JTB Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, AHF said: Cleveland blatantly tanks winning multiple #1 overall picks... Golden State wins 20 some games repeatedly during a period in which they draft Curry, Thompson, Draymond and admittedly outright tank for Barnes... Yup. Nothing good. Come man don’t use the Cavs as an example please! LeBron bailed on them, they got kyrie, continued to lose, then LeBron came back with love and a bunch of other reliable role players. their one championship has nothing to do with tanking. It has all to do with LeBron coming back and bringing good players with him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, JTB said: Come man don’t use the Cavs as an example please! LeBron bailed on them, they got kyrie, continued to lose, then LeBron came back with love and a bunch of other reliable role players. their one championship has nothing to do with tanking. It has all to do with LeBron coming back and bringing good players with him. Not to mention that Kyrie Irving may be the most overrated player in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, KB21 said: Bud already has one leg out the door. That’s speculation man....bud is a wait and see type cause this could turn into something great. So right now I believe his comments and right now I believe he’s behind this 100% but again I can only see him being ok with tanking for one year and being in the lotto for a maximum of two years before he gets fed up. schlenk knows how good coach bud is and he doesn’t want to just lose him in this process so I see this as bud is giving him a chance to give him some quality long term players. right now buds feet are currently still in the door. We will know when the first toe is out the door, it will be obvious. 6 minutes ago, KB21 said: Not to mention that Kyrie Irving may be the most overrated player in the NBA. Lol well I don’t agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LamarHampton Posted October 31, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 OMFG another tank v no tank thread!!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted October 31, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, KB21 said: I'm just stating the truth of the situation. Nothing good comes out of tanking. I think you are Hots alternate account. You posted very infrequently for years but now since the rebuild started it is a daily deluge of negative posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, JTB said: That’s speculation man....bud is a wait and see type cause this could turn into something great. So right now I believe his comments and right now I believe he’s behind this 100% but again I can only see him being ok with tanking for one year and being in the lotto for a maximum of two years before he gets fed up. schlenk knows how good coach bud is and he doesn’t want to just lose him in this process so I see this as bud is giving him a chance to give him some quality long term players. right now buds feet are currently still in the door. We will know when the first toe is out the door, it will be obvious. Lol well I don’t agree with that I'd be willing to bet that Bud isn't the Hawks coach going into year 2 of this tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, Sothron said: I think you are Hots alternate account. You posted very infrequently for years but now since the rebuild started it is a daily deluge of negative posts. There's nothing to be positive about at the moment. The powers that be have officially come out and admitted that they are tanking. That alone means nothing positive comes from this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 31, 2017 Moderators Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 hours ago, KB21 said: Again, trying to make the distinction between two teams who intentionally built shitty rosters to get a high draft pick. Oh, and Cleveland tried, but the draft just cannot supply the talent needed to turn around a crappy team. They did not try at all. After Lebron they gave away Mo Williams (All-Star one season before Lebron's departure), Shaq, Big Z, Delonte West - basically every veteran on the roster who they didn't think had a chance for a future with the team. Sound familiar? Who were the big FA signings that Cleveland made while they "tried" to win big? You looking at Ramon Sessions or Luke Walton there? You are a smart guy who hates tanking but you reach so hard sometimes to try to force the narrative that nothing good ever comes out of deliberately getting into the lottery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 31, 2017 Moderators Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 hours ago, JTB said: Come man don’t use the Cavs as an example please! LeBron bailed on them, they got kyrie, continued to lose, then LeBron came back with love and a bunch of other reliable role players. their one championship has nothing to do with tanking. It has all to do with LeBron coming back and bringing good players with him. LeBron coming back had everything to do with the lottery picks they acquired. Why did LeBron leave Cleveland? He already made the finals there but thought there wasn't enough talent on the team and so the path to a ring was too hard. Why did he come to Miami? He could pair with two All-Star / All-NBA talents. Why did LeBron leave Miami? Bosh and Wade got old and hurt and were only getting worse. Why did he come back to Cleveland? They added #1 Kyrie Irving, #4 Tristan Thompson, #1 Andrew Wiggins who could be flipped for a 2x All-NBA, 3x All-Star Kevin Love coming off his age 25 season, etc. Let's not pretend he was happy to come back to Cleveland because he wanted to win a ring there regardless of the roster. He left when the team didn't have sufficient supporting cast and then returned when they had the All-Star/All-NBA talent to pair with him - just like he jumped to Miami when they had the All-Star talent to pair with him. If he leaves Cleveland it will be because he thinks the talent has dipped again and he will join another team with the talent he thinks will make him a prohibitive favorite to be in the finals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted October 31, 2017 Moderators Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 LeBron returning to Cleveland is similar to KG agreeing to come to Boston. Why did he do that? Boston drafted an All-Star/All-NBA talent and held onto him and then they flipped lottery talent for KG and for another All-Star/All-NBA talent that he could pair with. Would he have agreed to the trade to Boston if they didn't draft and retain PP or if they didn't have the draft assets (primarily the #5 pick if I recall) to flip for Ray Allen? No. Not at all. He was put off by the losing and by the racist past of the city but that fell to the side when the chance to pair up with a couple of studs materialized. Suddenly an undesirable franchise became a place he wanted to be. Similar to GS going from FA wasteland to KD's preferred landing spot when they landed enough studs in the draft (after ditching vets they didn't think were part of their future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Keep stretching in an attempt to find reasons to support the foolish strategy of tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted October 31, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Why are you guys engaging him? He's already said this whole season is a failure no matter what happens. What possible good is it to have the same tank/not tank argument in every single thread EVERY DAY because one guy is mad that Ressler and Bud didn't get his personal approval to rebuild? