How can we realistically get better?

[Wurider05]

 Realistically what can we do with just six players under contract (Dennis, Prince, Bembry, Howard, Bazemore, Delaney) to get better. We definitely need some 3 point shooters.  Here is the list of free agents. WHo can help us?

http://hoopshype.com/2017/04/26/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

 

Can our young  players (Dennis, Bembry, Prince) continue to excel in our player development system and what could they do with helping  Howard improve? Then there is the question of the draft.

[h4wkfan]

Bring back shelvin mack please. And zaza. 

 

I'd like to do anything possible to unload baze. Team automatically gets better. 

[JTB]

I will be completely honest. If any suggestions come up about trading Howard you mine as well ignore it. Trading Howard will be the toughest objective in the off season to such a degree it won't happen and will be wasted time. So to those who say "trade Dwight" the OP asked for realistic suggestions. Like it or not bud and staff knew Howard was going to be apart of this team for 3 years when they signed him last off season. No team will take on Howard's contract unless its expiring so maybe next summer (big maybe)!

my realistic suggestion/views:

with that said above I don't want to trade Howard, I'd like for him to become a situational Big for our group like he should have been this season. But to do that we really need another all star that can play PF or C with Sap as a small ball dou. Last Unlike others I think trading bazemore is realistic and easy to do...the problem is actually getting talent back in Atlanta and that's where the hesitation is. We can trade Baze don't care what anyone thinks I know we can but for a franchise like Atlanta it's highly possible we end up with a worse player.

target players for me:

melo, Blake griffin, (draft Bam)....Blake is the only one that I can say is probably a "wishful scenario" in other words likely won't happen.

Edited April 30, 2017 by JTB

[AUhawksfan]

Yeah realistically I don't think we can get rid of Baze or Howard's contracts unless we take on something crappy in return.  Even though overpaid, they both can play 20 minutes or so off the bench in certain situations.

First thing we need is shooting.  Then we also need another center who can run the floor and play 20+ minutes themself.  A guy like Plumlee or Dedmon would be nice if possible.

I don't see any big impact free agent guys coming here.  This may not be an exciting offseason unless we have a big trade up our sleeve.

 

[Alex]

I am going to operate under the assumption that both Bazemore and Howard will be here because frankly they will be.

A few names stood out to me on that list that I don't think is updated.  Ian Clark will get paid from some team.  Why can't it be us?  Hard to say if he's a good player or just an average player on a great team.  My guess is he's somewhere in between.  Wayne Selden is an interesting option as well.  Really came on late in the s season for Memphis.  I wouldn't think he gets a ton of money thrown at him.  I still want Gallinari, but he's going to get a fat contract and with money tied up in bad contracts already the Hawks will be hard pressed to land a major impact free agent.  Which also leads me to another free agent I'd explore...Nikola Mirotic.  Again will get a hefty deal most likely, but would love him down in Atlanta.  KCP is another target, but he's too erratic and hasn't turned the corner.  Similar to a current and hopefully former Hawks player.  I think James Johnson could be a good replacement for Millsap as far as toughness and workman's type attitude.  Had a very good season for Miami, but likely played himself out of the Hawks meager budget.

[JTB]

7 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

Yeah realistically I don't think we can get rid of Baze or Howard's contracts unless we take on something crappy in return.  Even though overpaid, they both can play 20 minutes or so off the bench in certain situations.

First thing we need is shooting.  Then we also need another center who can run the floor and play 20+ minutes themself.  A guy like Plumlee or Dedmon would be nice if possible.

I don't see any big impact free agent guys coming here.  This may not be an exciting offseason unless we have a big trade up our sleeve.

 

Well for Baze it depends in my opinion on where he goes. I think the Hawks can pull a Baze plus draft pick for melo who's a 36 year old vet. 

