With Whiz, Jeff! Ask for One With Whiz!

[Bankingitbig]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

That's the 64 dollar question.  If Splitter is 100% coming back... then making this trade is foolish.  Giving up a starter for a bench player... show me championship teams that do that?

If it's Noel and Covengton, I'm not mad.  However, I doubt it's a real rumor.  Moreover, if that's the case, I would like to see us take advantage of the leverage and offer Horf something much less than the max.

Back to the original question. Name a championship level team trading a starter for a bench player?

Last year, there were strong rumors that the Grizz would trade MCJ to NY.  Really?  Anybody they could have gotten would have been a bench plyer.

How about Dwayne Wade leaving Miami in a trade?

How about Butler being traded from the Bulls?

This is all the silliness of a guy coming into his contract year... however, no Chip worthy team is making that trade.

 

C'mon now... Trading 1-year's worth of Teague doesn't even come close to trading someone like Butler or Wade.. We aren't a "Chip worthy" team by keeping our team the same and only adding a draft pick. Why not get return for Teague when we can replace most of his minutes with Schröder? Also, just because Noel would be coming off the bench doesn't mean he won't be playing meaningful minutes. He would play more minutes than Schröder would be playing if we kept Teague due to the being able to rotate with two roster spots vs. just one.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

I vote we ban HF for drunk, insult posting.  Let's also ban ATLSmith for insulting your king01.

Your mom doesn't think I'm drunk right now.

[Wretch]

I can't discount the success of this group two seasons ago, whether people want to attribute it to a fluke or not. However, outside of that window...this group or this style or whatever you call what we're doing has not produced a contender or anything close to it.  I don't know why we are so allergic to change, but it's necessary when you want to do more than just compete.  And let me be clear here...  If we're just trying to maintain consistency and balance while we hold out for a free agent savior, then all the outrage over these rumors, speculation, and suggestion is totally warranted. 

I don't personally believe that you can achieve greatness in the NBA by perpetually sitting still or with safe, lateral, or otherwise incremental change.  You maintain the status quo that way. If you are a contender, then you maintain a potentially winning formula. If you're us...then you basically sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else do it. 

It just amazes me that after almost a decade of this tip-toe approach and actually seeing the guaranteed middling success...we still cling to our security blankets.  Our sacred cows and golden boys.  

Watching contenders build over the years I've seen one constant theme - until the winning formula is found...everything is negotiable.  Having a duplication of talent at PG that is coming up on an expiring is a "no-effing-shit" place to start. Getting back a young, rebounding, shot blocking, agile, developing lottery-pick big man in return is a " shut up and take my money"  scenario.

 We need change and this is far from a bad move.   I like Jeff, but I'd be ecstatic if this goes down.   It's time for change. 

[Sothron]

Can we stop the personal insults before it derails the thread and a mod has to come in and erase a bunch of posts? This stuff never ends well.

[NBASupes]

Rick Kamla and Diesel love for moving Al. Luckily Bud isn't as dense.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

C'mon now... Trading 1-year's worth of Teague doesn't even come close to trading someone like Butler or Wade.. We aren't a "Chip worthy" team by keeping our team the same and only adding a draft pick. Why not get return for Teague when we can replace most of his minutes with Schröder? Also, just because Noel would be coming off the bench doesn't mean he won't be playing meaningful minutes. He would play more minutes than Schröder would be playing if we kept Teague due to the being able to rotate with two roster spots vs. just one.

If we're trying to be a chip team then we have to start to do what chip teams do.   I don't see this as that.   Do you know how many times San Antonio could have traded Parker for Bench material.  I wonder why they didn't do it??

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I can't discount the success of this group two seasons ago, whether people want to attribute it to a fluke or not. However, outside of that window...this group or this style or whatever you call what we're doing has not produced a contender or anything close to it.  I don't know why we are so allergic to change, but it's necessary when you want to do more than just compete.  And let me be clear here...  If we're just trying to maintain consistency and balance while we hold out for a free agent savior, then all the outrage over these rumors, speculation, and suggestion is totally warranted. 

I don't personally believe that you can achieve greatness in the NBA by perpetually sitting still or with safe, lateral, or otherwise incremental change.  You maintain the status quo that way. If you are a contender, then you maintain a potentially winning formula. If you're us...then you basically sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else do it. 

It just amazes me that after almost a decade of this tip-toe approach and actually seeing the guaranteed middling success...we still cling to our security blankets.  Our sacred cows and golden boys.  

Watching contenders build over the years I've seen one constant theme - until the winning formula is found...everything is negotiable.  Having a duplication of talent at PG that is coming up on an expiring is a "no-effing-shit" place to start. Getting back a young, rebounding, shot blocking, agile, developing lottery-pick big man in return is a " shut up and take my money"  scenario.

 We need change and this is far from a bad move.   I like Jeff, but I'd be ecstatic if this goes down.   It's time for change. 

I don't disagree with your points.  And if we get Noel and Covengton for Teague, I'm not mad.  I'm mad if we then turn around and give Horf 120+ million for 5 more years of the same ol weakening shit that he's been giving us.  This is where I would like to see that move.  Use the money that we save on Horf to go after some game changers.  Keep those things that are good and get rid of those things that are weak.  Horf is weak.  He's getting weaker and he's not worth the max or anything close to that.  Let's look at closing the door on Horf, building around the young nucleus of Noel Sap, and Schröder and then bringing in other players that fit our program... I originally said Durant if we can get him.. or Baze/Barnes if we can't.

But just as you said... if we make this move and then handcuff ourselves back to Horf.. .we have not stepped forward at all, we've stepped back.

