It's time to pull a Portland and let Al Horford walk

[Lurker]

This team sucks and got lucky last season, 2013 Braves=2015 Hawks and 2014 Braves=2016 Hawks. They will never EVER be back at that point with Horford as a cornerstone piece. They need to realize it and blow things up completely.

 

It's time to let go. Let Horford go and trade everyone else. Take the next couple seasons off.

[Lurker]

If Millsap is out for a while. It's going to show that Horford is so damn overrated it's comical. I hope he is out for a while, if he is we're going to find the Hawks lose the rest of their games before the all star break, bookmark it.

[Diesel]

13 hours ago, Lurker said:

This team sucks and got lucky last season, 2013 Braves=2015 Hawks and 2014 Braves=2016 Hawks. They will never EVER be back at that point with Horford as a cornerstone piece. They need to realize it and blow things up completely.

 

It's time to let go. Let Horford go and trade everyone else. Take the next couple seasons off.

Trading Al Horford doesn't mean that you have to get rid of everybody else.   Perish the thought.   What you have to do is assess everybody.

Teague/Schro/Korver/Thabo/Baze/Millsap/Scott are all still good player who fit the role that we need for them to fit.  We just need a C who can do what we need done.  Maybe Horf is applying for PF somewhere else?  He's showing that he can hit the three.  However, what we need is a utility C, somebody who can rebound and defend and bring some offense.  I don't know what I wouldn't give for Drummond.  I would even take Monroe...Wish it was possible Lord knows Cousins is a pipe dream..  However, where we are, we should have realistic targets.

I suspect that the firesale will begin... I suspect there's a team looking for a new start this offseason.

Horford, Splitter, and our first for Brook Lopez and a 2nd.

or

Horford/First to Orlando for Vucevic.

 

The second trade is this... It makes Orlando profitable enough to go after Whitesides in the offseason and propose a team that has:

Whitesides/Horford/Harris/Oladipo/Payton.

 

The first trade is a little more difficult.  It gives Brooklyn a chance to rebuild with money.  The get out of Joe and Horf's contract.  Being that they don't have any first round picks to rebuild with, they rebuild through FAcy.  They have enough money to pay max to most young talent while being able to mix them with their Eurotalent.

 

 

[hylndr11]

I like that orlando trade Hes playing better than Horf so is Brook, his best year I think. 

[gopack10]

Hawks Hoop had a piece a month or so ago about what Orlando might want in a deal if the Hawks decided to tear it all up.

http://hawkshoop.com/what-a-tear-down-and-rebuild-might-look-like/

I believe it was Millsap for Tobias Harris and Oladipo, not sure if a pick was included or not.

[RWF]

Millsap for Tobias Harris and Oladipo? Yes please!

[hylndr11]

thoughts of tiago and edy ...............sheeeesh

Edited January 29, 2016 by hylndr11

[BigDog90]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

Trading Al Horford doesn't mean that you have to get rid of everybody else.   Perish the thought.   What you have to do is assess everybody.

Teague/Schro/Korver/Thabo/Baze/Millsap/Scott are all still good player who fit the role that we need for them to fit.  We just need a C who can do what we need done.  Maybe Horf is applying for PF somewhere else?  He's showing that he can hit the three.  However, what we need is a utility C, somebody who can rebound and defend and bring some offense.  I don't know what I wouldn't give for Drummond.  I would even take Monroe...Wish it was possible Lord knows Cousins is a pipe dream..  However, where we are, we should have realistic targets.

I suspect that the firesale will begin... I suspect there's a team looking for a new start this offseason.

Horford, Splitter, and our first for Brook Lopez and a 2nd.

or

Horford/First to Orlando for Vucevic.

 

The second trade is this... It makes Orlando profitable enough to go after Whitesides in the offseason and propose a team that has:

Whitesides/Horford/Harris/Oladipo/Payton.

 

The first trade is a little more difficult.  It gives Brooklyn a chance to rebuild with money.  The get out of Joe and Horf's contract.  Being that they don't have any first round picks to rebuild with, they rebuild through FAcy.  They have enough money to pay max to most young talent while being able to mix them with their Eurotalent.