The question is, is that the player budcox want to spend their time going after. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by JTB

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Option 1:  30 Mill-sap

He had one of the best playoff performances I've seen from a Hawk in a while.  While I hesitate giving him the Max for 5 years, I wouldn't be all up in arms if they did.  Guys like him age slowly on the court, because his game isn't based on athleticism ( think Joe Johnson, Zack Randolph, Paul Pierce, etc ) and he'll be at least a high quality #2 or #3 guy on the last year of that contract.  He may even be the 6th man in year 5, that could provide timely offense in 25 min/gm, and be out on the floor at the close of games.   Next year though may be his best season yet.  He has at least 2 - 3 more high quality seasons in him.  And that's what you're ultimately paying for.

 

Option 2:  If you can win a title, ENTERTAIN

I think the Blake Griffin era is done in Los Angeles.  Of course, the Clippers may look to bring him back, from a ticket selling standpoint, but they've won about the same as the Joe Johnson era teams, come playoff time.  And they only got 6 years together before they broke that core up.   For the Hawks though, a Blake Griffin signing immediately pays dividends at the box office, as people will come out to see Blake.  His issue is health, as he's missed a whopping 83 regular season games in the past 3 years.  So is he even durable enough to be paid like a top 10 player?

 

Option 3:  The NEW Korver

JJ Redick will probably resign with the Clippers, seeing that they can offer him the most money.  If the Hawks decide that Hardaway Jr isn't worth something like a 3 yr - 45 million deal, maybe a sharpshooter like JJ Redick is, especially in Bud's offense.  And maybe JJ wants to finish his career with a team closer to home ( Cookeville, TN ).  JJ would fit in well with the Hawks, as a sharpshooter at the 2, or a main gun off the bench.

 

Option 4:  Get the "point"?

The lack of a quality backup PG really killed the Hawks this season.  And with the love of "small ball" in today's NBA, teams are routinely throwing out 3 guard combinations, sometimes with 2 PGs on the floor at the same time.  So maybe the Hawks opt to spend 10 - 18 mill a year on a good outside shooting PG who can function as a combo guard.  Darren Collison, Patty Mills and yes . . JEFF TEAGUE . . comes to mind.  Of course, the small guards are defensive liabilities, but they can be offensive strengths.

 

Option 5:  Olemrac Ynohtna

In the event that the Hawks bring back Millsap, they still need to add another scorer to the team.  Preferably a guy who can get his own shot at any time and be a deadly spot up shooter from 3.  That guy is STILL Carmelo Anthony, no matter how much fans hate him.  Maybe the Hawks could dangle Dwight Howard in front of the Knicks, to keep Porzingis out of the 5 spot ( even though that's probably what Krispy Kreme should be playing, but he's not tough enough ).  And since Melo "loves them strippers", what better place to come, than the ATL.  He's basically been evicted from NYC anyway.

[Plainview1981]

Next year is pointless unless Dwight and Bazemore are gone. You're not winning anything with them at this stage. It isn't going to happen.

[Jody23]

Nobody is winning anything in the east as long as Lebron still reigns.  The Hawks need to focus on helping Schröder, Prince and Bembry get better for the next few seasons while figuring out how they can add other long term talent so they can be prepared for the post Lebron era.  Worrying about Howard and Bazemore in the short term is a waste of time.  Those contracts aren't good, but neither guy is going to be on this team long term.

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, Jody23 said:

Nobody is winning anything in the east as long as Lebron still reigns.  The Hawks need to focus on helping Schröder, Prince and Bembry get better for the next few seasons while figuring out how they can add other long term talent so they can be prepared for the post Lebron era.  Worrying about Howard and Bazemore in the short term is a waste of time.  Those contracts aren't good, but neither guy is going to be on this team long term.

