Travis Schlenk: "The goal is to find another Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green"

[Bankingitbig]

I'd rather have THJ at $15m per year, than Millsap at ~$35M per year for 4-5 years. I think THJ has more room to grow in terms of his playmaking and shot selection. Also, I think he can improve his ability to drive and draw more fouls.

[DBac]

What even is the discussion in here

[Peoriabird]

Just now, Lurker said:

That won't be his career norm. His career norm will be 42% FG/34% 3PT.

You're killing me!

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, DBac said:

What even is the discussion in here

The topic is trying to keep up with Lurker's random thoughts about the Hawks and their players

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Now tell me a non lottery pick that has shot up big time and sustained it. Or just log off.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html

[macdaddy]

20 minutes ago, DBac said:

What even is the discussion in here

[JTB]

Our new GM is very interesting. Seem so nonsense and is saying all the right things. Can't wait to witness what he believes is a bad contract vs a player worth max money. in other words I can't wait to see if we trade Baze or Howard or both and if we decide to resign Sap or THJ at extremely high deals.

Being that no one really knows his intentions or can be certain of what his quotes truly means to him no one can really give a good prediction of what will happen this off season like we normally can.

 

of course no ones really ever knows what's  going to will happen but without knowing personality or traits of our new GM that's never had the role as the final decisions guy, predictions are kinda tough. Again Normally hawk fans can predict what will happen in the off season and usually we're right every blue moon we get a surprise ....anyways rumors for our team will be extremely interesting this year and may give us more insight on what type of GM we have.

 

 

[AHF]

Other All-Star, non-lottery SGs from NBA history:

All-Star Michael Redd - Career 19 ppg (#43 pick, became a starter his 4th season)

All-Star Latrell Sprewell - Career 18, 4, 4 (#24 pick)

All-Star Michael Finley - Career 16, 4, 3 (#21 pick)

All-Star and Finals MVP Joe Dumars - Career 16, 5, 2 (#18 pick)

All-Star Jeff Hornacek - Career 15, 5, 3 (#46 pick)

 

I could keep going but I feel like this is going to fall on deaf ears anyway or that I am going to hear "But none of these guys played college basketball at the University of Michigan so they don't count!"

[Lurker]

There's a pattern. All of them didn't have an average and stinky year to start their careers.

Again, THJ's upside has been met. He will not budge from what we saw from January on. Very likely...that's his ceiling.

[DBac]

THJ is a nice 6th man IMO. He can dribble and get buckets. Not a particularly great shooter (35% from 3, league average is 35.8%) , can make a nice pass on occasion but that's not really a strength of his, not good on defense. He's not really great in any area, but he can get hot at any time and score a bunch. 

 

I'd be ecstatic if Bembry suddenly developed into a ~38% 3 pt shooter because he'd be a great SG next to Dennis. He is nice on defense, great passer, moves well without the ball. Just can't shoot from deep at all. 

[Admin]

What a ground breaking statement. The Hawks need to draft young All Star / MVP caliber players while not overpaying for free agents. Why hasn't anyone else thought of this strategy to build a team? 

Oh and good to see every thread become about tanking and superstar players. It wouldn't be a proper Hawksquawk offseason without it.

[marco102]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Not me. I'm hoping for a declining scale contract - less money as he ages.

 

Can't wait, lol!!

I'm glad u said this. I wonder if Paul would take a declining deal. I'd be all aboard for that why the Hawks continue to rebuild. I still believe sao will be a good player at 36. His game is not based on athletiscm.

I just don't want his cap hit to be 30+ million around this time.

Edited May 26, 2017 by marco102

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

What a ground breaking statement. The Hawks need to draft young All Star / MVP caliber players while not overpaying for free agents. Why hasn't anyone else thought of this strategy to build a team? 

Oh and good to see every thread become about tanking and superstar players. It wouldn't be a proper Hawksquawk offseason without it.

Thanks Dolf, this is literally my posts every off-season since we traded Joe. 