 

 

Al is a 3 time All-Star. He should get a better return from Brooklyn/Orlando.

[pimp]

59 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

Al is a 3 time All-Star. He should get a better return from Brooklyn/Orlando.

you wont get anything great for Horford , He is a unrestricted free agent at the end of the season, 
Brooklyn/Orlando would be just renting Al for 3 months , then he could just leave, and they wouldn't have anything to show for it.

[JTB]

One team that I believe would take a risk on horford is the clippers.

TRADE: Horford + Filer(s)  for Blake Griffin

I may be over my head a little on this one but word is that the times Blake has been out the team has actually performed better. It happened last season when CP3 and Jordan both got going 2nd half of the year and now this season its happening again. Clearly they are better without Blake and you would think they would lose some scoring without him but they are actually scoring the same but a lot more efficient with better defense. But the biggest issue with Blake is how he "stops" the ball movement according to the media and if this actually holds any water he may be on trade block.

 

Horford on Clippers:

Would provide them a big man that would fit in with their ball movement much like he does in buds offense and he wouldn't stop the ball to iso like Griffin has been known to do according to the media out there as I have mentioned before. But the biggest thing is the combination of Horford and Deandre that I believe will be appealing to Doc. Those two together will mesh well and Horford will likely get back to being strictly a pick and pop PF something that he's better at than Blake. Plus Al just brings a good overall all around game to this team and with it being the clippers and Doc Rivers Im very sure that they can retain horford....Money is no issue to Steve Balmer lets be real! 

Oh and Horfords rebounding isn't going to be an issue with Deandre grabbing most rebounds. Im sure Horford could avg 7.5 to 8.3 boards and it be enough for the clippers unlike it is for our Hawks.

 

Blake on Hawks:

We get our Star player finally. Blake would put asses in the seats and bring the crowd to their feet with his thunderous slam dunk jams. Blake has also improved in all phases of his game but particularly his iso ability and offensive post game. He will get his rebounds no problem cause he's an athletic freak. His defense has taken a step forward the last two years and Im sure he can continue to get better in this area, The problem and only risk comes to how many years left on his contract and if he can make some minor tweaks to fit Bud's system. 

Again the media is out there saying that Blake stops the ball movement when he's playing and without him they are moving the ball and scoring way more efficiently. I say this...maybe its true, maybe Blake does stop the ball but I believe our superstar head coach Bud can help change that Blakes offensive game. I understand that Doc is known to be a great coach now but his offensive mind nor is his player development better than Bud and his staff's. 

Last I know to get Blake we would have to give up a good amount but bringing him in to start building around him with Dennis and Bazemore is a good start! And Im not worried about the hand issue, a broken hand will heal (He may not play right away but at the least the future is brighter by a mile). Not worried about the off court issues cause he rarely has them...everyone makes mistakes.

 

 

Trade Machine:

 

 

Well that filer looks like its either going to HAVE be Jeff or Korver to make this work. Most here are going to complain like crazy if we were to give Korver to a clippers team that already has JJ Reddick and I understand so how about this trade.....

 

 

You got to give up something to get something that could be great and Blake still has a chance of being great. Give the clippers teague so he can run their bench unit, he will be better at that than Austin Rivers. Horford like I mentioned above is inserted into the starting lineup and despite what the trade machine says the clippers just got a hell of a lot better because we have given them 2 potential ALL STAR players. How does this help us? We can officially start over and ACTUALLY build around a Superstar player! Give bud a chance to build around a legit Superstar player for once during his time here. You have to take risk.

The starting lineup wouldn't be very appealing as most of you would hate that again we have two all star PF's but one is a legit Superstar player now.

