Do You Hear What I Hear?

[nathan2331]

Honestly I'm going to be mad if we trade back to take Trae Young. A lot of things have to go right to make the pick worth it. Unless he hits his absolute ceiling I don't think we're getting value out of the pick.

 

Like say Trae puts up Kemba Walker-like numbers, which is All-Star level in the East. That would be a good outcome for him, but we've already got Dennis who isn't far from that himself (shooting aside). It's not that I don't value point guards, it's just that their talent pool is much deeper. If you don't have one you can sign a stopgap very easily. At #3 in this draft I'd rather draft a center and there are 3 guys who could fit the bill. There are a metric ton of quality wing prospects later in the draft, and next year there are even better prospects at SG where we'll likely be drafting.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, bird_dirt said:

Mavs more or less in the same boat as us without Dirk. I don't believe for a second they would trade an unprotected lottery pick in next year's draft just to move up a couple slots this year. 

This is what anyone with any sense would know

[kg01]

47 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Honestly I'm going to be mad if we trade back to take Trae Young. A lot of things have to go right to make the pick worth it. Unless he hits his absolute ceiling I don't think we're getting value out of the pick.

 

Like say Trae puts up Kemba Walker-like numbers, which is All-Star level in the East. That would be a good outcome for him, but we've already got Dennis who isn't far from that himself (shooting aside). It's not that I don't value point guards, it's just that their talent pool is much deeper. If you don't have one you can sign a stopgap very easily. At #3 in this draft I'd rather draft a center and there are 3 guys who could fit the bill. There are a metric ton of quality wing prospects later in the draft, and next year there are even better prospects at SG where we'll likely be drafting.

I just find it funny that everybody hates Dennis' "selfish", shoot-first(y) play but somehow think they'll love Young skraight jakin' up halfcourt shots 'cause he just feels like it and abusing Spalding until he finds a shot/pass he likes.

Sure the supposed duds on the Sooner squad went along with it.  Sure has-been Kreuger went along with it.  What TF were they gonna say?

Real NBA coaches/players will get tired-a that act in short order.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I just find it funny that everybody hates Dennis' "selfish", shoot-first(y) play but somehow think they'll love Young skraight jakin' up halfcourt shots 'cause he just feels like it and abusing Spalding until he finds a shot/pass he likes.

Sure the supposed duds on the Sooner squad went along with it.  Sure has-been Kreuger went along with it.  What TF were they gonna say?

Real NBA coaches/players will get tired-a that act in short order.

Most who know what they are talking about like Young because he has great court vision and is a great passer who can elevate the level of his teammates.  

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I just find it funny that everybody hates Dennis' "selfish", shoot-first(y) play but somehow think they'll love Young skraight jakin' up halfcourt shots 'cause he just feels like it and abusing Spalding until he finds a shot/pass he likes.

Sure the supposed duds on the Sooner squad went along with it.  Sure has-been Kreuger went along with it.  What TF were they gonna say?

Real NBA coaches/players will get tired-a that act in short order.

I think that's a false narrative.   Young at 18 is already a much better passer than Dennis and has a much more versatile offensive skill set.  

[kg01]

 

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think that's a false narrative.   Young at 18 is already a much better passer than Dennis and has a much more versatile offensive skill set.  

NCAA = NBA?  Who knew?

[Flight]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

NCAA = NBA?  Who knew?

I'd venture to say even high school Trae Young had better passing instincts than Dennis does right now honestly. lol

[nathan2331]

Most who know what they are talking about like Young because he has great court vision and is a great passer who can elevate the level of his teammates.  

What's he going to do against players much larger and physical than him? He's got exceptional passing ability, but without the threat of getting to the rim, it's not that effective. He's not explosive enough to make teams worry about switches. Who's worried about Trae Young getting to the rim? I don't think he's like Curry, but if he's gonna be successful he's going to have to become craftier around the rim and as a ball handler otherwise he's too easy to shut down.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Most who know what they are talking about like Young because he has great court vision and is a great passer who can elevate the level of his teammates.  

 

What's he going to do against players much larger and physical than him? He's got exceptional passing ability, but without the threat of getting to the rim, it's not that effective. He's not explosive enough to make teams worry about switches. Who's worried about Trae Young getting to the rim? I don't think he's like Curry, but if he's gonna be successful he's going to have to become craftier around the rim and as a ball handler otherwise he's too easy to shut down.

He will be able to get to the rim just fine.  I do question his ability to finish at the rim, but his ability to get there is not in question.  His passing instincts and IQ will carry him.

[Flight]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

26 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Most who know what they are talking about like Young because he has great court vision and is a great passer who can elevate the level of his teammates.  

