Do You Hear What I Hear?

[TheFuzz]

If Porter is healthy and his shot is for real he's a good prospect, but I don't believe in his ballhandling or his passing ability. Similar to a Prince level prospect for me, 

[TheFuzz]

Absolute best case scenario is like a 3/4 version of Klay IMO.

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

 

https://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/draft-hawks-assistant-jeff-peterson-michael-porter/XBckdPCzsHMAMvodK9FYNI/

Looks like the hawks disagree with you. They also believe he's a 3. I read all these Jeff Peterson reviews on players, and he's basically telling you Michael is special offensively.  He didn't say that about any of the other prospects.  The Hawks have played it very coy with Porter this off season almost to the point I thought he was their guy. Schlenk has never mentioned him by name to my knowledge, so I was surprised to see them do this breakdown, but kudos to the AJC for forcing their hand. 

The comparison to Andrew Wiggins is silly. They are nothing alike other than they play basketball. Andrew is a uber athlete playing basketball that has very little natural feel or instincts for the game. Andrew is prone to disappearing for long stretches, and has the charisma and personality of acorn. I'm not sure Andy loves basketball,  and has always had inconsistent effort and shot. Everyone expected Andrew two way potential to shine through and make him worthy of the number one pick. People always questioned his offense. If he was the defender was supposed to be he would be Paul George esk. 

Porter Jr is a basketball player that happens to be athletic.  He's been around basketball his whole life and he's a coaches son. Believes hes the best player on the court and against his peers in this class has been a killer. They outline in the interview all the ways he can score. Guy can make NBA level shots that usually are developed later in your NBA career. This guy is in the mold of KD and will shoot over smaller guys in the NBA and go around biger guys. He's a legit 3 level scorer in the NBA that will draw doubles. It's mind boggling to me how you can like Jontay so much a dislike his brother whom is a far superior prospect. He's basically Jontay with more athletcism, range,  ways to score, and an alpha mentality. 

I want to see the Hawks reach for greatness this is not the time to play it safe. If you fail reaching for greatness I can live with it. I was not thrilled about the rebuild just like you KB, but I realize that's a sunk cost now. This is likely the highest pick will have during this rebuild.  If we're going dive, then make sure the pearl is worth it. 

 

I like Porter Jr. 

[hazer]

Porter is definitely an intriguing prospect. With NBA trending toward positionless ball, a Très/Printz/M-Port/J-Bap/Ded? run/transition/pace lineup would shit-ton fun to watch.

[hazer]

Now NBAdraft dot net is showing Hawks taking Trae Young with the 3rd pick. 

[Brotha2ThaNite]

6 minutes ago, hazer said:

Now NBAdraft dot net is showing Hawks taking Trae Young with the 3rd pick. 

[Flight]

21 hours ago, hazer said:

Porter is definitely an intriguing prospect. With NBA trending toward positionless ball, a Très/Printz/M-Port/J-Bap/Ded? run/transition/pace lineup would shit-ton fun to watch.

I just think having him could be amazing just because of the matchup problems he'll present for the other teams we play. 

[macdaddy]

On 6/8/2018 at 1:14 PM, Dragitoff said:

I said this in another thread when someone (might've been you) brought that point up, but I think Bud gets far too much credit for development of young players despite being one of the most stubborn coached about playing young players.  I definitely get that we were trying to win every season except last season he was here, but there were some vets who were struggling mightily and kids who had shown promise in limited action, yet Bud kept them glued to the bench.  If you are trying to say Hawks nation didn't bemoan some of Bud's rotations during his tenure, you're fooling yourself.  

I think Pierce in Philly developed more talent from the ground up than Bud did in ATL so I'm good with the developmental side of our coaching staff now.  

Who were these promising kids that he kept glued to the bench?   I'm racking my brain for an example.  Moose, Jenkins, Dennis, Scott, Mack all got healthy minutes.   I'm racking my brain but just can't think of any promising youngsters that were held back.  

[Dragitoff]

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Who were these promising kids that he kept glued to the bench?   I'm racking my brain for an example.  Moose, Jenkins, Dennis, Scott, Mack all got healthy minutes.   I'm racking my brain but just can't think of any promising youngsters that were held back.  

