Kyrie to Boston . . Thomas to Cleveland . . oh boy

[KB21]

9 hours ago, sturt said:

CLE mulling nixing the trade per reports tonight over concerns with IT's hip.

 

...and they shouldn't.  They should just accept Crowder and the pick as being more than enough to get Irving.  

[sturt]

If it were take it or leave it, I'd agree.

But I feel there's just bound to be some other offer out there that gives them better value than to accept only Crowder, a pick, and a questionable Thomas. I'd be doing some quick evaluation of the other options, and I have to think that's what's going on today in Cavs HQ.

[bleachkit]

His hip must really be messed up. It might a degenerative type situation, where the structural integrity of the joint is compromised and rest will not really improve the situation.

[KB21]

45 minutes ago, sturt said:

If it were take it or leave it, I'd agree.

But I feel there's just bound to be some other offer out there that gives them better value than to accept only Crowder, a pick, and a questionable Thomas. I'd be doing some quick evaluation of the other options, and I have to think that's what's going on today in Cavs HQ.

For me, I see Jae Crowder as such an undervalued player right now, that I'd still accept this deal and whistle like nothing is going on.

[AHF]

I'd at a minimum demand another pick if IT is damaged goods.  Would definitely look at other options because while Crowder is an excellent role player, he is nothing more or less than a really good complimentary piece.  Kyrie is a core piece.

[KB21]

I disagree with Kyrie being a core piece, but I don't put much value on one dimensional scoring when you don't do anything else at even an average level.

[TheFuzz]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

I disagree with Kyrie being a core piece, but I don't put much value on one dimensional scoring when you don't do anything else at even an average level.

People keep saying this, but he's a fine passer! Even disregarding that, the Lebron effect or poor coaching, there's one thing that separates Kyrie from a "volume chucker": the dude is maybe the best finisher at the rim among guards and wings in THE ENTIRE LEAGUE! He'll prove himself this year I'm sure, all I'm saying is the evidence is there!

[DBac]

I think you're underrated Kyrie a ton. He's proven twice now that he can hang with (and in some occasions even outshine) Golden State's guys in the finals. Jae Crowder is a nice role player but he's not making up for the drop from IT/Kyrie to the corpse of Derrick Rose or Jose Calderon. Kevin Love has been extremely underwhelming vs Golden State. Lebron's best has already shown to not be enough. 

[Plainview1981]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

I disagree with Kyrie being a core piece, but I don't put much value on one dimensional scoring when you don't do anything else at even an average level.

The Cavs sucked when Lebron doesn't play and they sucked before Lebron got there.

Irving hasn't accomplished anything when he is the best player on the team.

 

 

[TheFuzz]

21 hours ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

The Cavs sucked when Lebron doesn't play and they sucked before Lebron got there.

Irving hasn't accomplished anything when he is the best player on the team.

 

 

He was, what, 23 when Lebron arrived?

[Plainview1981]

17 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

He was, what, 23 when Lebron arrived?

The Cavs record when Lebron doesn't play does little to convince me that Irving has what it takes to lead a team to greatness. 

Yeah, it's not a huge sample size, but I'm not convinced that Irving is some kind of big star. He is a good scorer who will probably be less efficient without Lebron.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Hotlanta1981

[Flight]

Y'all acting like point guards lead teams to championships lol. 

Outside of Steph Curry, Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson. I would love to see y'all name a PG that leads a dominate team as the best player.

 

[Plainview1981]

On 8/27/2017 at 3:06 PM, Flight said:

Y'all acting like point guards lead teams to championships lol. 

Outside of Steph Curry, Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson. I would love to see y'all name a PG that leads a dominate team as the best player.

 

But most championship teams also don't feature a guy that takes a ton of shots.

The Bulls had Kerr Harper, the Lakers had Fish, The Spurs have Parker but he isn't the type that looks to score 25 PPG. Then you have the Mavs winning with Kidd. 

[Flight]

12 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

But most championship teams also don't feature a guy that takes a ton of shots.

The Bulls had Kerr Harper, the Lakers had Fish, The Spurs have Parker but he isn't the type that looks to score 25 PPG. Then you have the Mavs winning with Kidd. 

 

Thats because they all had a far superior scoring talent on their roster. And you can't even count Kidd, he was so far into his career at that point. All the others aren't even elite PGs in any sense. 

Curry led his team in scoring their first championship so, it's not like it's impossible. But it's definitely not probable that your PG is gonna get you a ring if he's the best player on your roster. 

[Buzzard]

I like this trade for Boston a lot; and for me that is very tough to say. Long term, they are one more superstar away from being another beast in the East. With Irving 25 yrs old and Hayward 27 years old, Ainge has a year or two to make that happen.

[Plainview1981]

10 hours ago, Flight said:

 

Thats because they all had a far superior scoring talent on their roster. And you can't even count Kidd, he was so far into his career at that point. All the others aren't even elite PGs in any sense. 

Curry led his team in scoring their first championship so, it's not like it's impossible. But it's definitely not probable that your PG is gonna get you a ring if he's the best player on your roster. 

Well, Curry extremely efficient. It remains to be seen if Irving and be as efficient without Lebron.

At the end of the day, Irving is a good player, but I'm just not sure he is going to win without Lebron.  Maybe he can guide a team to a middle of the pack seeding, but I'm just not convinced that he is is going to lead a team to great things as option number one. I don't think he improves Boston all that much this year. But we'll see.

[Flight]

14 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Well, Curry extremely efficient. It remains to be seen if Irving and be as efficient without Lebron.

At the end of the day, Irving is a good player, but I'm just not sure he is going to win without Lebron.  Maybe he can guide a team to a middle of the pack seeding, but I'm just not convinced that he is is going to lead a team to great things as option number one. I don't think he improves Boston all that much this year. But we'll see.

 

Yeah that's my point really, Kyrie isn't gonna be Curry level efficient so I wouldn't expect a championship from his leadership but I will say their team should be better with him. 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Flight said:

 

Yeah that's my point really, Kyrie isn't gonna be Curry level efficient so I wouldn't expect a championship from his leadership but I will say their team should be better with him. 

Not sure I think he will help Boston anymore than Thomas did last regular season.  If he matches Thomas' efficiency last season I'll be super impressed with his year.

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Not sure I think he will help Boston anymore than Thomas did last regular season.  If he matches Thomas' efficiency last season I'll be super impressed with his year.

I agree it is a pretty even trade scoring wise. I think Ainge did it to keep moving his team to a younger level while still maintaining the talent level. I like Kyrie long term, say another five year deal, more than IT on the same deal.

Boston is still one superstar away but now they should have a year or two longer of a window to get that 3rd star. Then once they get him, a year or two longer to play with that three star core together.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

I agree it is a pretty even trade scoring wise. I think Ainge did it to keep moving his team to a younger level while still maintaining the talent level. I like Kyrie long term, say another five year deal, more than IT on the same deal.

Boston is still one superstar away but now they should have a year or two longer of a window to get that 3rd star. Then once they get him, a year or two longer to play with that three star core together.

Agree on all this.  Just will be interested to see if Hayward and Irving in 2017 > IT, Bradley and Crowder in 2016.  Expectations will be up this year but not sure the roster warrants it for this year.