Where the Heck is Coach Bud??

[KB21]

I'm convinced that the season ticket holder who suggested the Hawks fire Bud and hire Mark Jackson is posting in this thread, because I have seen some completely off the wall and outrageous comments towards Bud.  The guy is a great head coach who was limited in what he could do by the roster this past year.  

[benhillboy]

The newer posters here bringing groceries to the table.  I can dig it.

Personally I've thought Bud was a talent since the final stretch of his first season though.  From then until the Nets first round series the following year it felt like I was in a graduate level basketball course.  

The sharp decline of Kyle and departures of Quinn and Ken really hurt, let alone the obvious chemistry debacle with Dennis and Dwight.  National and numbers-based win projections were lower than the consensus on this board because we knew over the long haul Bud is good for 5 wins alone. We're defined by how we bounce back, I think Bud's gonna squeeze every bit of production from this Schlank Squad while The Tank Himself does his job to secure high quality picks.

Edited July 9, 2017 by benhillboy

[Lurker]

I recognize that the internet is #HotTakesCentral, but every coach seemingly has a year 2 jump. Just as everyone shouldn't have reacted big time positively to Bud's year 2 jump, the brakes should be tapped just a lil on Quinn's year 2 jump. And the same with Georgia, if Kirby Smart has a year 2 jump, which I'm expecting myself, the positivity needs to be held just a bit until he proves it.

Bud's system does rely on outside shooting, but it doesn't necessarily NEED for your center to be a stretch center. It does need for your center to NOT be a pure posting up center, and while Dwight tried, he does not like not being a posting up center. He said "it's time to get back to what I'm used to doing" (good luck) because he expects to be allowed to do more in the post now in Charlotte.

[Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks]

On 7/8/2017 at 5:34 PM, Peoriabird said:

You considered last year a success?  Mike smith has successful seasons also so what's the difference between the 2?

 

After this comment I lost you completely.

There is a stark difference when you watch a team like the hawks play versus a team like charlotte or knicks etc. The hawks are disciplined, and with what they lack in talent and athleticism, they make up with ball movement and the right play, and just about every nba announcer/ broadcaster takes notice, if you watch the games at least. They make the right plays on offense, and  play on a string on defense. We've been consistently in the top 10 on defense every year.  It's just that we really do not have any scorers or shooters, or real talent for that matter.

The 60 win hawks team consisted of two 40% shooters in demarre and kyle on the wings, a quality point guard rotation in dennis and teague, high bench players in dennis ,antic, sefolosha and bazemore,  one of the most talented big man tandems in the league in horford and milsap, and discipline and unselfishness at every corner. Last year featured a new starting point guard, kent, a run down korver/ streaky thj, and dwight friggin no havin hands ass howard. Literally did not when a game when milsap was out lol ! What did you expect out of that rotation, with no bench?

Your are really undermining how good of a coach bud is. He is undeniably a top 10 coach and has succeeded without top 10 talent. Finding another coach on his level is not easy. Just ask the knicks.

Sometimes you have to lose something to really understand how much you had......

Edited July 9, 2017 by Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks

[Eddielives]

On 7/8/2017 at 11:14 AM, Diesel said:

Coach Bud will be fired. 

It's a matter of time.   I think His coaching Philosophy is different than what Schlenk wants and Schlenk is looking for that rebuild time Coach... Maybe it's Jent.  Somebody who can stand to watch this team rebuild and grow the young players. 

 

Coach Bud will be fired only if he decides he doesn't want to be here and pushes for it.  What evidence do you have that Coach Bud would not want to work with this rebuild?  Please provide evidence and not conjecture.

[AHF]

Brad Stephens is overrated due to Boston media love.  Solid coach but should have won his first playoff series years ago.

[Thomas]

On 7/8/2017 at 11:52 PM, KB21 said:

I'm convinced that the season ticket holder who suggested the Hawks fire Bud and hire Mark Jackson is posting in this thread, because I have seen some completely off the wall and outrageous comments towards Bud.  The guy is a great head coach who was limited in what he could do by the roster this past year.  

Clarenton Crawford anyone? Lets hope we never hear from that turd again.

[Peoriabird]

13 hours ago, Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks said:

 

After this comment I lost you completely.

There is a stark difference when you watch a team like the hawks play versus a team like charlotte or knicks etc. The hawks are disciplined, and with what they lack in talent and athleticism, they make up with ball movement and the right play, and just about every nba announcer/ broadcaster takes notice, if you watch the games at least. They make the right plays on offense, and  play on a string on defense. We've been consistently in the top 10 on defense every year.  It's just that we really do not have any scorers or shooters, or real talent for that matter.