But it doesn't hurt to speed that process up a bit. If this is Baze's and Dwight's ceiling with this team, they need to be moved as soon as possible. I had hope at the beginning and middle of the season that Dwight would be at least 90% of what he once was, but that's not happening. I hoped Baze would at least be better than he was season before last, but he wasn't and I think this is the Baze we are going to get for the duration of his contract. I was all in when these guys held that emotional press conference, but apparently emotion and the desire for redemption won't get you past the 1st Round.

[Jody23]

25 minutes ago, hawkman said:

But it doesn't hurt to speed that process up a bit. If this is Baze's and Dwight's ceiling with this team, they need to be moved as soon as possible. I had hope at the beginning and middle of the season that Dwight would be at least 90% of what he once was, but that's not happening. I hoped Baze would at least be better than he was season before last, but he wasn't and I think this is the Baze we are going to get for the duration of his contract. I was all in when these guys held that emotional press conference, but apparently emotion and the desire for redemption won't get you past the 1st Round.

It doesn't hurt, but realistically it will be difficult to get out of those contracts this offseason.  With only two years left on his deal, Dwight's deal could be moved, but I just don't see it with Bazemore.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Jody23

[Guest]

Points to @TheNorthCydeRises for cleverness.  

12 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Option 1:  30 Mill-sap

He had one of the best playoff performances I've seen from a Hawk in a while.  While I hesitate giving him the Max for 5 years, I wouldn't be all up in arms if they did.  Guys like him age slowly on the court, because his game isn't based on athleticism ( think Joe Johnson, Zack Randolph, Paul Pierce, etc ) and he'll be at least a high quality #2 or #3 guy on the last year of that contract.  He may even be the 6th man in year 5, that could provide timely offense in 25 min/gm, and be out on the floor at the close of games.   Next year though may be his best season yet.  He has at least 2 - 3 more high quality seasons in him.  And that's what you're ultimately paying for.

 

Option 2:  If you can win a title, ENTERTAIN

I think the Blake Griffin era is done in Los Angeles.  Of course, the Clippers may look to bring him back, from a ticket selling standpoint, but they've won about the same as the Joe Johnson era teams, come playoff time.  And they only got 6 years together before they broke that core up.   For the Hawks though, a Blake Griffin signing immediately pays dividends at the box office, as people will come out to see Blake.  His issue is health, as he's missed a whopping 83 regular season games in the past 3 years.  So is he even durable enough to be paid like a top 10 player?

 

Option 3:  The NEW Korver

JJ Redick will probably resign with the Clippers, seeing that they can offer him the most money.  If the Hawks decide that Hardaway Jr isn't worth something like a 3 yr - 45 million deal, maybe a sharpshooter like JJ Redick is, especially in Bud's offense.  And maybe JJ wants to finish his career with a team closer to home ( Cookeville, TN ).  JJ would fit in well with the Hawks, as a sharpshooter at the 2, or a main gun off the bench.

 

Option 4:  Get the "point"?

The lack of a quality backup PG really killed the Hawks this season.  And with the love of "small ball" in today's NBA, teams are routinely throwing out 3 guard combinations, sometimes with 2 PGs on the floor at the same time.  So maybe the Hawks opt to spend 10 - 18 mill a year on a good outside shooting PG who can function as a combo guard.  Darren Collison, Patty Mills and yes . . JEFF TEAGUE . . comes to mind.  Of course, the small guards are defensive liabilities, but they can be offensive strengths.

 

Option 5:  Olemrac Ynohtna

In the event that the Hawks bring back Millsap, they still need to add another scorer to the team.  Preferably a guy who can get his own shot at any time and be a deadly spot up shooter from 3.  That guy is STILL Carmelo Anthony, no matter how much fans hate him.  Maybe the Hawks could dangle Dwight Howard in front of the Knicks, to keep Porzingis out of the 5 spot ( even though that's probably what Krispy Kreme should be playing, but he's not tough enough ).  And since Melo "loves them strippers", what better place to come, than the ATL.  He's basically been evicted from NYC anyway.