 

[NBASupes]

Al is worth his cost for all of what he provides. Atlanta knows that.

[Bankingitbig]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

I don't disagree with your points.  And if we get Noel and Covengton for Teague, I'm not mad.  I'm mad if we then turn around and give Horf 120+ million for 5 more years of the same ol weakening shit that he's been giving us.  This is where I would like to see that move.  Use the money that we save on Horf to go after some game changers.  Keep those things that are good and get rid of those things that are weak.  Horf is weak.  He's getting weaker and he's not worth the max or anything close to that.  Let's look at closing the door on Horf, building around the young nucleus of Noel Sap, and Schröder and then bringing in other players that fit our program... I originally said Durant if we can get him.. or Baze/Barnes if we can't.

But just as you said... if we make this move and then handcuff ourselves back to Horf.. .we have not stepped forward at all, we've stepped back.

 

I'm all for getting Durant (not going to happen)... But you would rather give the max to Barnes than Horford? Oh and btw, Barnes' max will count far more against the cap than Al's $18M cap hold. How is Barnes worth a max and not Horford? I do agree that we should try and not give Al a 5-year deal. Should give the 4-year with 7.5% raises.

[macdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If we're trying to be a chip team then we have to start to do what chip teams do.   I don't see this as that.   Do you know how many times San Antonio could have traded Parker for Bench material.  I wonder why they didn't do it??

They traded George Hill who Pop'd loved and was starting calibre for a mid 1st draft pick.   Also this:

Quote

And then there was Tony Parker, on the books for $12.5 million annually through 2014-15.² The Spurs reportedly engaged teams much higher in the draft about Parker, attaching Jefferson’s contract as the poison price of obtaining one of the league’s very best point guards. They didn’t shop Parker, but they at least entertained the idea of going forward with Hill as the team’s starting point guard. “We didn’t make calls on Tony,” Buford says. “We accepted calls from teams who had interest in Tony.”

So they would have traded Parker for a draft pick basically for 2 reasons:  to save money, and because they had another PG they thought would fill the role nicely.

[NBASupes]

Horford is mandatory to resign unless we are signing Durant. Other then that, Horford is mandatory. 

[Lurker]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

no Chip worthy team is making that trade.

And this is where you REALLY show your delusion. This team isn't on the same planet as "chip worthy teams", they aren't even close! They are five levels down from chip worthy teams.

[Bankingitbig]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If we're trying to be a chip team then we have to start to do what chip teams do.   I don't see this as that.   Do you know how many times San Antonio could have traded Parker for Bench material.  I wonder why they didn't do it??

Because Parker was a Finals MVP,  SIX time all-star, a 3x all-NBA 2nd team and 1x all-NBA 3rd team. All things Teague isn't/wasn't....

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Al is worth his cost for all of what he provides. Atlanta knows that.

Supes... this is not an attack.  But I can't for the life of me understand why you are such a big Horf Fan.   Honestly.   IF we trade for Noel, we can prolly go out and get Ryan Anderson for half the price of Horf and get the same production.

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And this is where you REALLY show your delusion. This team isn't on the same planet as "chip worthy teams", they aren't even close! They are five levels down from chip worthy teams.

Last year, we were one of the last 4 teams still playing.  For the last 4 years, we were one of the last 8 teams still playing.  I admit that we haven't been to the championship game, however, we're not the Milwaukee Bucks either.    Yet... if we watch your knee Jerking ways, we would think that we were the Nets or the Bucks or the Knicks or something.   Who is really delusional?

 

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Bankingitbig said:

All things Teague isn't/wasn't....

But wait, wait! Teague is a borderline superstar that is being held back by Budenholzer! If Budenholzer let him go and granted him a TON of confidence, he'd put up star like numbers like Lowry and Lillard!

 

 

 

 

 

LMFAO

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

Your mom doesn't think I'm drunk right now.

I must begrudgingly agree with Grampa @Sothron.  Thusly, I will abstain from tearing you a new one.  Consider yourself lucky, sir.

@Wretch makes his return with a potent assessment of the state of thangs for the Hawks.  It probably feels comfortable to just stay the course and there's some merit to doing just that.  We could make the playoffs if we 'effectively' stand pat.  However, in all honesty, that says more about the state of the East than it does about the idea that our 'core' is worth keeping around.  It's time for change as uncomfortable as that may be.  Budz has to have confidence in himself that he can take a "new" group and make hay.

@NBASupes you have an unnatural affinity for Horford.  I certainly recognize his value and I think he'll be back.  However, there are avenues by which we can be successful on a go-forward basis if Al's not back.  I mean, it is possible.

[Lurker]

Just now, Diesel said:

Last year, we were one of the last 4 teams still playing.  For the last 4 years, we were one of the last 8 teams still playing.  I admit that we haven't been to the championship game, however, we're not the Milwaukee Bucks either.    Yet... if we watch your knee Jerking ways, we would think that we were the Nets or the Bucks or the Knicks or something.   Who is really delusional?

 

Last year is last year! Just like the 2013 Braves, that was a total fluke that is never happening again!

[ATLSmith]

35 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

I vote we ban HF for drunk, insult posting.  Let's also ban ATLSmith for insulting your king01.

@kg01, "Hey bro!  Stay away from my mom."

Edited June 3, 2016 by ATLSmith

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Supes... this is not an attack.  But I can't for the life of me understand why you are such a big Horf Fan.   Honestly.   IF we trade for Noel, we can prolly go out and get Ryan Anderson for half the price of Horf and get the same production.

 

So you think Joe was a star because he made the Allstar team and you equate Horford to Ryan Anderson?     Notice how teams are desperate to hang onto Ryan Anderson.