Pg: Dennis (Shows us that all star potential many hawk fans including myself believe you have along with a higher ceiling than Jeff)

Sg: Bazemore (Perfect role player that keeps getting better and is definitely a 3 & D player at the 2)

Sf: Thabo or Wesley Johnson (This may be temporary but I like Johnson and he also is a 3 & D player, just not so sure he's starter material)

Pf: Sap (All star player that leaves his heart on the court every game)

C: Blake Griffin (No he's not truly a center though he stands at 6'10 251lbs but he is a star player and we've needed one for years now....Sap can always be traded if this tandem can't work together...but Blake may be better along with someone that won't clog the paint like Jordan ya never know)

 

Bench:

Pg: Prigoni or Mack or Patterson (I honestly think Patterson should get a legit shot to be Dennis main backup)

Sg: Korver with Hardaway as an option

Sf: Thabo or Wesley Johnson more than likely it will go back and forth

Pf: Mike Scott along with Moose

C: Tiago along with Edy (who I hope improves quickly to get more time on the court)

 

So you may have your complaints people but here's the thing Blake is superstar player in this league to the fans and the media and is respected by the refs. He alone will bring a lot of prestige to this Hawks franchise. In 2014 he finished 3rd in MVP voting and as far as recruiting goes the hawks will be a lot more appealing to all players including other star players when they think about the opportunity to play with Griffin.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/clippers/post/_/id/6556/griffin-honored-to-finish-third-in-mvp-voting

 

Is this going to happen? No but I enjoyed writing that one up. I feel I made some valid points on why you sometimes have to go all in for a "star player" in the beginning. 

[BigDog90]

@pimp If I was ATL, if I couldn't get a legit deal, I'd hold on to him. It'd be better try to win it all now then be locked down with an injury prone Brook Lopez. Vucevic wouldn't be bad but I don't think he'd be the difference maker in making the Hawks better than CLE.

[JTB]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14669764/blake-griffin-tenure-los-angeles-become-questions-hour

"He can facilitate from the high post, pull opposing big men away from the rim, drive to the basket and run the break in transition. That is all very exciting. But what kind of frontcourt player do you need alongside him? If it's Kelly Olynykor Paul Millsap, your offense is going to be dynamite, but opponents will feast at the basket. If it's a shot-blocking center who lives near the rim, you'll run into the same spacing problems the Clippers get around -- only you probably don't have anyone as good as Paul or Jordan, or a shooter lighting it up like Redick.

Some teams imagine Griffin as a small-ball center, a post-heavy version of Draymond Green, and Griffin would kill it on offense playing Green's role in Golden State. But then you remember defense. Griffin is fast and alert, fine switching onto smaller players, but he's not in Green's league. Opponents are shooting 56 percent at the rim when Griffin is around, per SportVU data, a hideous number. Griffin is taller than Green, but his wingspan is two inches shorter, and he doesn't have the kind of bottom-heavy gravity center that helps Green dislodge heavier post scorers. The basketball gods genetically engineered Green as a one-of-a-kind positionless monster."

 

 

Wow just wrote all that and I find this....What do you all think ? Bud gets his warriors like front court with Blake as a post heavy version of Draymond Green teaming up with a Millsap? Pull Tiago off the bench when needed to start against bigger centers like they do Bogut and we hope for the best! Only problem is we will need Blakes Defense to take massive strides to get better to a level where we won't be getting killed at the rim but atleast we know for sure with Blake and Sap on the other end can assure more scoring. I would do it...I like the risk! Im actually in love with the idea! Blake is 26 he can improve his defense there is still plenty of time for him....oh and how much better would sap be with the scoring pressure taken off of him?!....Wish I was Bud I would make a phone call to Doc and explain how a trade of Jeff/Horford for Blake/Wesley Johnson is extremely suitable for both teams and I would throw in Prigioni  just to add a Point Guard vet for our young guys. We wouldn't be good right away but give it some time and we would be awesome.......PIPE DREAMING is BAD DONT DO IT

Edited January 30, 2016 by JTB

[gopack10]

16 hours ago, BigDog90 said:

Al is a 3 time All-Star. He should get a better return from Brooklyn/Orlando.

As I've said numerous times, the trade value of Horford is utterly ridiculous to some people on this board.

As a soon to be free agent, looking for a max deal, with declining numbers, he isn't going to pull in the haul that most people think he will.

[nathan2331]

To be honest, that Griffin trade doesn't sound too bad right now. I'm not confident Horford will raise his level of play after this season. If the Clippers were serious about trading Blake, that'd be a good return for him. I hate his persona, but the guy puts up numbers and has a good contract relative to the numbers being thrown around. Only problem is he's a poor defender and with his wingspan I don't think he could ever be a good one- especially with a move to center.