Funny thing on sMelo was I figured Lala being a pseudo-ATL chik would be a potential draw here.  I hear @Jody23 when he says Lebron's presence means no one else is winning in the East.  However, I genuinely believe there is merit in being a skrong 2nd in the conference.  Puts you 1 injury or suspension away from the Finals, no?

On topic, I do believe we should work the back channels (does Wilcox have back channels?  See, this is way we need a real GM.) to see if we have a shot at Griffin.  Not a great fit with Howard but he's a great frontcourt scorer and a good passer.  Not the D presence that Sap was (emphasis on 'was' 'cause I think he took a step bak) but I think he adds enough on O to make up for it.

sMelo is not a horrible idea.  He'll come cheap in terms of trade-cost.  Salary shouldn't be a problem.  You gotta pay to play (win), especially when you're behind the 8-ball in terms of draft successes (#ThanksDan_E_Ferry)

In a league where shooting is at a premium, Reddick will be overpaid.  No thanks.  I'd prefer to draft the next Reddick or find a guy like that shooter MEM has (name escapes me).

If you can get Sap back on a 2/3 year deal, fine.  Nothing more than that.  That's where I differ from Cyde.  I don't even entertain a 4+ year deal for Sap.  Sure he'll age well but his contract won't.  You don't need him to be a strong #2/3 on the team while getting paid like a HOFer.  That's an imbalance.  It perpetuates the imbalance we have on the team pay/performance scale due to the awful drafting of Dan E.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Points to @TheNorthCydeRises for cleverness.  

Funny thing on sMelo was I figured Lala being a pseudo-ATL chik would be a potential draw here.  I hear @Jody23 when he says Lebron's presence means no one else is winning in the East.  However, I genuinely believe there is merit in being a skrong 2nd in the conference.  Puts you 1 injury or suspension away from the Finals, no?

On topic, I do believe we should work the back channels (does Wilcox have back channels?  See, this is way we need a real GM.) to see if we have a shot at Griffin.  Not a great fit with Howard but he's a great frontcourt scorer and a good passer.  Not the D presence that Sap was (emphasis on 'was' 'cause I think he took a step bak) but I think he adds enough on O to make up for it.

sMelo is not a horrible idea.  He'll come cheap in terms of trade-cost.  Salary shouldn't be a problem.  You gotta pay to play (win), especially when you're behind the 8-ball in terms of draft successes (#ThanksDan_E_Ferry)

In a league where shooting is at a premium, Reddick will be overpaid.  No thanks.  I'd prefer to draft the next Reddick or find a guy like that shooter MEM has (name escapes me).

If you can get Sap back on a 2/3 year deal, fine.  Nothing more than that.  That's where I differ from Cyde.  I don't even entertain a 4+ year deal for Sap.  Sure he'll age well but his contract won't.  You don't need him to be a strong #2/3 on the team while getting paid like a HOFer.  That's an imbalance.  It perpetuates the imbalance we have on the team pay/performance scale due to the awful drafting of Dan E.

Well Millsap isn't coming back on a 3 year deal.  He'll do himself and his family a disservice to give up tens of millions of dollars, just so that the Hawks can save some of their cap space . . . and STILL maybe not be in contention to win a championship.  So it's bye-bye Millsap, if we don't pay him close to the max for at least 4 years.

4 to 5 years from now, Millsap could easily have the same impact on a basketball game, that Zach Randolph had in Memphis this season ( at age 35 ).   14 ppg - 8 rebs, in just 25 minutes of play, and still the 3rd best player on the team.  If he's 3rd fiddle in the offense behind Schröder and Prince, that means Dennis and Taurean are All-Star, or borderline All-Star players.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Well Millsap isn't coming back on a 3 year deal.  He'll do himself and his family a disservice to give up tens of millions of dollars, just so that the Hawks can save some of their cap space . . . and STILL maybe not be in contention to win a championship.  So it's bye-bye Millsap, if we don't pay him close to the max for at least 4 years.