 

What's he going to do against players much larger and physical than him? He's got exceptional passing ability, but without the threat of getting to the rim, it's not that effective. He's not explosive enough to make teams worry about switches. Who's worried about Trae Young getting to the rim? I don't think he's like Curry, but if he's gonna be successful he's going to have to become craftier around the rim and as a ball handler otherwise he's too easy to shut down.

Similar things were said about Steve Nash. Some players just have the intelligence to figure it out, I wouldn't be surprised if in the right system Trae Young does as well. 

[hazer]

32 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I just find it funny that everybody hates Dennis' "selfish", shoot-first(y) play but somehow think they'll love Young skraight jakin' up halfcourt shots 'cause he just feels like it and abusing Spalding until he finds a shot/pass he likes.

Sure the supposed duds on the Sooner squad went along with it.  Sure has-been Kreuger went along with it.  What TF were they gonna say?

Real NBA coaches/players will get tired-a that act in short order.

He has very high assist numbers, his team was assisted on over 50% of their scores, and he’s a wizard passer.

[hazer]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is what anyone with any sense would know

I have plenty of sense and think it’s very possible if they covet who we pick (Bagley?). Dirk says he’s not retiring, btw. 

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Flight said:

Similar things were said about Steve Nash. Some players just have the intelligence to figure it out, I wouldn't be surprised if in the right system Trae Young does as well. 

A Steve Nash type is the 99% outcome for Trae, IMO.  I think he's more Nash than Curry (not the shooter Curry is but much better passer).  I think people forget that Curry was looked at as an undersized shooting guard coming out of Davidson.  

[Flight]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

A Steve Nash type is the 99% outcome for Trae, IMO.  I think he's more Nash than Curry (not the shooter Curry is but much better passer).  I think people forget that Curry was looked at as an undersized shooting guard coming out of Davidson.  

I can agree with that, Curry had a lot more experience due to playing SG for a number of years but what Trae is already capable of doing at his age and level of experience speaks volumes of his ability to learn and develop skills. I'm really interested to see what he can do with that offense that has players more talented than OU did.

[TheFuzz]

3 hours ago, hazer said:

He doesn't. He already stated in a post he thinks he has a superior degree and pay grade than the rest of us.

... how embarrassing. Really?

[hazer]

14 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

... how embarrassing. Really?

Unfortunately, really.

[macdaddy]

55 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Most who know what they are talking about like Young because he has great court vision and is a great passer who can elevate the level of his teammates.  

 

What's he going to do against players much larger and physical than him? He's got exceptional passing ability, but without the threat of getting to the rim, it's not that effective. He's not explosive enough to make teams worry about switches. Who's worried about Trae Young getting to the rim? I don't think he's like Curry, but if he's gonna be successful he's going to have to become craftier around the rim and as a ball handler otherwise he's too easy to shut down.

Everyone he's played against for probably the last 3 years is larger and more physical than him.   It hasn't really hindered him that much.   Crafty is really his strong suit.   His ability to hit a floater is already there.  

I understand the concern that he's just too small.  I just don't understand comparing him to Dennis.   Dennis has two advantages over Trae: speed and wingspan.   Everything else Trae does as well or much better on the offensive end.   And they both suck on D right now.   There is .5 inch difference in height between these guys.

[Dnice]

What? That boom?

 

 

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

 

NCAA = NBA?  Who knew?

What does that even mean?  Are we not able to judge passing and court vision until they get to the NBA?  Tell that to the Luka fans.  

[nathan2331]

 

 

Everyone he's played against for probably the last 3 years is larger and more physical than him.   It hasn't really hindered him that much.   Crafty is really his strong suit.   His ability to hit a floater is already there.  

I understand the concern that he's just too small.  I just don't understand comparing him to Dennis.   Dennis has two advantages over Trae: speed and wingspan.   Everything else Trae does as well or much better on the offensive end.   And they both suck on D right now.   There is .5 inch difference in height between these guys.

 

When I first saw Dennis with the Hawks, I thought he had no chance because I thought he was too small to last. I was dead wrong, I underestimated his desire to win. Trae may very well be the same way and figure it out for himself. If he wants to be like Steve Nash, then I can see it to some extent, but the ball never left his hand at Oklahoma unless it was a clear assist. Otherwise he was looking for his own shot.

 

My comparison with Dennis isn't that they play similarly, just that we have Dennis on the roster already and most likely won't be able to move him for equivalent value. So that leads me to ask just how good we expect Trae Young to be to justify making the moves to select him wherever, when we hold the #3 pick in the draft. Because he for sure has to be better than Dennis (and at his best, we've seen Dennis go against John Wall and hold his own). Then, if you're picking at #3 you'd have to say he'll be such a better PG than Dennis, you're willing to sell low on Dennis and spend the pick or trade down to get Trae. I don't think he'll be that good.

 

For me, Trae would have to be a top 5 PG in the league for the decision to make sense. Dennis isn't far from being a top 10 PG himself. I'd rather keep him, flaws and all, and draft a big.