The 60 win hawks team consisted of two 40% shooters in demarre and kyle on the wings, a quality point guard rotation in dennis and teague, high bench players in dennis ,antic, sefolosha and bazemore,  one of the most talented big man tandems in the league in horford and milsap, and discipline and unselfishness at every corner. Last year featured a new starting point guard, kent, a run down korver/ streaky thj, and dwight friggin no havin hands ass howard. Literally did not when a game when milsap was out lol ! What did you expect out of that rotation, with no bench?

Your are really undermining how good of a coach bud is. He is undeniably a top 10 coach and has succeeded without top 10 talent. Finding another coach on his level is not easy. Just ask the knicks.

Sometimes you have to lose something to really understand how much you had......

The biggest point I am making is you and others talk about changed in personnel as though someone other than Bud was responsible for those changes. Secondly, when it was brutally obvious that Korver had turned into Steven Jackson, Bud still left Devontae Freeman on the bench until over half the season was gone. The love a fair with players like Muscala and Ryan Kelly over Eddie cannot be explained. If you have no questions about Bud's personnel decision or his often times bizarre line up then we are just not watching the same games.  The primary thing that separates Quinn from Smith is Quinn's ability to recognizes qualities in young players no one else sees and utilizes these strengths beautifully to win games.  Smith like Bud prefers to ride already half broken down vets into the ground which will only get you so far.

[Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks]

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The biggest point I am making is you and others talk about changed in personnel as though someone other than Bud was responsible for those changes. Secondly, when it was brutally obvious that Korver had turned into Steven Jackson, Bud still left Devontae Freeman on the bench until over half the season was gone. The love a fair with players like Muscala and Ryan Kelly over Eddie cannot be explained. If you have no questions about Bud's personnel decision or his often times bizarre line up then we are just not watching the same games.  The primary thing that separates Quinn from Smith is Quinn's ability to recognizes qualities in young players no one else sees and utilizes these strengths beautifully to win games.  Smith like Bud prefers to ride already half broken down vets into the ground which will only get you so far.

Although that is a good point that isn't enough to warrant a firing or even a thought about firing coach bud for that matter.

The thing is you keep running in circles. No one is here to deny that gm bud was putrid. He made crippling mistakes in not trading away horford and milsap for assets when he had the chance. We never had a clear understanding of what path we wanted to take, tanking or otherwise. I as well as everyone else on here agrees to this, so enough said.

Now, from a coaching standpoint, although I agree that he falls in love with certain players and it gets annoying ( korver, muscala, bazemore, antic) that isn't nearly enough to call for a firing. Every fan base complains about a few tendencies of there coach. Go over to the sbnations of Boston, Dallas, Cleveland, warriors, and hell even the spurs and I will guarantee when they are losing they have something to say about their coaches. 

Coach bud is doing a great job here in Atlanta. In fact he's doing such a good job that that is the only complaint anyone can come up with. He's one of the best defensive coaches in the league by a mile without any real defensive talent outside of mislap and an aging Thabo. Our team has been constantly up there in asissts every yea he's been here. He has developed no bodies into coveted free agents and Allstars. He's won a coach of the year. The culture has completely changed since he's come here. There is so much going for him and you choose to keep bringing up his love affairs with certain players?

Chill out a little, you're overreacting.

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks said:

Although that is a good point that isn't enough to warrant a firing or even a thought about firing coach bud for that matter.

The thing is you keep running in circles. No one is here to deny that gm bud was putrid. He made crippling mistakes in not trading away horford and milsap for assets when he had the chance. We never had a clear understanding of what path we wanted to take, tanking or otherwise. I as well as everyone else on here agrees to this, so enough said.

Now, from a coaching standpoint, although I agree that he falls in love with certain players and it gets annoying ( korver, muscala, bazemore, antic) that isn't nearly enough to call for a firing. Every fan base complains about a few tendencies of there coach. Go over to the sbnations of Boston, Dallas, Cleveland, warriors, and hell even the spurs and I will guarantee when they are losing they have something to say about their coaches. 

Coach bud is doing a great job here in Atlanta. In fact he's doing such a good job that that is the only complaint anyone can come up with. He's one of the best defensive coaches in the league by a mile without any real defensive talent outside of mislap and an aging Thabo. Our team has been constantly up there in asissts every yea he's been here. He has developed no bodies into coveted free agents and Allstars. He's won a coach of the year. The culture has completely changed since he's come here. There is so much going for him and you choose to keep bringing up his love affairs with certain players?

Chill out a little, you're overreacting.

