OKC and Atlanta in talks - Dennis and Muscala for Melo - Deal Done (Not Fake News)

[sturt]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

Well there was a rush, given that teams with the ample salary cap space required to absorb Melo were quickly eating that up with re-signings and other cap dumps (Chicago, Brooklyn, and yes, the Hawks).  You suggested no difference between now and October when...well, to your own admission,  the number of locations where Melo could potentially be traded have long since dramatically decreased between lack of cap and desire to have an already settled roster leaving behind the only trade options that OKC themselves found to be unpalatable from the jump. 

I should have been more precise.

There was a rush in the way you've described, true.

But I'll be pretty satisfied if... (a) for the 39th time, if there was no explicit promise made to Melo and thus our integrity as a franchise isn't at risk... and (b) if we take at least as long to buyout Melo as Presti took to find trade partners that some thought he'd never find... recognizing that Presti had the incentive you described but we have no such incentive (for the 40th time, again, absent any promise made to Melo)... thus, I'd be more happy if we just waited until training camp, and perhaps until right before the season starts.

In fact, I don't know why we wouldn't, unless there's something else in it for us to make us act before that.

 

[KB21]

This is what you are doing is you wait to buy out Carmelo and try to find someone who will give up value to get him.  NO ONE is going to give up anything of value to trade for him and take on his contract.  Go ahead, buy him out, and get that headache off the team.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

That you continue to try to advance a false premise--that I don't think it's going to end up being a buyout--is either clever rhetoric or yet another example of assumption.

You're totally missing my point, but I'm not smart enough to figure out another way to put it.

You seem to disagree that the buyout was a prerequisite to the trade and that there's some sort of wiggle room to strong-arm the situation.  Most of us disagree.

Fair assessment? 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[sturt]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

You seem to disagree that the buyout was a prerequisite to the trade and that there's some sort of wiggle room to strong-arm the situation.  Most of us disagree.

Fair assessment? 

Appreciate the attempt.

Answer: Close.

More precisely, I disagree that OKC gave a damn about Melo's best interests. They only wanted to get rid of Melo in whatever way would serve OKC's best interests. If Melo was happy, that's all good and fine, but he had already granted that he would not invoke his NTO, and that was golden.

Not finding any teams interested in a basketball trade of any kind, it was reported that they began looking at the few teams potentially interested in swallowing his contract in exchange for a draft pick. What the other team wanted to do with him beyond that would naturally be between those two parties.

I'm not sure how any of that is even disputable.

The only thing legitimately in dispute is whether our people talked with Melo's people and made them a promise.

And to that, I have largely been the singular person authentic enough to grant the "maybe they did" response. I'll even grant that it's "likely" they did.

I'm not hearing anyone admit to even a sliver of a chance that "maybe they didn't." To the contrary, the response on that side has been that it's a case of necessary inference. No real assumption involved.

Fair assessment?

 

 

[thecampster]

18 minutes ago, sturt said:

Appreciate the attempt.

Answer: Close.

More precisely, I disagree that OKC gave a damn about Melo's best interests. They only wanted to get rid of Melo in whatever way would serve OKC's best interests. If Melo was happy, that's all good and fine, but he had already granted that he would not invoke his NTO, and that was golden.

Not finding any teams interested in a basketball trade of any kind, it was reported that they began looking at the few teams potentially interested in swallowing his contract in exchange for a draft pick. What the other team wanted to do with him beyond that would naturally be between those two parties.

I'm not sure how any of that is even disputable.

The only thing legitimately in dispute is whether our people talked with Melo's people and made them a promise.

And to that, I have largely been the singular person authentic enough to grant the "maybe they did" response. I'll even grant that it's "likely" they did.

I'm not hearing anyone admit to even a sliver of a chance that "maybe they didn't." To the contrary, the response on that side has been that it's a case of necessary inference. No real assumption involved.

Fair assessment?

 

 

Nope! Because Carmelo's people were granted permission to talk with the teams he was being traded to. There is only one reason to do that, to discuss that team's intentions pre-trade so that Carmelo would be informed when the league contacted him to approve the trade.  The conversation happened because A) Carmelo approving this trade was a prerequisite of the league based on his status and B) His people (agent) was in contact with any potential trade partner (which is why they asked and were granted permission).

I covered this earlier but here is how it goes.  The trading teams make a formal agreement (in writing) and submit it to the league. The league goes over the details of the deal to make sure it satisfies the terms of the CBA. In this case, one of those terms is Carmelo's status as a 10/5 player that gave him the right to veto any trade. The NBA then contacts the player, who in writing, agrees at that time to the league to the trade.  There is no "blanket" agreement to waive his trade rights. It is in writing to the league. Any blanket agreement is a verbal agreement with the team with conditions. In this case, that his people could get an agreement from the team to waive him if it wasn't a preferred destination.

[sturt]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I covered this earlier. 

Respect you. Also respect Woj. There was a discrepancy between your description and his reporting.

 

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Carmelo's people were granted permission to talk with the teams he was being traded to. There is only one reason to do that, to discuss that team's intentions pre-trade so that Carmelo would be informed when the league contacted him to approve the trade.

Nope!

There is at least one other reason to do that.

