Reminiscing About The Egg Hawks Laid Against Wizards

[sturt]

3 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

I think it's already been established that trading Sap wasn't part of the plan either - keeping all three of them was the plan.

"Established" seems a strong term. I wouldn't rule it out necessarily, but I'm not at first sure why it would be so certain in your mind. So, just curious.... what do you think prompted the reported trading frenzy surrounding Sap for the hours leading up to Horf's decision then?

 

[Thomas]

Either way it's water under the bridge and we have front court guys that will dislocate their own shoulders as well as the opponents to get a rebound that can decide a game late, especially in the playoffs. We really do have one off the bench as well. As seen up to now how physical we weren't, but now moving forward we will see how truly physical we are.  

[RandomFan]

24 minutes ago, sturt said:

"Established" seems a strong term. I wouldn't rule it out necessarily, but I'm not at first sure why it would be so certain in your mind. So, just curious.... what do you think prompted the reported trading frenzy surrounding Sap for the hours leading up to Horf's decision then?

 

My guess is it was more likely teams were calling us and offering us packages for Millsap, and we did our due dilligence by listening. There is nothing wrong with that, and you are smart to at least listen in case a team blows you away with a stupid offer. But that is completely different from actively shopping a player. I mean, all it takes is for one erroneous report to come out that the Hawks are shopping Millsap, whether it's true or not, to have every interested team give the Hawks a call and make an offer.

And since our side doesn't leak information, ever, then all the leaks were on the other end and/or agents that all have their own agendas for leaking what might not even be correct info, or directly misleading info.

Koonin has flat out said they intended to keep all three of them. We have a history of ZERO leaks. We don't have a history of lying about things like this. It's mostly circumstantial evidence, but to me it adds up to Koonin is likely telling the truth, and probably deserves the benefit of the doubt in this situation with all things considered.

Edited July 16, 2016 by RandomFan

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

My guess is it was more likely teams were calling us and offering us packages for Millsap, and we did our due dilligence by listening. There is nothing wrong with that, and you are smart to at least listen in case a team blows you away with a stupid offer. But that is completely different from actively shopping a player.

And since our side doesn't leak information, ever, then all the leaks were on the other end and/or agents that all have their own agendas for leaking what might not even be correct info, or directly misleading info.

Koonin has flat out said they intended to keep all three of them. We have a history of ZERO leaks. We don't have a history of lying about things like this. It's mostly circumstantial evidence, but to me it adds up to Koonin is likely telling the truth, and probably deserves the benefit of the doubt in this situation with all things considered.

Thats why sports media really goes reaching when dealing with the Hawks because there is no information leaked/available for them to use or abuse. Sap is a good point in case. 

[Guest]

What? You need to get more than your eyes checked.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What? You need to get more than your eyes checked.

Was this shit meant for me on the other thread professor?

[RandomFan]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What? You need to get more than your eyes checked.

 

I feel like JayBird's message was intended to be longer. Or possibly a quote is missing?

[sturt]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'll stick with Woj. He's been incredibly consistently correct, and at times when others' reporting was off the mark. Love Koonin, but there's natural reason for Koonin to color it as you've described, and I find the assertion that other teams or agents would be trying to mislead to be difficult to understand--not sure why they'd care since there's nothing really to be gained for any of them in the process (... or am I missing something?).

Having said that, to my mind, they probably did want to keep all 3 if they could. Then, something happened.

One possibility is that the cost to retain Horf got higher than they'd hoped, and there was a recognition that this time next year they'd be in too uncomfortable a position budget-wise.

Another possibility is that Horf wasn't okay with how the playing time might shake out with three former all-stars occupying two positions.

But then, a possibility too is that Woj wasn't precise with his words... "shopping Horford" may be another way of saying "listening to offers." So, yeah, in that case, both Woj and Koonin would be in the same ballpark, describing the same event with different terms.

 

[RandomFan]

35 minutes ago, sturt said:

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'll stick with Woj. He's been incredibly consistently correct, and at times when others' reporting was off the mark.

Don't take this the wrong way Sturt as I think you're generally a good poster. That being said...LOL, really? Incredibly consistent? Did you already forget this happened?

And then, exactly FOUR freaking minutes later ---

He was also saying we didn't offer him a 5th year initially, and then later had another tweet saying we had offered the 5th year all along, the negotiation was over money, not the 5th year. So no, I'm sorry, but WOJ's accuracy regarding the Hawks is definitely nothing to write home about.

There was also this tweet that would seem to strengthen my hypothesis more than yours.

 

His "sources" are explicitly identified as "several [other] teams" that tell him they have been talking to the Hawks. Sounds to me like other teams calling the Hawks. Koonin himself said all of the shopping of Millsap was false rumors. You can call me naive if you want, but I think I would rather trust our team's president over unindentified "sources" any day of the week.

Regardless, whether we concede this point or not, it should be equally obvious that it is wrong to suggest as you did that trading Millsap was "part of the plan" due to that being a very unsettled topic.

Edited July 16, 2016 by RandomFan

[sturt]

Have to disagree.

1. Where's your evidence that they weren't "losing hope?" I have to think the fact that ATL was giving him more money, albeit over 5 years, would, indeed, naturally lead to some discouragement. I think you might assume too much, my friend.

 

12 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

He was also saying we didn't offer him a 5th year initially, and then later had another tweet saying we had offered the 5th year all along, the negotiation was over money, not the 5th year.

