Atlanta Hawks could be "destination" for Jahlil Okafor

[hazer]

Ehhhhhhh 

[cam1218]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

You are missing the point.  It is not a matter of budget.  If we don't trade for him, we could sign him for $7M, $10M - whatever we want up to the max - next season.  If we trade for him, we can't sign him for more than $6.3M.  

Philly is capped as to how much they can offer him in the offseason.  Because they declined his option, they can only offer him a contract paying as much as the qualifying offer.  If another team offers $1 more, they can't match it.  They can't offer more on their own.  They are stuck to offering him $6,313,832 or less.

Any team that trades for him steps into Philly's shoes and gets their rights.  They get the RFA rights to him.  They get the Bird Rights to him.  But it is like getting Superman's powers where you also become vulnerable to kryptonite.  You get limited to not being able to offer him more than $6.3M.  So if any team wants to pay $6.5M for him, they can offer that and you can't.

That is why we are better off going after him in the offseason if we think he actually has potential for the long-term.

Good information here. I was all for it for a second round pick or two, but if this is the case it’s a waste of time. 

[AHF]

I'm also not super excited about him if he is worth 5M.  We need to be focused on developing Collins.  Bud wants a PF or C on the floor who can space at all times.  Okafor cannot space at all.  Bud doesn't consider Dedmon or Collins a spacing big.  So if all things are equal I'd rather have coaching attention and available minutes going to Collins.  Also not excited about Okafor's crappy, crappy D and disgruntled attitude when his minutes are limited.  Bud sits young players until they play D the way he wants and, again, Okafor is competing for minutes with Collins and Dedmon.  So when you know you lose him if he is good and you have to divert opportunity to him away from your most exciting young player and you risk him setting a bad tone for those young players...adds up to a hard pass for me.

[DBac]

Okafor played 3 minutes and was -5 with 3 fouls and 0-2 with a turnover. He got beat out by Richaun Holmes. I seriously think he's cooked yall.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'm also not super excited about him if he is worth 5M.  We need to be focused on developing Collins.  Bud wants a PF or C on the floor who can space at all times.  Okafor cannot space at all.  Bud doesn't consider Dedmon or Collins a spacing big.  So if all things are equal I'd rather have coaching attention and available minutes going to Collins.  Also not excited about Okafor's crappy, crappy D and disgruntled attitude when his minutes are limited.  Bud sits young players until they play D the way he wants and, again, Okafor is competing for minutes with Collins and Dedmon.  So when you know you lose him if he is good and you have to divert opportunity to him away from your most exciting young player and you risk him setting a bad tone for those young players...adds up to a hard pass for me.

Maybe not Collins (yet) but bud is pretty confident in Dedmons shot as far as him taking that 3 pointer when it presents itself 

http://atlantahawks.blog.ajc.com/2017/10/09/dewayne-dedmon-to-shoot-threes-as-hawks-seek-floor-spacing/

What makes the Hawks think Dedmon can do it?

“You are always watching guys before games or (during) summers,” coach Mike Budenholzer said. “You have friends around the league. You are trying to find out could he shoot it a little bit? Can he? I think we felt like between watching him and talking to a few people we could maybe push him and get him to expand his game and include shooting 3’s. So far we are pretty happy with it.”

“It’s something coach wanted me to start doing so I’m going to accept the challenge and let them fly,” Dedmon said. “I’ve got to get some reps up and then in the game, be ready. Form is pretty solid. I’ve been working on my form ever since I was in Orlando (2013-14) so I feel like it’s at a comfortable place right now.”

 

honestly Dedmons shot in terms of form looks awesome. I don’t mind him taking that 3 when he’s open either. He doesn’t abuse buds decision of wanting him to take 3s as if bud is saying you have the green light like curry or anything like that instead he plays very smart and just takes what the defense gives him.

Edited November 8, 2017 by JTB

[JTB]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

You are missing the point.  It is not a matter of budget.  If we don't trade for him, we could sign him for $7M, $10M - whatever we want up to the max - next season.  If we trade for him, we can't sign him for more than $6.3M.  

Philly is capped as to how much they can offer him in the offseason.  Because they declined his option, they can only offer him a contract paying as much as the qualifying offer.  If another team offers $1 more, they can't match it.  They can't offer more on their own.  They are stuck to offering him $6,313,832 or less.