Same reason that I can't clone myself and readily interact effectively with 29 other organizations nearly as well as I can achieve what I'm trying to achieve if I have myself plus some number of others.

They call it pragmatism because that's what it is.

 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Respect you. Also respect Woj. There was a discrepancy between your description and his reporting.

 

Nope!

There is at least one other reason to do that.

Same reason that I can't clone myself and readily interact effectively with 29 other organizations nearly as well as I can achieve what I'm trying to achieve if I have myself plus some number of others.

They call it pragmatism because that's what it is.

 

I think you're spitting hairs here!

I'm assuming Woj wrote it for the common fan, not with a legal description as my description is boring and doesn't read well. But that is how it happens.

[sturt]

Woj wrote it as past tense. The deed was done.

Not as something that Melo still was in any way controlling.

What you've described is more than a split hair away from that, imo.

Done with the topic. Anyone who wants a last word, take it.

[Thomas]

But really at this point I'm hoping its water under the bridge or very soon anyway because the real issue for us from this trade is how our PG position does moving forward. With Lin healthy and Trae chomping at the bit the minutes can be managed and a good semblance of offense is deployed via passing game. Assists equals points in the boxscore. A decent backup SF is a nice bonus. The first....who knows but am extremely hopeful. 

[Buzzard]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I think you're spitting hairs here!

I'm assuming Woj wrote it for the common fan, not with a legal description as my description is boring and doesn't read well. But that is how it happens.

Just agree with him otherwise he is just going to say you are wrong and no you are not right all night long. He is right in his mind,

There is no agreement and we will keep Melo for a good while, trying to trade him; instead of cutting him loose as soon as possible so he can go sign with Houston or someone else.

[MaceCase]

5 hours ago, sturt said:

I should have been more precise.

There was a rush in the way you've described, true.

But I'll be pretty satisfied if... (a) for the 39th time, if there was no explicit promise made to Melo and thus our integrity as a franchise isn't at risk... and (b) if we take at least as long to buyout Melo as Presti took to find trade partners that some thought he'd never find... recognizing that Presti had the incentive you described but we have no such incentive (for the 40th time, again, absent any promise made to Melo)... thus, I'd be more happy if we just waited until training camp, and perhaps until right before the season starts.

In fact, I don't know why we wouldn't, unless there's something else in it for us to make us act before that.

 

See none of this makes any sense because you've completely ignored key milestones that facilitated this move as they did not just occur in a vacuum without key events influencing them.  Melo refused to exercise his ETO around the 25th of June, lest than a week before the start of free agency on July 1st.  Less than a month from both Melo not exercising his ETO and the start of free agency he was traded.  Do you see how this is a far cry from your suggestion of waiting till October? 

So what is your big solution?  Wait 19-25 days to find a trade?  Find a trade during the doldrums of free agency where teams have already used the majority of their cap space and where teams who may actually have an interest in Melo as a player are already filling their roster spots with ~vet min players?  All that leaves are teams interested in Melo as an expiring which completely defeats the purpose of the Hawks acquiring him in the first place if they are going to just clutter up their capsheet again with hefty contracts.  And oh yea, this all while needing Melo to once again waive his NTC.

So what is the end game to all of this here, Sturt?  An exercise in pendanticism? 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Pragmaticism, Pendanticism - too many big words now cluttering the issue .....which is and will always will be Atlanta traded for Melo and will waive/buy him out.

[thecampster]

Updating the depth chart.

Young/Lin/ either Dorsey/Adams/Maybe Robinson

Baze/Heurter/Bembry

Prince/Anderson/

Collins/Spellman/

Dedmon/Plumlee/Len

 

2 slots available.  Need a PG and either a PF or g/f

[turnermx]

Updating the depth chart.

Young/Lin/ either Dorsey/Adams/Maybe Robinson

Baze/Heurter/Bembry

Prince/Anderson/

Collins/Spellman/

Dedmon/Plumlee/Len

 

2 slots available.  Need a PG and either a PF or g/f

 

I’m cool with JR for 3rd string PG

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[KB21]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Woj wrote it as past tense. The deed was done.

Not as something that Melo still was in any way controlling.

What you've described is more than a split hair away from that, imo.

Done with the topic. Anyone who wants a last word, take it.

Here's the point you are missing, IMO.  This isn't a situation where the player waives a no trade clause and then can be dealt to whomever.  The player has to waive his no trade close for every different trade.  So, when they consummated the trade with Atlanta, they still had to get Anthony to approve the trade.  If there was no buy out, Anthony would have rejected the trade.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Woj wrote it as past tense. The deed was done.

Not as something that Melo still was in any way controlling.

What you've described is more than a split hair away from that, imo.

Done with the topic. Anyone who wants a last word, take it.

Then Woj misspoke because it is very possible he told OKC he would waive the clause but "waiving" the clause is an official act in the NBA that happens as part of validating the trade.

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

#BothPlayersPlayedHard

~lw3

[Buzzard]

17 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said:

#BothPlayersPlayedHard

~lw3

Yes it is done. The Cavs signing Love to an extension probably had a little to do with Phily not being able to offer enough to get Korver. It will be interesting to see if anyone chases Love or Korver later on; but I do think the asking price will be in the 1st round pick range for either.

A couple of 1st for Love ( or prospect and a 1st ) and one first for Korver.