Ok Howard can officially lick ***

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, mrhonline said:

One could argue that Howard's presence played a role in that poor shooting from the perimeter.

How?   We all saw the games.  These guys were missing wide open shots.  

Baze had to get red hot in the 2nd half of the year, just to raise his 3 point % to just below 35%, which is league average.   Millsap took a whopping 241 threes, and only made 31% of them.  If Josh Smith would've done something like that, we would've crucified the dude.  Delaney, our backup PG, shot a worse percentage from 3 ( 23.6% ), than Josh Smith's career 3 pt % in ATL ( 28.3% ).

We were 24th in the league in catch and shoot 3 point percentage ( 35.7% ) and 23rd in catch and shoot shots overall ( 37.5% )

At least our "pull up" game was strong.  We were only 27th in the league in pull up 3 point percentage, at 29.2%.

Just think of what that percentage would be, had Hardaway Jr not started to heat up in January.

 

We were a garbage shooting team last year, with the strength of the team being defense and the play of our frontcourt guys ( Millsap and Howard ).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, kurupt said:

Here is the thing: I don't want to have to post the numbers that show that Howard was wildy inefficient on those plays compared to P&R plays for the 5th or 6th time on this forum.

Believe what you want to believe, that doesn't make it right/true/reality.

Post what you want sir.  Then post all of those horrible shooting percentages from our wings and guards, and see which group were the real culprits of inefficiency.

[Plainview1981]

On 8/18/2017 at 2:58 PM, KB21 said:

This is a sad case of a former superstar player who has lost his explosiveness but he still believes he is a superstar player.

Yep. There are people that tried so hard to defend the guy. Sometimes the truth is what people try to avoid facing the most.

This guy will promise a new start for every team he is on... Which he has been doing since he left Orlando basically. But it will be the same old game. I mean, maybe Charlotte makes some better use of him... But he still think he is the Dwight of 2009 and it just isn't so. It will not happen no matter what team he is on.

[Plainview1981]

20 hours ago, Flight said:

https://twitter.com/thenbpa/status/898579011235794947

 

I assume the rest of the Hawks players didn't get the memo on him being cancerous to the locker room? Lol

Rondo and Mello are also on that list.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 minute ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Yep. There are people that tried so hard to defend the guy. Sometimes the truth is what people try to avoid facing the most.

This guy will promise a new start for every team he is on... Which he has been doing since he left Orlando basically. But it will be the same old game. I mean, maybe Charlotte makes some better use of him... But he still think he is the Dwight of 2009 and it just isn't so. It will not happen no matter what team he is on.

My thing is this.  I'm not even saying that Dwight was great.  He simply did exactly what he was supposed to do.  If someone before last season said that Dwight would average 13 pts - 13 rebs and shoot over 60% FG, people would've been smiling from ear to ear to get that from him, in a secondary role.

But when the rest of the team started to suck, we needed him to do more.  But when he didn't ( or couldn't ) do more, people made him the scapegoat.

[Plainview1981]

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

My thing is this.  I'm not even saying that Dwight was great.  He simply did exactly what he was supposed to do.  If someone before last season said that Dwight would average 13 pts - 13 rebs and shoot over 60% FG, people would've been smiling from ear to ear to get that from him, in a secondary role.

But when the rest of the team started to suck, we needed him to do more.  But when he didn't ( or couldn't ) do more, people made him the scapegoat.

Well, I was lukewarm on him coming here last year.  I wasn't the biggest hater, but people thought he would get back to 18/11 at the very least. Sure, he had a number of impact games, but there were times I felt like he wasn't trying, or perhaps he wanted to be somewhere else. He doesn't play hard from game to game. He doesn't want to do the little things. He wants to get mostly post touches... And he wants he wants to be treated like Hakeem down there. He still has the mindset that he is one of the best players in the league and it just isn't the case.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

23 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Well, I was lukewarm on him coming here last year.  I wasn't the biggest hater, but people thought he would get back to 18/11 at the very least. Sure, he had a number of impact games, but there were times I felt like he wasn't trying, or perhaps he wanted to be somewhere else. He doesn't play hard from game to game. He doesn't want to do the little things. He wants to get mostly post touches... And he wants he wants to be treated like Hakeem down there. He still has the mindset that he is one of the best players in the league and it just isn't the case.

I need to pull up an old Dwight Howard thread then.  I don't remember anyone expecting 18 pts - 11 rebs from him.  I mean, to get that level of production, he'd need far more than 8 post touches a game.  

