying you ate right and worked out to lose 10 pounds of fat. I did whatever I wanted and lost 15. Guess what I did better than you.

Be careful, you might throw your back out with all that ducking and dodging.

[RandomFan]

Danny Ferry is a great GM and we would be much worse off if he left. 

 

There are two statements of fact in your sentence. I think what some peope might be having trouble with is that there are those of us that agree with one of those statements, but aren't convinced regarding the other statement. Personally, I agree that Ferry did an absolute fantastic job as our GM. Anyone that disputes that should probably have their head examined.

 

But saying we will be much worse off from this point forward, I'm less inclined to agree with that statement. As I mentioned in a long post a few pages back, there are reasons that it will "maybe" not be the best thing for Ferry to be here anymore. And I emphasize the operative word "maybe." I think it's 50/50 right now if our future would be worse or better without Danny. Obviously he's done tremendous things. Who knows if someone else could have done what he's done, and who cares. The fact of the matter is that HE DID IT. And we should always be very appreciative for that.

 

But the fact is past success does not guarantee future success. And the other side of that coin is the absence of the person responsible for that past success does not guarantee future failure. Danny did a great job, but I am confident enough in Coach Bud and the things he's learned from Pop and Buford over the years to keep going this good thing that Ferry got us started towards.

 

The bottom line for some of us, like me, are that we'll be comfortable if Ferry is welcomed back, OR also if he isn't and Bud is given the reigns of this team permanently. I don't see it as alarmingly detrimental to the team if Ferry is never allowed to return, while concurrently also holding his accomplishments here in very high regard. We are in good shape for the future if Ferry or Bud are in charge, and I firmly believe that.

Edited February 14, 2015 by RandomFan

[willthepureshooter]

Whatever you've been smoking, it's working well for you. Nique had a better supporting cast than Jordan ever did, and he never even sniffed a finals series. Get real.

I just laughed so hard I caught a foot cramp. Lol. Clearly your dope is much stronger than mine. Better than Jordan's team? Hahahahaha! Come on Watchman.

[JETSET]

There are two statements of fact in your sentence. I think what some peope might be having trouble with is that there are those of us that agree with one of those statements, but aren't convinced regarding the other statement. Personally, I agree that Ferry did an absolute fantastic job as our GM. Anyone that disputes that should probably have their head examined.

But saying we will be much worse off from this point forward, I'm less inclined to agree with that statement. As I mentioned in a long post a few pages back, there are reasons that it will "maybe" not be the best thing for Ferry to be here anymore. And I emphasize the operative word "maybe." I think it's 50/50 right now if our future would be worse or better without Danny. Obviously he's done tremendous things. Who knows if someone else could have done what he's done, and who cares. The fact of the matter is that HE DID IT. And we should always be very appreciative for that.

But the fact is past success does not guarantee future success. And the other side of that coin is the absence of the person responsible for that past success does not guarantee future failure. Danny did a great job, but I am confident enough in Coach Bud and the things he's learned from Pop and Buford over the years to keep going this good thing that Ferry got us started towards.

The bottom line for some of us, like me, are that we'll be comfortable if Ferry is welcomed back, OR also if he isn't and Bud is given the reigns of this team permanently. I don't see it as alarmingly detrimental to the team if Ferry is never allowed to return, while concurrently also holding his accomplishments here in very high regard. We are in good shape for the future if Ferry or Bud are in charge, and I firmly believe that.

Im not sure why you trust this front office to do the right thing if they mess up the only right thing they ever did in hiring Ferry. What happens if Ferry is let go and they don't follow Bud's request when it comes to GM?

[BrazilianHawk]

This!! The second and most disturbing reason why I don't want Ferry back in Atlanta. You go against a man whom singlehandedly made the Hawks a household name. Why block Dominique's statue? Was Ferry plotting to have his statue erected down the line after the Hawks won numerous championships? The guy is an egomaniac with a terrible history of drafting first rounders. He brought in tweener free agents that were greatly improved by our incredible staff. He's not a modern day Harry Potter. Ferry's the basketball version of Phil Helmuth.

 

With the team FERRY has built, just imagine if he was any good at drafting first rounders, We would be perennial champions!

 

Too bad for Ferry the draft is always so predictable and never a crapshot. It's very easy to draft superstars (that we don't even need) when you're drafting 15-25th, right?

 

I'll tell you what I think. If this team gets to the Finals and ends up winning it all, Danny and Bud will deserve statues thrice as big as Nique's.

[RandomFan]

Im not sure why you trust this front office to do the right thing if they mess up the only right thing they ever did in hiring Ferry. What happens if Ferry is let go and they don't follow Bud's request when it comes to GM?