[GameTime]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

Tim Hardaway Jr is Nick Young with a better personality. That's why so many have fallen in absolute love with him.

Better personality? Swaggy P has the best personality in the NBA. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by GameTime

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Someone will.  There was no incentive for him to decline his $21 million option if there wasn't a chance for a pay raise.  He would have picked up his option then would have been able to extend his contract for an additional 3 years with the Hawks. 

The 5-6 players making that changes this offseason. Again Dwight is making $23 so why won't Sap get $25.  It's about how in demand he'll be.

Actually there is a reason.  If he plays this year and is hurt, declines, etc, his payday next year is significantly less.  If he Declines this year and resigns a 4 year deal starting at 20 million, he'd make $60 million more than his current contract. Waiting to sign a new deal is a bad bet. This is his last big contract, he needs to strike now.  He's a 20 to 25 million a year player right now.  That is what he should get. I agree with you though, more than $25 million and the Hawks should pass.

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, AHF said:

@kg01

@Peoriabird

 

Let's clarify your bet.  Is the $25M for the first year of his contract or the minimum average salary for the next contract?  By way of example, if he gets a 4 year contract paying $24M, $26M, $28M, $30M for an average salary of $27M does KG win the bet because it averages over $25M or does PBird win the bet because it is a 2017-18 salary under $25M?

Freakin lawyers!!!

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

Kawhi was just out of the lottery, and besides, both he and Butler are mainly SFs.

Manu...you got me there, but how rare is that?

My point is, Tim is done growing as a player most likely. He's a limited player. Bookmark this if you wish, but I'll go ahead and say it, last year will be his best year. Call me if he goes and averages 20 PPG on good numbers.

SHOOTING GUARDS that have suddenly shot up and maintained it. That's the catch.

Stephen Jackson - SG 43rd pick. averaged 3.9 points per game his second season in the league. Then 11.8 his 3rd season. Came to the Hawks year 4, averaged 18.1 ppg.  He played 14 nba seasons averaging 15 ppg for his career.  His first 3 and last 3 years he averaged 8 ppg. For year 4 through year 11 he averaged (approximately) 19 ppg.

Edited May 27, 2017 by thecampster

[thecampster]

Monte Ellis - 40th pick.  Year 1/2 - 6.8 and 16.5 ppg.  Year 5 - 25 ppg. 17.5 ppg for his career.

[thecampster]

Jeff Hornacek 46th pick - first 3 years, 5, 9, 13 ppg.  Next 4 years 18.5 ppg.

 

There are about 50 more 2nd round SG's who had to learn the game years 1, 2, 3 and then became solid NBA starters for their career.  Or perhaps you would like to move the goal posts again.  Say maybe you meant, black Shooting Guards who are related to former players born between 1990 and 1995 with facial hair and less than 3 baby mamas....if that's the case, you got me.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

There's a pattern. All of them didn't have an average and stinky year to start their careers.

Again, THJ's upside has been met. He will not budge from what we saw from January on. Very likely...that's his ceiling.

It is very hard to have a conversation when statements are made that purportedly support a certain conclusion.  The statements are disproven then a new statement equally unsourced and disconnected from the conclusion is thrown out as if definitive.  When this is repeated like 5 times on the same topic in the same thread, it just boggles the mind.

 

You are now arguing that no SG has ever had a rough season early in their career and developed into a materially better player.  You have to know this is just as completely unsupported as all the other claims that have already been disproven.  I'm not wasting my time doing it again here because you'll just move the bar again and launch into another definitive statement that is way over broad.  

You have to know there have been SGs drafted outside of the lottery who struggled early in their careers and developed into better players.  Just stop making these broad generalizations and simply say that you don't believer in THJr and be done with it and stop pretending there is some objective data that establishes that a SG drafted outside the lottery who wasnt a possible lottery pick according to a random draft projection can never improve after their fourth year.  

There have been players who hit their ceiling in the past at this stage in their career.  It could happen with THJr and if you just say it is your opinion you can be done with it.  Pretending you see some data driven pattern here when you have no data just invites circular frustration.