Any team that trades for him steps into Philly's shoes and gets their rights.  They get the RFA rights to him.  They get the Bird Rights to him.  But it is like getting Superman's powers where you also become vulnerable to kryptonite.  You get limited to not being able to offer him more than $6.3M.  So if any team wants to pay $6.5M for him, they can offer that and you can't.

That is why we are better off going after him in the offseason if we think he actually has potential for the long-term.

Good information didn’t realize that

[AHF]

7 hours ago, JTB said:

Maybe not Collins (yet) but bud is pretty confident in Dedmons shot as far as him taking that 3 pointer when it presents itself 

http://atlantahawks.blog.ajc.com/2017/10/09/dewayne-dedmon-to-shoot-threes-as-hawks-seek-floor-spacing/

What makes the Hawks think Dedmon can do it?

“You are always watching guys before games or (during) summers,” coach Mike Budenholzer said. “You have friends around the league. You are trying to find out could he shoot it a little bit? Can he? I think we felt like between watching him and talking to a few people we could maybe push him and get him to expand his game and include shooting 3’s. So far we are pretty happy with it.”

“It’s something coach wanted me to start doing so I’m going to accept the challenge and let them fly,” Dedmon said. “I’ve got to get some reps up and then in the game, be ready. Form is pretty solid. I’ve been working on my form ever since I was in Orlando (2013-14) so I feel like it’s at a comfortable place right now.”

 

honestly Dedmons shot in terms of form looks awesome. I don’t mind him taking that 3 when he’s open either. He doesn’t abuse buds decision of wanting him to take 3s as if bud is saying you have the green light like curry or anything like that instead he plays very smart and just takes what the defense gives him.

Can you think of any reason other than the fact the Bud doesn't consider Dedmon a spacing big that he doesn't play Dedmon together with Collins?  (I know they have shared like 60 seconds together this year but to me that is so little it clearly reinforces he wouldn't be comfortable playing either guy on the floor at the same time with a low post big.)

[JTB]

26 minutes ago, AHF said:

Can you think of any reason other than the fact the Bud doesn't consider Dedmon a spacing big that he doesn't play Dedmon together with Collins?  (I know they have shared like 60 seconds together this year but to me that is so little it clearly reinforces he wouldn't be comfortable playing either guy on the floor at the same time with a low post big.)

Sure you could look at it that way not saying you’re wrong about that but you can also look at it as bud believes Dedmon and Collins are truly the better bigs on this team that can play center over the rest of the bigs available to him in this rotation . Perhaps he’s realized that Moose & Ersan really are strictly power forwards and there’s no need to move them to center when Dedmon and Collins can play that position a lot better.

Also we know bud is going to have Collins shooting 3s at some point! It’s just a part of his development that they haven’t gotten to in real games yet but it’s coming for sure.

[DarnShadyRefs]

Sometimes I can't stand  coach buds offense. It usually doesn't have enough ball handlers and is heavily taxing on the off to create everything for everybody. That's why Milsap will be missed.

When our shots aren't falling, and opposing defenses close the paints on our pgs dribble penetration, we need a big or two with Milsap or Jahlil offensive skillset to add another dimension to it. I'm tired of seeing ungodly long stretches especially in  the playoffs, because everyone is camped out at the point line. 

[JTB]

On 11/6/2017 at 11:43 PM, AHF said:

You guys realize he is an UFA and whatever team trades for him will be unable to offer more than the qualifying offer Philly didn't make last year?  That means you are worse off if he develops this season and shows he has potential because you can't even pay him 7M per on his next deal.  If you don't trade for him you can offer him anything you want.

Dont give up s single asset for him.  Sign him as a FA if you want him.

Now that the suns are dropping in this race it makes me wonder. you are saying the max someone can offer him is just 6.3 mil for next season from how I understand it but if a franchise is dead set on keeping him they can sign him long term with more money in the additional seasons correct??...like poison pill type contract that Jeremy Lin and Asik received from the rockets.