Not really sure what you are getting at. Since the "front office" is all people that Ferry brought in since he's been here, excluding Koonin as Team President. The assistant GM Wilcox is a Ferry guy who is fully invested in the system that Ferry has brought in. That would most likely be who Bud would have working with him hand in hand, with how Bud and Ferry worked hand in hand previously. You would be losing one person from the current structure. Granted, it's the key guy who put all this structure in place to begin with. But lets not act like we couldn't recover from losing one guy when we have a great assett in Coach Bud who knows what he's doing too.

 

I think you might be referring more to ownership, not front office. And yes, ownership is a clown car right now. What makes you think they can be any more terrible than they've ever been? The front office isn't going to make the call on Ferry, the new owner(s) will.

 

Coach Bud and Wilcox will most likely be fine if Ferry doesn't return. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Only on page 4 of the reading of this thread, but RandomFan's post is the best one yet.  He hits on just about every point as to why the exiled GM will not be brought back.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Whatever you've been smoking, it's working well for you.  Nique had a better supporting cast than Jordan ever did, and he never even sniffed a finals series.  Get real.

 

Nique never played alongside a guy who was as good as Scottie Pippen ( edit: or Dennis Rodman )  Come on now.

Edited February 14, 2015 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Watchman]

Nique never played alongside a guy who was as good as Scottie Pippen ( edit: or Dennis Rodman )  Come on now.

Nique would have never allowed the Hawks to have anyone on the team who could steal his thunder.  He got bent out of shape because they paid Malone more than him.  My point is this, Nique is and always has been totally self centered.  Did it ever occur to any of you that the reason Nique doesn't like Ferry is based on a stupid statue?  Did it ever occur to any of you that Nique feels threatened because the Hawks, without any so-called superstars, have a chance of achieving more than any of the Hawk teams that he, the all-time greatest Hawk of all, ever did?  Nique's selfishness is why we never had a championship caliber team.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Interesting thread to say the least.

 

I knew from the time that I read that initial Saporta article back in ( September? ) about Dortch being mad at Ferry for blocking the statue, that this would be trouble for the exiled GM.

 

And it's not just about the statue.  It's about Levenson and Ferry basically alienating EVERYONE in the franchise, and doing things like how they wanted them to be done.   They had final say on everything, while everyone else were simply in the background, taking orders.  So the people who had egos in the front office ( Gearon, Nique, etc ), this "demotion" in their organization power was a hard pill to swallow.

 

 

For those of you dissing Nique . . . Nique IS the Atlanta Hawks.  He knows it.  The city knows it.  Hell, the entire NBA knows it.  And until we do something great ( which hopefully happens this season ), he will continue to be the face of the franchise.

 

As for Bud not being able to handle both being the GM and the coach, consider this quote from Bud back in October.

 

“I feel like there’s not a huge difference, to be honest with you,” Budenholzer said to Wallace.  

 

“Preparing for camp and little things that needed to be decided — who’s coming, who’s not, where we’re staying — so there’s a few of those conversations that impact my day. A few more people are probably coming into my office than prior.

 

It gives me a comfort level when I think I’ve been involved in a [spurs] program where the assistants and coaches have had a lot of input. R.C. [buford] and [Gregg] Popovich, those guys were amazing about listening. They valued our opinions. And now, I value everybody’s opinion.”

 

Let's not get it twisted people.  If the exiled GM were not to come back, we have a man in Budenholzer who actually came from the franchise that shaped the philosophy that the exiled GM now subscribes to.   Ferry learned that in his 2 years in San Antonio . . . as an Assistant GM . . . under R.C. Buford and Popovich.   Bud spent 17 years in San Antonio under those same men, and was involved in the decision making process for the Spurs.  So it's not a stretch to believe that he could operate just as or even more efficiently than the exiled GM, because he actually knows MORE about the Spurs culture, than the exiled one does.

 

Bud would have no problem handling both the coaching and GM duties.  And Wilcox ( a dude that worked under Ferry in Cleveland ), understands what kind of players fit in Bud's system.

 

But back to Nique.  Would some of you REALLY want to work for a man that didn't place much value in what you meant to the company?  I think that's what Nique's mindset is right now.  Could you REALLY respect someone, that didn't respect you?

 

If Ferry didn't care about a Nique statue . . or was hesitant on extending his tenure within the organization . . or lothed Ryan Cameron as an arena announcer . . or immediately got rid of Arthur Triche to change how the team was marketed . . it kind of shows that Ferry wanted to almost obliterate what little history the Hawks had, and mold and form everything into his own liking.  If that meant not giving an icon like Nique his statue, so be it.