4 to 5 years from now, Millsap could easily have the same impact on a basketball game, that Zach Randolph had in Memphis this season ( at age 35 ).   14 ppg - 8 rebs, in just 25 minutes of play, and still the 3rd best player on the team.  If he's 3rd fiddle in the offense behind Schröder and Prince, that means Dennis and Taurean are All-Star, or borderline All-Star players.

No.  Just 'no' on paying Sap for more than 3 years.  Can he get 4+ from someone?  Sure, but no team better than us will be offering that.  He'll be in ORL or some other dysfunctional place.  LAC may do it after losing Griffin (to the Hawks, fingers-crossed).

And there is no way in heyul I'm paying a Zach Randolph-type max money for the role he's filling.  That's the problem.  We're constantly in a state of paying guys max money, not for their production, but paying them as a way to beg them to stay.  It'll hurt to see Sap go but we gotta break that cycle.  That's what small market teams have to do.  If we fancy ourselves as trying to rise above that, we gotta be fine with letting guys leave a year early rather than paying them and being stuck with their old/diminished years.

[frosgrim]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

No.  Just 'no' on paying Sap for more than 3 years.  Can he get 4+ from someone?  Sure, but no team better than us will be offering that.  He'll be in ORL or some other dysfunctional place.  LAC may do it after losing Griffin (to the Hawks, fingers-crossed).

And there is no way in heyul I'm paying a Zach Randolph-type max money for the role he's filling.  That's the problem.  We're constantly in a state of paying guys max money, not for their production, but paying them as a way to beg them to stay.  It'll hurt to see Sap go but we gotta break that cycle.  That's what small market teams have to do.  If we fancy ourselves as trying to rise above that, we gotta be fine with letting guys leave a year early rather than paying them and being stuck with their old/diminished years.

I completely agree. Just move on from Sap, and build the team from the ground up. We have two building blocks in Schröder and Prince. Let's add to that with young(er) shooters, and a grinder at C or PF. Trying to make the playoffs just to make the playoffs next year is a losing, long-term strategy. Take next year as a reload year and get ready for 18-19.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, frosgrim said:

I completely agree. Just move on from Sap, and build the team from the ground up. We have two building blocks in Schröder and Prince. Let's add to that with young(er) shooters, and a grinder at C or PF. Trying to make the playoffs just to make the playoffs next year is a losing, long-term strategy. Take next year as a reload year and get ready for 18-19.

Agreed although I don't think we'd be bad enough to miss the playoffs.  Get something like Taj Gibson and Ersan to man the 4, draft an energy big to develop like Hartenstein or the Bryant kid from Indiana and pickup a wing or shooter in free agency and we're on a fine reloadbuild as long as we focus on continuing to develop Dennis and Printz.

This all assumes we don't mortgage picks/future to get a star(ish) player such as betting on a year of Paul George (not my favorite).

[Ropadope]

There is a lot of talent in the draft this year. Bam Adebayo, Harry Giles, and Semi Ojeleye should give us some good options at 19 and 31.

[Lurker]

A guy I'd kick the tires on if you have to let THJ walk (and maybe even if you don't have to) is Ian Clark. Maybe you get a player like Memphis got in Troy Daniels in which they can come in and just shoot (and make) threes for you.

[Guest]

A couple of people have mentioned Ian Clark but I say EZPass.  I'm not confident in any of the 'others' from GSt excelling outside their "system" which consists of being surrounded by the best collective shooting in the league.  What kind of space would Clark have here or any other place?  None.  Then we're left to rely on his ability to create while under pressure.  He's a totally different player in that case.  Certainly not better than THJ.

[Alex]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

A guy I'd kick the tires on if you have to let THJ walk (and maybe even if you don't have to) is Ian Clark. Maybe you get a player like Memphis got in Troy Daniels in which they can come in and just shoot (and make) threes for you.

You must have read my post.  :)