 

so I’m saying sure it’s just 6.3m this season than the next season it could be 8 or 10 m and however much more throughout his contract 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JTB

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Now that the suns are dropping in this race it makes me wonder. you are saying the max someone can offer him is just 6.3 mil for next season from how I understand it but if a franchise is dead set on keeping him they can sign him long term with more money in the additional seasons correct??...like poison pill type contract that Jeremy Lin and Asik received from the rockets.

 

so I’m saying sure it’s just 6.3m this season than the next season it could be 8 or 10 m and however much more throughout his contract 

If the Suns trade for him, they can only offer him 6.3M in the first year of a new contract.  Each additional season in his new deal is limited by the cap on raises so they can't get much higher than that at any point in the contract.

If the Suns trade for him, the Hawks could offer whatever they want - $8M, 10M, etc. and just steal him away from the Suns with little difficulty.

[ATLSmith]

On 11/6/2017 at 8:52 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Okafor's crime is that he's not Embiid.  This dude could ALWAYS ball.

Clips are from his rookie year ( first 3 months )

 

Well, he's not afraid of contact.

If the Hawks can land him for a decent deal, then why not?

[AHF]

41 minutes ago, ATLSmith said:

Well, he's not afraid of contact.

If the Hawks can land him for a decent deal, then why not?

Because if he is any good we can't resign him.  See above.

[sturt]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

Because if he is any good we can't resign him.  See above.

To be accurate... if he's very good, we can't resign him.

If he's just good, given what we just saw the market do this off-season, it's pretty safe to say we can resign him.

[AHF]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

To be accurate... if he's very good, we can't resign him.

If he's just good, given what we just saw the market do this off-season, it's pretty safe to say we can resign him.

Moose signed for 5M per.  If the much younger former top recruit/draft pick shows life he will get more than that.  He doesn't need to be very good - just to show promise.

[sturt]

I like the Moose comparison. But I think it's testimony to what a good but not very good player will get. At this stage, people won't get lost in his draft slot.

[JTB]

8 hours ago, AHF said:

If the Suns trade for him, they can only offer him 6.3M in the first year of a new contract.  Each additional season in his new deal is limited by the cap on raises so they can't get much higher than that at any point in the contract.

If the Suns trade for him, the Hawks could offer whatever they want - $8M, 10M, etc. and just steal him away from the Suns with little difficulty.

Ok so a team who owns his rights even in the additional seasons of contract after year 1 he still wouldn’t be eligible to get too much more than the 6.3 mil.

really makes it hard to believe any rumors for him then cause it just doesn’t make any sense for teams that have cap space and assets to trade for him.

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, JTB said:

it just doesn’t make any sense for teams that have cap space and assets to trade for him.

Pretty much.  If they waive him or buy him out then the story changes and it is much more appealing to go after him.  But trading for him? I see zero reason to do that.

[JTB]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Pretty much.  If they waive him or buy him out then the story changes and it is much more appealing to go after him.  But trading for him? I see zero reason to do that.

Thought about this...I’m a little confused why the 76ers didn’t extend the qualifying offer on him if they knew they’d want assets in return for him.

you don’t play a guy, then you don’t extend him and now you want something decent in return for him...that doesn’t make any sense to me. His value was already down and they may possibly get absolutely nothing out of this whole thing.

not that I care what opposing teams are doing but i wonder what the thought process was behind this one for the 76ers.

[AHF]

58 minutes ago, JTB said:

Thought about this...I’m a little confused why the 76ers didn’t extend the qualifying offer on him if they knew they’d want assets in return for him.

you don’t play a guy, then you don’t extend him and now you want something decent in return for him...that doesn’t make any sense to me. His value was already down and they may possibly get absolutely nothing out of this whole thing.

not that I care what opposing teams are doing but i wonder what the thought process was behind this one for the 76ers.

They have been shopping him for a year and haven't gotten an offer they think is worth pulling the trigger on.  Then they were faced with the decision whether to extend the qualifying offer and they were more afraid of getting stuck with him for another year than they were enticed by the idea of extending the offer and trying to deal him.  The offers they got for him must have been terrible.

I think the league is extremely down on him right now and they tried to hedge their bets hoping he would show something and someone would try to deal for him this season while negating the risk of having to carry him for $6M+ for another season.  As it is, they are holding damaged goods through both Okafor's lack of D and range and their own actions and no one is biting.