 

Nothing wrong with that mindset, seeing that's normally what the "new guy" does . . change things to his liking.   But when you do that, it may not sit well with longtime fans or longtime executives within that organization.

Edited February 14, 2015 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Watchman]

Interesting thread to say the least.

 

I knew from the time that I read that initial Saporta article back in ( September? ) about Dortch being mad at Ferry for blocking the statue, that this would be trouble for the exiled GM.

 

And it's not just about the statue.  It's about Levenson and Ferry basically alienating EVERYONE in the franchise, and doing things like how they wanted them to be done.   They had final say on everything, while everyone else were simply in the background, taking orders.  So the people who had egos in the front office ( Gearon, Nique, etc ), this "demotion" in their organization power was a hard pill to swallow.

 

 

For those of you dissing Nique . . . Nique IS the Atlanta Hawks.  He knows it.  The city knows it.  Hell, the entire NBA knows it.  And until we do something great ( which hopefully happens this season ), he will continue to be the face of the franchise.

 

As for Bud not being able to handle both being the GM and the coach, consider this quote from Bud back in October.

 

“I feel like there’s not a huge difference, to be honest with you,” Budenholzer said to Wallace.  

 

“Preparing for camp and little things that needed to be decided — who’s coming, who’s not, where we’re staying — so there’s a few of those conversations that impact my day. A few more people are probably coming into my office than prior.

 

It gives me a comfort level when I think I’ve been involved in a [spurs] program where the assistants and coaches have had a lot of input. R.C. [buford] and [Gregg] Popovich, those guys were amazing about listening. They valued our opinions. And now, I value everybody’s opinion.”

 

Let's not get it twisted people.  If the exiled GM were not to come back, we have a man in Budenholzer who actually came from the franchise that shaped the philosophy that the exiled GM now subscribes to.   Ferry learned that in his 2 years in San Antonio . . . as an Assistant GM . . . under R.C. Buford and Popovich.   Bud spent 17 years in San Antonio under those same men, and was involved in the decision making process for the Spurs.  So it's not a stretch to believe that he could operate just as or even more efficiently than the exiled GM, because he actually knows MORE about the Spurs culture, than the exiled one does.

 

Bud would have no problem handling both the coaching and GM duties.  And Wilcox ( a dude that worked under Ferry in Cleveland ), understands what kind of players fit in Bud's system.

 

But back to Nique.  Would some of you REALLY want to work for a man that didn't place much value in what you meant to the company?  I think that's what Nique's mindset is right now.  Could you REALLY respect someone, that didn't respect you?

 

If Ferry didn't care about a Nique statue . . or was hesitant on extending his tenure within the organization . . or lothed Ryan Cameron as an arena announcer . . or immediately got rid of Arthur Triche to change how the team was marketed . . it kind of shows that Ferry wanted to almost obliterate what little history the Hawks had, and mold and form everything into his own liking.  If that meant not giving an icon like Nique his statue, so be it.

 

Nothing wrong with that mindset, seeing that's normally what the "new guy" does . . change things to his liking.   But when you do that, it may not sit well with longtime fans or longtime executives within that organization.

I don't equate respecting me with building a statue of me.  Sorry.  I don't expect anyone to build a statue of me.  Therefore I wouldn't get my boxers in a bunch about it, one way or another.

 

Now, as to Ferry, it's probably moot anyway, because if we get new owners, they will be able to retain Ferry or let him go, but somehow I doubt that they're going to turn over 100% control of their new toy to someone they don't know (Bud).  They're going to want to bring in their own people.  We'll end up with Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars as co-GMs, and Bob Weiss as coach.  All because of stupid Gearon's personal agenda.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Watchman

[NBASupes]

I am glad Ferry is gone for now. He was a cancer in his own right. With that said, the man made some great decisions and I can see why his stans love him but as for me. I like Wes Wilcox better. If Ferry never comes back and Bud remains GM, I am fine with that.

[OldTimeHawk]

In as much as Ferry knew we had to change the roster, he also knew he needed to change the culture. Like it or not Nique and all the others were part of that culture .  No one can be entirely sure what Ferry saw that was troubling within the organization but if the casual fan sees dysfunction what do you think goes on in the background behind closed doors.  

 

Ferry should have known there would be folks waiting for an opportunity to pounce, he just left his guard down and got nailed for reading that report, an offense that would equate to a ticky tack foul on the court being assessed as a flagrant ( In my opinion. ) .

[OldTimeHawk]

I am glad Ferry is gone for now. He was a cancer in his own right. With that said, the man made some great decisions and I can see why his stans love him but as for me. I like Wes Wilcox better. If Ferry never comes back and Bud remains GM, I am fine with that.

the cancer has been within the Hawks for years - its just been privately managed behind the scenes.