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[BigDog90]

@gopack10 I understand both sides but it's not like the offense is being ran through Al and he's showing a decline like being a step slower guarding centers, basically being a liability on the court like how Kobe is now.

 

[JTB]

3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

To be honest, that Griffin trade doesn't sound too bad right now. I'm not confident Horford will raise his level of play after this season. If the Clippers were serious about trading Blake, that'd be a good return for him. I hate his persona, but the guy puts up numbers and has a good contract relative to the numbers being thrown around. Only problem is he's a poor defender and with his wingspan I don't think he could ever be a good one- especially with a move to center.

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I mean we wouldn't have to keep him at center...just the first year which would be the remaining of this season. With Griffins star name out there Im sure future unrestricted BIG men would want to come and play beside him. I think the risk is a good one because Bud could possibly take this team from good to great building around a true star player like Griffin.

I know his defense sucks but I believe thats just how stars are these days. There aren't many two way players in this league at the superstar level, so surrounding that superstar with defense would be a priority. We already have some pretty good defenders as it is, just need the good defensive center and another wing player. Dennis and Baze can be a great defensive back court in the future with all of that energy they put on the court. Just my opinion...Griffin coming here is a long shot of course but its nice to hope.

[nathan2331]

3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

To be honest, that Griffin trade doesn't sound too bad right now. I'm not confident Horford will raise his level of play after this season. If the Clippers were serious about trading Blake, that'd be a good return for him. I hate his persona, but the guy puts up numbers and has a good contract relative to the numbers being thrown around. Only problem is he's a poor defender and with his wingspan I don't think he could ever be a good one- especially with a move to center.

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I mean we wouldn't have to keep him at center...just the first year which would be the remaining of this season. With Griffins star name out there Im sure future unrestricted BIG men would want to come and play beside him. I think the risk is a good one because Bud could possibly take this team from good to great building around a true star player like Griffin.

I know his defense sucks but I believe thats just how stars are these days. There aren't many two way players in this league at the superstar level, so surrounding that superstar with defense would be a priority. We already have some pretty good defenders as it is, just need the good defensive center and another wing player. Dennis and Baze can be a great defensive back court in the future with all of that energy they put on the court. Just my opinion...Griffin coming here is a long shot of course but its nice to hope.

Well Millsap is still on the team so unless we trade him or have him play minutes at SF, Griffin will have to play minutes at C.

With the money we could potentially have to spend this offseason I'd like to see us do something aggressive. If the cap is going up plenty of teams are going to have money to throw around. I don't want to be the team that gives Horford a max deal.

[JTB]

27 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Well Millsap is still on the team so unless we trade him or have him play minutes at SF, Griffin will have to play minutes at C.

With the money we could potentially have to spend this offseason I'd like to see us do something aggressive. If the cap is going up plenty of teams are going to have money to throw around. I don't want to be the team that gives Horford a max deal.

Well thats why I brought it up to take on broken hand Blake Griffins contract and get him to this team. I really do believe that one star name player will get the hawks organization getting plenty of talent to the team. Play Griffin at center to finish out the season whenever he returns and try to build around him as quickly as possible. 

[Duff_Man]

On 1/29/2016 at 9:24 PM, Lurker said:

If Millsap is out for a while. It's going to show that Horford is so damn overrated it's comical. I hope he is out for a while, if he is we're going to find the Hawks lose the rest of their games before the all star break, bookmark it.

I'm willing to bet you listen to sports talk radio and enjoy a meal at Olive Garden.

[Hawkmoor]

15 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

To be honest, that Griffin trade doesn't sound too bad right now. I'm not confident Horford will raise his level of play after this season. If the Clippers were serious about trading Blake, that'd be a good return for him. I hate his persona, but the guy puts up numbers and has a good contract relative to the numbers being thrown around. Only problem is he's a poor defender and with his wingspan I don't think he could ever be a good one- especially with a move to center.

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Griffin???? MR. SOFT HIMSELF?? You wanna replace one sponge with a super sponge?? In the HISTORY of the NBA, ive NEVER seen a big get punished the way Griffin does and he will not retaliate.  He will slap a equipment manager though, but on the court, he gets punished and ive never seen him fight back.