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Peoriabird Posted October 31, 2017 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 48 minutes ago, AHF said: LeBron returning to Cleveland is similar to KG agreeing to come to Boston. Why did he do that? Boston drafted an All-Star/All-NBA talent and held onto him and then they flipped lottery talent for KG and for another All-Star/All-NBA talent that he could pair with. Would he have agreed to the trade to Boston if they didn't draft and retain PP or if they didn't have the draft assets (primarily the #5 pick if I recall) to flip for Ray Allen? No. Not at all. He was put off by the losing and by the racist past of the city but that fell to the side when the chance to pair up with a couple of studs materialized. Suddenly an undesirable franchise became a place he wanted to be. Similar to GS going from FA wasteland to KD's preferred landing spot when they landed enough studs in the draft (after ditching vets they didn't think were part of their future). 38 minutes ago, KB21 said: Keep stretching in an attempt to find reasons to support the foolish strategy of tanking. You are so patient @AHF. You get an A+ for effort but I think you are wasting your time. The 3 guys that @KB21 wanted to keep have the following efficiency ratings Dwight Howard 15.35 @ $23 mill per year Paul Millsap 13.56 @ $30 mil per year Tim Hardaway 10.59 @ $16.5 Mil per year Somehow these players were going to help the Hawks compete in the conference playing at their current level of play. What's laughable is the players that replaced them have similar or better efficiency ratings at a fraction of the cost. Dwayne Dedmon 12.77 @ $7 mil per year John Collins 21.92@ $1.9 mil per year Marco Belinelli 17.64@ $6 mil per year 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted October 31, 2017 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 58 minutes ago, Sothron said: Why are you guys engaging him? He's already said this whole season is a failure no matter what happens. What possible good is it to have the same tank/not tank argument in every single thread EVERY DAY because one guy is mad that Ressler and Bud didn't get his personal approval to rebuild? I respect KB, and also, I admit I've had my occasions when I took every opportunity to evangelize my perspective on my pet issue of the moment. This very thread, in fact, originated out of a gut reaction to finally seeing Bud explicitly comment on such a pet issue. But KB is right to comment about it here, imo, because it's on-topic even if it's the same-old-same-old from him. And Soth is right to comment that it does come to a point where it's a little silly to keep engaging the same-old-same-old as-if the vast majority here hadn't already long-ago formed their opinion on the topic. In my opinion, that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sturt Posted October 31, 2017 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 11 hours ago, KB21 said: I'd be willing to bet that Bud isn't the Hawks coach going into year 2 of this tank. So, November 1 2018, you're now saying you feel lock-certain Bud will not be the Hawks coach? If you'd asked me before I read Bud's quotes, I'd say that's not unreasonable. I've read Bud's quotes now. I think it's completely unreasonable. I think Bud's pattern has been to avoid saying anything at all on these kinds of things, and the fact that he said what he did is convincing. I don't know what's going on in your head that you're that sold-out to clinging to such a prediction when, in order to hold on to it, you pretty much have to consider Bud a bold-faced liar. So, let's do this... what's the bet? EDIT: Caveat... If the SAS job comes open (with Pops deciding to start his 2020 presidential campaign?... hehe... ), I believe that's the one situation that would be too attractive to Bud to turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazer Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I’ve been considering betting him on the “won’t be back in the playoffs in 5 years” thing too. I think I will, name the stakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaceCase Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, AHF said: They did not try at all. After Lebron they gave away Mo Williams (All-Star one season before Lebron's departure), Shaq, Big Z, Delonte West - basically every veteran on the roster who they didn't think had a chance for a future with the team. Sound familiar? Who were the big FA signings that Cleveland made while they "tried" to win big? You looking at Ramon Sessions or Luke Walton there? You are a smart guy who hates tanking but you reach so hard sometimes to try to force the narrative that nothing good ever comes out of deliberately getting into the lottery. Must be talking about the big summer splurge where they brought in the catalyst for Philly's tank, Andrew Bynum, then reserves Earl Clark and Jarrett Jack. I suppose that could be considered trying...but if the bar is so low why then is the interpretation of the Hawks offseason entirely different? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazer Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, sturt said: EDIT: Caveat... If the SAS job comes open (with Pops deciding to start his 2020 presidential campaign?... hehe... ), I believe that's the one situation that would be too attractive to Bud to turn down. Agree: if the Spurs job opened up Bud would take it. But otherwise I don’t see him bolting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazer Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, MaceCase said: Must be talking about the big summer splurge where they brought in the catalyst for Philly's tank, Andrew Bynum, then reserves Earl Clark and Jarrett Jack. I suppose that could be considered trying...but if the bar is so low why then is the interpretation of the Hawks offseason entirely different? It isn’t, and he knows it. But that doesn’t feed his anger, nor jive with his narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I still see a lot of stretching to try and justify blatant tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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