Collins last year barely got any PT early on, even when we were in full blown tank mode

Bembry played lockdown defense on Harden and then sits the next few games

Prince was playing well his rookie year and fought like hell to get PT early on

Those are just a few examples over the past 2 years.  There are certainly more.  I can also pull mountains of threads where Hawks fans were complaining over Bud's rotations and his reluctance to play rooks.  

[Vol4ever]

Until they announce the pick on the 25th I would say nobody knows at this point including the GM.  

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

Collins last year barely got any PT early on, even when we were in full blown tank mode

Bembry played lockdown defense on Harden and then sits the next few games

Prince was playing well his rookie year and fought like hell to get PT early on

Those are just a few examples over the past 2 years.  There are certainly more.  I can also pull mountains of threads where Hawks fans were complaining over Bud's rotations and his reluctance to play rooks.  

Collins averaged over 20 minutes a game in October and November so not getting that he barely got PT.  Especially since he was racking up tons of fouls.Prince?  You're supposed to fight to get PT.  That's the point. 

Practice, watching, learning all play a part.  Prince finished his rookie year averaging 25 minutes a game and had become the starter.   I hardly think giving a rookie 3 months of spot duty before giving them heavy rotation = being glued to the bench.  

Bembry played lockdown defense in one game but has been a below average nba player by all measures.  It's hard to stay on the floor when you can't shoot.

Maybe I just disagree with your terminology.   Reluctance to play rookies?  These guys all got minutes as rookies and Prince and Collins were heavy rotation guys.   

 

[capstone21]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

Now NBAdraft dot net is showing Hawks taking Trae Young with the 3rd pick. 

That would be an absolutely horrible mistake ... taking away the fact that I don't want us to draft the guy (I just think he is going to be a bust) we don't waste a third pick on him and instead trade back and get more assets because he will be there around 6-7.  

[Dragitoff]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Collins averaged over 20 minutes a game in October and November so not getting that he barely got PT.  Especially since he was racking up tons of fouls.Prince?  You're supposed to fight to get PT.  That's the point. 

Practice, watching, learning all play a part.  Prince finished his rookie year averaging 25 minutes a game and had become the starter.   I hardly think giving a rookie 3 months of spot duty before giving them heavy rotation = being glued to the bench.  

Bembry played lockdown defense in one game but has been a below average nba player by all measures.  It's hard to stay on the floor when you can't shoot.

Maybe I just disagree with your terminology.   Reluctance to play rookies?  These guys all got minutes as rookies and Prince and Collins were heavy rotation guys.   

 

Prince wasn't a heavy rotational piece until later in the year.  I definitely agree that players should earn their PT; however my point is that people keep saying Bud U developed all this great talent.  Where are they?  They did a phenomenal job resurrecting careers and helping players who were fringe players turn into quality rotational players, but I disagree they developed all this great NBA talent from the ground up.  

Schröder is still essentially who he was when Bud took over.  He's a low efficiency PG who doesn't make his teammates better. 

Bembry still has a broken shot and turns the ball over too much. 

Tavares is playing overseas. 

Prince is showing flashes of being a really solid player, but is still inconsistent.  Could be more a factor of his inexperience than blamed on coaching staff

Same for Collins as Prince.  

Payne is a fringe NBA player

Mike Scott did more than most thought he would as an NBA player but if his jumper wasn't falling, he was a liability.  He's still a fringe NBA rotational piece and his off-court issues further diminish his long-term ability to be anything more than a distraction

John Jenkins is fighting for a G League spot

The list goes on and on.  Most of our picks right before Bud or during his time in ATL are guys that either fringe players.  I'll give you that we were a playoff team during that timeframe so most of our picks were outside the lottery.  I'm just saying where are all these rookies that Bud U developed?  

[benhillboy]

23 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I like Porter Jr. 

Haha.  Nothing better than expecting a couple paragraphs from Supes yet getting succinctness at its finest.

As an NBA fiend who never watches college Porter Jr is the most intriguing prospect to me.  If I had to bet one way or the other I’d say Young will bust.

The development and use of Bigs today in the NBA just has me like meh on all those prospects.  We saw young Conference Finals starters up front like Aaron Baynes, PJ Tucker, Javele McGee, and Tristan Thompson.  All second round talents.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Haha.  Nothing better than expecting a couple paragraphs from Supes yet getting succinctness at its finest.

As an NBA fiend who never watches college Porter Jr is the most intriguing prospect to me.  If I had to bet one way or the other I’d say Young will bust.