[JETSET]

Not really sure what you are getting at. Since the "front office" is all people that Ferry brought in since he's been here, excluding Koonin as Team President. The assistant GM Wilcox is a Ferry guy who is fully invested in the system that Ferry has brought in. That would most likely be who Bud would have working with him hand in hand, with how Bud and Ferry worked hand in hand previously. You would be losing one person from the current structure. Granted, it's the key guy who put all this structure in place to begin with. But lets not act like we couldn't recover from losing one guy when we have a great assett in Coach Bud who knows what he's doing too.

I think you might be referring more to ownership, not front office. And yes, ownership is a clown car right now. What makes you think they can be any more terrible than they've ever been? The front office isn't going to make the call on Ferry, the new owner(s) will.

Coach Bud and Wilcox will most likely be fine if Ferry doesn't return. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

I was talking about the owners. Guys like Wilcox will have zero say in Ferry's possible return.

[Gray Mule]

Couple of points I would like to make:

 

In the United States, no living person can appear on either the money or postage stamps.

Being an old retired rural mail carrier, I am well aware of this.

I feel that statues should regarded the same way.  You don't get a statue until you are deceased.

Nique was the face of the unsuccessful Atlanta Hawks for many years.  Just as J. Smoove was

the greatness behind "The highlight factory."  Maybe he deserves a statue also.

 

Almost everyone who wants Ferry gone, never to return to Atlanta but fine to go to another team,

feels that we should keep Bud.

 

What if - - - And I'm not saying it happens, but:  Suppose another team hires Ferry.  He's the one

who brought Bud here.  His plan, plus Bud is the reason Korver agreed to stay here.  What is to

prevent Bud, as soon as his contract is up, following his friend to the other team?

 

And then, these players who our GM signed and Bud coached, what's holding them here when

we know the current players want both Bud and Ferry here?

 

I expect some good answers to my questions.  Please!

[Ruckus]

Couple of points I would like to make:

In the United States, no living person can appear on either the money or postage stamps.

Being an old retired rural mail carrier, I am well aware of this.

I feel that statues should regarded the same way. You don't get a statue until you are deceased.

Nique was the face of the unsuccessful Atlanta Hawks for many years. Just as J. Smoove was

the greatness behind "The highlight factory." Maybe he deserves a statue also.

Almost everyone who wants Ferry gone, never to return to Atlanta but fine to go to another team,

feels that we should keep Bud.

What if - - - And I'm not saying it happens, but: Suppose another team hires Ferry. He's the one

who brought Bud here. His plan, plus Bud is the reason Korver agreed to stay here. What is to

prevent Bud, as soon as his contract is up, following his friend to the other team?

And then, these players who our GM signed and Bud coached, what's holding them here when

we know the current players want both Bud and Ferry here?

I expect some good answers to my questions. Please!

All good points. I don't think they have thought it through this far. They are still caught up on the fact that someone made a mistake. How dare they make a mistake! One and done. Get Em outta here. No mistakes allowed.

[Gray Mule]

Here's a quotation from the Bible from an old Baptist deacon (me) that explains

how I personally feel about this.

 

As Jesus was hanging on the cross, about to breathe his last:

 

Then said Jesus, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Luke 23:34

 

Those that are so perfect in their own eyes that need no forgiveness sure make

it hard on the rest of us mere mortals who daily need forgiveness.  Jesus begged

forgiveness for those who was taking his very life and some can't bring themselves

to forgive one who asks for forgiveness for reading words from another's report.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Gray Mule

[NBASupes]

Couple of points I would like to make:

 

In the United States, no living person can appear on either the money or postage stamps.

Being an old retired rural mail carrier, I am well aware of this.

I feel that statues should regarded the same way.  You don't get a statue until you are deceased.

Nique was the face of the unsuccessful Atlanta Hawks for many years.  Just as J. Smoove was

the greatness behind "The highlight factory."  Maybe he deserves a statue also.

 

Almost everyone who wants Ferry gone, never to return to Atlanta but fine to go to another team,

feels that we should keep Bud.

 

What if - - - And I'm not saying it happens, but:  Suppose another team hires Ferry.  He's the one

who brought Bud here.  His plan, plus Bud is the reason Korver agreed to stay here.  What is to

prevent Bud, as soon as his contract is up, following his friend to the other team?

 

And then, these players who our GM signed and Bud coached, what's holding them here when

we know the current players want both Bud and Ferry here?

 

I expect some good answers to my questions.  Please!

Bud is the GM right now like Pop and Wilcox is close to Bud. End of story.