He's not one of the best players in the league, but he's still a top 10 center.  Too bad the Hawks couldn't fully take advantage of that.

[AHF]

He has a bit of Josh Smith in him at this point in his career.  Does some things get well - rebounding, straight up post defense and cleanup scoring but has become a liability on the P&R on D, doesn't emphasize his best offensive ability by rolling to the basket and doesn't set effective screens.  

[lethalweapon3]

Mill, meet more grist.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20340912/nba-charlotte-hornets-give-dwight-howard-best-last-chance

~lw3

[benhillboy]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

...Dwight still didn't get enough touches...

Most in the league ain't enough?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, benhillboy said:

Most in the league ain't enough?

8 wasn't enough . . . unlike the old TV show.

 

 

[Plainview1981]

27 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

8 wasn't enough . . . unlike the old TV show.

 

 

Players who look to score down low without skill sets stagnate offenses.

[KB21]

The bottom line is, the Hawks were better with Dwight off the floor than they were with him on the floor.  

[Flight]

2 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Rondo and Mello are also on that list.

 

Your point? Lol you know it's voted on by the players themselves right? The ones that actually play on the team with them? Not just people on the internet that believe whatever negative statements are given from "sources". 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Rondo and Mello are also on that list.

Rondo, it turns out, was the true leader of the Bulls.  He had the ear of all the young guys, while Wade and Butler were sulking and feeling sorry for themselves.

You remember this?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/rajon-rondo-rips-calls-out-dwyane-wade-jimmy-butler-instagram-leadership-loss-celtics-vets

 

Also, it was Chicago that had Boston down 0 - 2 in the 1st round.  But what happened when Rondo got hurt?  That team completely fell apart, with Wade and Butler trying to "lead" them, and they got swept the next 4 games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

The bottom line is, the Hawks were better with Dwight off the floor than they were with him on the floor.  

Not true.

Plus/minus or points per 100 possessions doesn't tell you everything.  This breaks it down a little better game by game.  

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/atlanta-hawks/players/dwight-howard/profile/17/1/6/7

[Plainview1981]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Rondo, it turns out, was the true leader of the Bulls.  He had the ear of all the young guys, while Wade and Butler were sulking and feeling sorry for themselves.

You remember this?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/rajon-rondo-rips-calls-out-dwyane-wade-jimmy-butler-instagram-leadership-loss-celtics-vets

 

Also, it was Chicago that had Boston down 0 - 2 in the 1st round.  But what happened when Rondo got hurt?  That team completely fell apart, with Wade and Butler trying to "lead" them, and they got swept the next 4 games.

Sometimes outside perspectives are better. If it was all about the inside guys the NBA would have nothing but former players as head coaches. People get caught up in bubbles. I'm sure Dwight is not a terrible person off the court . But if you can't understand how a past his prime player that doesn't make his teammates better and thinks he is still one of the best players in the league can be a problem, what else is there to say?

As for Chicago... Their team was pretty top heavy. They weren't all that talented or that good.

If Rondo is such a good leader, how come he ends up on so many teams? He hasn't really contributed to winning in years. Neither has Carmello Anthony. 

 

 

[Plainview1981]

Moreover, people keep talking about Dwight's FG%,

Well, we have Dewayne Dedmon now and he shot nearly as well as Dwight. All we need to do now is feed him a lot. He is surely to score a lot with that high FG%.

[AHF]

23 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Moreover, people keep talking about Dwight's FG%,

Well, we have Dewayne Dedmon now and he shot nearly as well as Dwight. All we need to do now is feed him a lot. He is surely to score a lot with that high FG%.

Assume that last part is tongue in cheek.

[Lurker]

NOTE: Unbiased observations here...

Steve Clifford has made it work to relative success with other plodding bigs. If he can't make it work with Howard today, WHO can in the NBA?

And don't say Gregg Popovich because there is substantial evidence that Spurs lineups with Pau and Aldridge are not very good at all and the reason they get away with it is because of Kawhi's greatness and a great bench. If we have an MVP caliber player involved, that can't be used as evidence that another coach can effectively use a plodding big.

If Clifford can take Miami to the brink in 15/16 with Al Jefferson playing a significant role he can certainly make it work with Dwight Howard, I'll admit that. But does it lead to them being one of the best teams in the East? Probably not. They will probably be one of the best of the mediocre teams...with a SIGNIFICANT gap between the best teams in the east and them...

And they will also find out that they are significantly better with Cody Zeller.