I hear you but Mike Smith won coach of the year also...while I agree that his defensive principles are sound, the attention to other areas can be called into question like his lack of focus on rebounding especially offensive. There have been countless examples of where Bud would play the much weaker rebounders over the stronger ones even with a lead late in games. His offensive system requires above average shooting and passing which doesn't match his personnel. Good coaches adjust and change their system to better suit his personnel...Bud just rams his offensive system down the players throat even though we know players like Howard, Thabo, Millsap and Baze aren't good enough shooters to succeed in such a system.  Can he become a better coach?  I hope so for our sake but he has displayed so much stubbornness that it is doubtful. I guess I'll have to hang in there until the Hawks find their Dan Quinn.

[marco102]

37 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I hear you but Mike Smith won coach of the year also...while I agree that his defensive principles are sound, the attention to other areas can be called into question like his lack of focus on rebounding especially offensive. There have been countless examples of where Bud would play the much weaker rebounders over the stronger ones even with a lead late in games. His offensive system requires above average shooting and passing which doesn't match his personnel. Good coaches adjust and change their system to better suit his personnel...Bud just rams his offensive system down the players throat even though we know players like Howard, Thabo, Millsap and Baze aren't good enough shooters to succeed in such a system.  Can he become a better coach?  I hope so for our sake but he has displayed so much stubbornness that it is doubtful. I guess I'll have to hang in there until the Hawks find their Dan Quinn.

Please don't make me get back involved with this thread...

[sturt]

Aside, but not totally unrelated...

Interesting that the Knicks "acting GM" for lack of an official term ISN'T going to show for the presser welcoming THjr back to NYK.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/10/report-steve-mills-not-schedule-to-attend-knicks-tim-hardaway-jr-press-conference/

[hawkman]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Please don't make me get back involved with this thread...

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

Aside, but not totally unrelated...

Interesting that the Knicks "acting GM" for lack of an official term ISN'T going to show for the presser welcoming THjr back to NYK.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/10/report-steve-mills-not-schedule-to-attend-knicks-tim-hardaway-jr-press-conference/

Same old song and dance my friends.

Not only does this unfairly put Jeff Hornacek in the crosshairs, it also unfairly places the burden on Hardaway to defend his deal. Hardaway did nothing wrong, taking the money that was offered to him. But he’ll become the target of backlash. Mills dodging the press conference would completely fit the culture of no accountability that persists in James Dolan’s Knicks. Maybe Mills is the perfect candidate for the permanent job.

[Peoriabird]

52 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Please don't make me get back involved with this thread...

Nothing wrong with a healthy discussion so let's hear it

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Howard

Howard does not fit today's NBA. Period. Point blank. End of story. He and Kemba will be fighting before November is over.

[sturt]

BUD SIGHTING!!!

Was beginning to wonder if he was in Vegas at all. But he's sitting with Ressler today. Suppose that's a good sign.

[marco102]

59 minutes ago, sturt said:

BUD SIGHTING!!!

Was beginning to wonder if he was in Vegas at all. But he's sitting with Ressler today. Suppose that's a good sign.

So sad I thought of you when I saw Bud and wondered.  I wonder what Sturt will have to say about this...lol

[Thomas]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

BUD SIGHTING!!!

Was beginning to wonder if he was in Vegas at all. But he's sitting with Ressler today. Suppose that's a good sign.

A little like Mr Roarke and Tattoo.

[Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwks]

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I hear you but Mike Smith won coach of the year also

 

I’ll give you that.

 

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

the attention to other areas can be called into question like his lack of focus on rebounding especially offensive. There have been countless examples of where Bud would play the much weaker rebounders over the stronger ones even with a lead late in games.

Rebounding. Hmmmmm. Weren’t we the ninth best rebounding team this past season? We used to be a bottom rebounding team in prior seasons for no other reason than employing the same guy that destroyed Boston’s rebounding statics. Bud even made a joke about it. And so we had to adjust by running back in transition to prevent the outlet pass and easy transition buckets.

But with Dwight on board, I couldn’t really complain about out rebounding though. That wasn’t the biggest problem. Searching for those offensive rebounds did kill us though in those first two games vs wizards until we sat Dwight and went back to that old defensive strategy.

 

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

His offensive system requires above average shooting and passing which doesn't match his personnel. Good coaches adjust and change their system to better suit his personnel...Bud just rams his offensive system down the players throat even though we know players like Howard, Thabo, Millsap and Baze aren't good enough shooters to succeed in such a system.

Show me a coach that can form a system around the talent we had last year and succeed and I will show you a god.

8 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I hope so for our sake but he has displayed so much stubbornness that it is doubtful.

Yeah he can be stubborn at times. I agree with you on that. Still, the official jury is not out until we can see what this guy does with some future star talent in Collins, bembry,  prince and whoever else we add in coming years.