2. I read others saying that we didn't offer the 5th year. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw Woj report that.

3. I've acknowledged that there's room for Woj and Koonin to be giving two perspectives of the same event--ie, that Woj did not necessarily mean to convey that we were initiating those calls.

4. I don't tend to call anyone "naive" as a matter of insult, but will only say that... for myself... I personally find it a whole lot more likely that Woj would approach the topic objectively than Koonin since the latter does have some obvious motive to skew the picture to advance a desired narrative.

5. I repeat, there is room for both to be correct, though maybe not both to be precise.

6. "Wrong?" If I'm a reporter, I'd see that. But from my perspective, you, me and everyone else gets some latitude as common Joe and Jane fans to say what we say about something like this--no one is being accused of a vice unit crime. The way I've taken it, something happened that opened the door to something more than merely fielding calls with proposed trades... clearly (maybe only to me), on our end, we left other teams with the impression we were prepared to make a deal once Horf said "yes" to the contract on the table, and that there had been a back-and-forth, not a one-sided discussion, with at least one team and probably several.

So, yes, I could be wrong... but in an accuracy kind of way, not in any moralistic way.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

Was this shit meant for me on the other thread professor?

Ok either this was a brilliant/sarcastic move by you or I'll schedule optometrist for 2. Lol

[RedDawg#8]

Back to the original post topic....

When I reminisce about the egg we laid against Washington, I think less about the lost opportunity to win the division (which would have been the first back to back division titles in God knows how long) and more about the fact that we played ourselves in to the 4th seed. Win that game, clinch the 3 seed and we not only are back to back division champs but we have a very realistic shot at back to back ECF's appearances.  Think about that!!! The Atlanta Hawks in doing twice in 2 years what they couldn't do in 50 years. We would have firmly established ourselves as the best Non-Lebron team in the East. Our profile is growing now but imagine the energy and buzz that could have given us. That to me was the biggest disappointment, We had a chance to avoid CLE until the 3rd round and the only thing standing in the way was freaking sorry Washington, and we blew it.  Sure we would have had to get past Toronto but that's a much better series than 0-4 against the Cavs for the 2nd year in a row

[Diesel]

Point 1:

We played ourselves out of  the divisional championship with that loss.  I don't think we deemed it as less important but the effects were what they were.  I don't subscribe to the notion that if you're not first, then you are last... I know that there are some who have those beliefs.. I will just say that there was a lot of things working against us when we put ourselves in the position to play Cleveland.

Point 2:

Teague and Horf had seen their last days here.   Teague's bum ankle was becoming old.  However, he wasn't the biggest problem.  As I look back on the season, I can't help but believe that Horford wasn't going all out for the Hawks. I just get the notion that he wanted to make it to his payday and that was all.   If you recall, the last time he tore his pec, he was playing against Roy Hibbert and Roy outmuscled him for a rebound.  I get the feeling that you haven't seen the Horf that is willing to get in there and fight for rebounds because he's punked out.   Honestly, he's married now, he's a father now... he has too much on the line to be that guy who gets after it every play.   I wish him well in Boston. 

Point 3:

I believe that as we move forward, we have gotten better by virtue of getting guys who really want to win.   I would still love to have DMC because he is the only player in the league with more heart than the guys that we have.. but when you think about Baze, Paul, Korver, and Dennis, you're talking about an all heart team.  This season, we won't lack motivation.   

 

[pimp]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

  If you recall, the last time he tore his pec, he was playing against Roy Hibbert and Roy outmuscled him for a rebound.  I get the feeling that you haven't seen the Horf that is willing to get in there and fight for rebounds

 

Actually the last time it happened was against the Cavs, and it looked like Varejao barely touched him.  It looked like just a freak accident.

The one  with Hibbert was the first time , in 2012 and   it happened after Hibbert blocked Al's shot twice.
It seems it doesn't take a lot of contact to tear a pec.
 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

 

Point 2:

Teague and Horf had seen their last days here.   Teague's bum ankle was becoming old.  However, he wasn't the biggest problem.  As I look back on the season, I can't help but believe that Horford wasn't going all out for the Hawks. I just get the notion that he wanted to make it to his payday and that was all.   If you recall, the last time he tore his pec, he was playing against Roy Hibbert and Roy outmuscled him for a rebound.  I get the feeling that you haven't seen the Horf that is willing to get in there and fight for rebounds because he's punked out.   Honestly, he's married now, he's a father now... he has too much on the line to be that guy who gets after it every play.   I wish him well in 

 

I think you'll see a resurgence of the hustling version of Alicia next season.  Atleast for the early part of the year.  It'll be clear confirmation of the 2-year tankjob he played on us.

[QuantumHawkz]

DS17 WILL be better than Teague. For one he's not a passive player. Honestly, he single handedly brought the Hawks back in one of the Cleveland playoff games. If he had more help, that would have been a win. D8 is also an improvement over Babycakes. I mean, everytime Thompson was in the game he would just make Babycakes his whippin boy. I don't see that happening with Howard.

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, QuantumHawkz said:

DS17 WILL be better than Teague. For one he's not a passive player. Honestly, he single handedly brought the Hawks back in one of the Cleveland playoff games. If he had more help, that would have been a win. D8 is also an improvement over Babycakes. I mean, everytime Thompson was in the game he would just make Babycakes his whippin boy. I don't see that happening with Howard.

maybe but he has to improve his shooting and decision making.