The development and use of Bigs today in the NBA just has me like meh on all those prospects.  We saw young Conference Finals starters up front like Aaron Baynes, PJ Tucker, Javele McGee, and Tristan Thompson.  All second round talents.

True. Then again, most of the bigs with great potential aren't even in their 2nd contracy yet. We aren't in the big mans era which we will be soon

[GThawks3]

2 hours ago, hazer said:

Now NBAdraft dot net is showing Hawks taking Trae Young with the 3rd pick. 

Exactly who I want. He works out for the Hawks tomorrow. 

Porter has not proven anything past high school. Way to risky for me at #3.

[asdogg]

When has a big in the mocern era of the NBA lead their team to success? KAT, AD,Embid? With pace and space, I think super stars are PGs and wings. Trae has solid offensive stats and had 9 dimes on a talent deficient team.  He still scored more then 23 ppg when opposing defenses zeroed in on him.  He may not make it as chances are neither will the others being discussed. But if he does I think he has superstar potential. 

[hazer]

Yes, Très is not that tall (taller than Chris Paul). Yes, he turns the ball over (looking at you Russell Westbrook). No, he doesn’t have very tenacious D at this point (¡olè!, my name is James Harden). But he possesses an ELITE court vision with generational passing and playmaking skills. Have you seen his passing? It’s Nash-esque. The player he says he’s trying to immulate. Would you take Nash 3rd? Hell yes you would. Oh yeah, kid can shoot, Curry-esque. Seen his touch on that floater? Oh yeah, he did all this with no help from his shitty team. ANY of these lottery picks can bust, you don’t play it safe with the 3rd pick, you swing for the home run. I don’t think he’ll bust, he’ll more than likely be a Top 5 PG in a few years. That being said, I think trading back for Young is the smarter move. But if they covet him at 3, can’t find the trade-back deal rich enough, and take Young at 3 and he’s the next Steve Nash, no one will be complaining and Schlloyd will look like a genius.

[macdaddy]

2 hours ago, Dragitoff said:

Prince wasn't a heavy rotational piece until later in the year.  I definitely agree that players should earn their PT; however my point is that people keep saying Bud U developed all this great talent.  Where are they?  They did a phenomenal job resurrecting careers and helping players who were fringe players turn into quality rotational players, but I disagree they developed all this great NBA talent from the ground up.  

Schröder is still essentially who he was when Bud took over.  He's a low efficiency PG who doesn't make his teammates better. 

Bembry still has a broken shot and turns the ball over too much. 

Tavares is playing overseas. 

Prince is showing flashes of being a really solid player, but is still inconsistent.  Could be more a factor of his inexperience than blamed on coaching staff

Same for Collins as Prince.  

Payne is a fringe NBA player

Mike Scott did more than most thought he would as an NBA player but if his jumper wasn't falling, he was a liability.  He's still a fringe NBA rotational piece and his off-court issues further diminish his long-term ability to be anything more than a distraction

John Jenkins is fighting for a G League spot

The list goes on and on.  Most of our picks right before Bud or during his time in ATL are guys that either fringe players.  I'll give you that we were a playoff team during that timeframe so most of our picks were outside the lottery.  I'm just saying where are all these rookies that Bud U developed?  

No disagreement there.   Hawks U never converted fringe nba players but I always thought of Hawks U as taking the Demarre's and Millsaps and hell even Horfords and making them great players.   I don't think anyone really has the magic bullet to make marginal talents into NBA players though.   

[Dragitoff]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No disagreement there.   Hawks U never converted fringe nba players but I always thought of Hawks U as taking the Demarre's and Millsaps and hell even Horfords and making them great players.   I don't think anyone really has the magic bullet to make marginal talents into NBA players though.   

Bud's staff (I think it was Atkinson and Snyder mostly) did an amazing job of helping guys like Demarre, Dedmon, Millsap, Horford, Bazemore, Korver, etc. take their games to higher levels.  It's the development of rookies I was pointing out.  Pierce, by all accounts, was instrumental at doing that in Philly.  I do; however, know it's apples and oranges as Hawks were outside lottery picks and Philly was top 10 picks so the talent pool should've been a little deeper to start.  I just got so frustrated with people acting like the Hawks will never develop talent now that Bud is gone.