Schlenk is not tanking! He’s Fishing!

[JTB]

Not to start an argument but I don’t understand how some can say or believe Schlenk will tank on purpose this upcoming year......

All it takes for a franchise like our hawks to go into full rebuild mode is one tanking season which has already been done. Let’s not act like marquee players ever wanted to truly come here cause that didn’t happen even during the playoff years.

So is it really that hard to be bad in Atlanta after you have already purposely tanked? Hell didn’t it seem tough to even get average players during free agency some years when we were a playoff team?....so really! Is it that hard for Schlenk to not hit on good free agents?...of course not he knew that he wasn’t going to be able to when he got here no matter the outcome of the season.

....so for me I don’t like to call these upcoming seasons tanking years cause that would imply that a gm could make a team better than it currently is and call me crazy but just like other recent gms we’ve had here in Atlanta fail at grabbing the better free agents, schlenk would have failed too even in a playoff year .

To me these aren’t tank years my friends they are fishing years. Schlenk reminds me of Ferry but smarter ! Truth is Ferry got lucky....had he knew or had any legitimate confidence in Sap and DMC he don’t sign those guys to 2 year contracts....so Schlenk is playing the same game Ferry played, hoping one of these no name pickups via trade or free agency hits it off (NOTE: I’m not calling milsap a no name but he wasn’t an all star until he came to Atlanta...if he was do you seriously believe Ferry would have been able to get him at the end of free agency that year?) and takes big strides meanwhile Schlenk is smart enough to keep the cap flexible for just in case reasons & we happen to get shocked like in 2015-2016 season (likely not to happen just using it as an example) so those players will not get away from us so easily.

I don’t believe for one second that this is a tank season or any upcoming seasons. This is a “fish season” .....IF (and it’s a big IF) this young team happens to play amazing and do the unthinkable schlenk is not going to tell this young squad to start tanking just so he can draft more young players with high picks.

if these young guys do great then it’s exactly what Schlenk ultimately wants! For young players to step it up and play great ala this past seasons Boston Celtics. ... He’s not expecting them to be all that great but in case they are he has built the cap to hold on to them unlike Ferry....so please those of you who keep saying schlenk is tanking on purpose please stop it! Ain’t no purposely losing shit going on with this franchise! This is reality so just face it and hope we become better very soon.

 

(sorry for the long read...thanks for taking the time )

[sturt]

^{1. Never apologize for word count.... the people who want to read, will read, and those who don't, won't.... it's not like you held a gun to anyone's head... and it's probably all the better for both sides if those who would get upset with word count don't take the time.}

2.

 

18 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t believe for one second that this is a tank season or any upcoming seasons. 

 

https://www.ajc.com/sports/hawks-have-league-worst-odds-win-2019-nba-title/nXd1p8UQWeeolT8vJCV2eI/

There's your objective voice.

[NBASupes]

No one is tanking this season for now. 

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

https://www.ajc.com/sports/hawks-have-league-worst-odds-win-2019-nba-title/nXd1p8UQWeeolT8vJCV2eI/

 

There's your objective voice.

How does that article correlate with tanking.  Those were just projected odds of winning a championship which may or may not prove to be true. Tanking is a deliberate attempt by an organization to lose games to win the draft lottery.

[KB21]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How does that article correlate with tanking.  Those were just projected odds of winning a championship which may or may not prove to be true. Tanking is a deliberate attempt by an organization to lose games to win the draft lottery.

Which is why this organization did not add any legitimate veteran talent this offseason and used their cap space to take on two bad contracts instead.

Also, don't try to diminish what Danny Ferry did during his time in Atlanta by trying to say Travis Schlenk is doing what he did only smarter.  Danny Ferry added players that can contribute to winning games.  Travis Schlenk has not added a single player that will help this team win.  Danny Ferry also did not bottom the organization out from a talent standpoint like Travis Schlenk did.  

[sturt]

Well, being precise, it DOES "correlate" with tanking, @Peoriabird.

But if you want to pin me down, no it does not "prove" tanking. Though that's not the verb you chose.

A stronger argument may have been that the odds laid out were prior to the draft, and a lot has happened since then.

But a lot has happened for other teams as well, and our roster has not appreciably improved in comparison to others.

[DrReality]

With GS with a dynasty in the making it’s going to be a coupe-few years until they give anyone one else a chance to win it?!.  And to build a sound team takes years like GS and it seems that’s the plan.  Not tanking just growing pains.  

[KB21]

I will guarantee you that if this team is outperforming their expectations at any point this season, moves will be made and things will be done to ensure that this team doesn't win enough to cost them draft position.

Of course, I feel this team has been designed to win no more than 23-24 games anyway.

[nathan2331]

I will guarantee you that if this team is outperforming their expectations at any point this season, moves will be made and things will be done to ensure that this team doesn't win enough to cost them draft position.

Of course, I feel this team has been designed to win no more than 23-24 games anyway.

This should be the expectation unless something unimaginable happens and we're on pace to win 60 games. Schlenk has done everything but say the words tank to signal his objectives for this team. If we're on pace to win 30 or more games and end up the 9th or 10th seed I expect us to trade Bazemore and Dedmon for whatever we can get.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

18 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I will guarantee you that if this team is outperforming their expectations at any point this season, moves will be made and things will be done to ensure that this team doesn't win enough to cost them draft position.

Of course, I feel this team has been designed to win no more than 23-24 games anyway.

 

This should be the expectation unless something unimaginable happens and we're on pace to win 60 games. Schlenk has done everything but say the words tank to signal his objectives for this team. If we're on pace to win 30 or more games and end up the 9th or 10th seed I expect us to trade Bazemore and Dedmon for whatever we can get.

...and therefore, Schlenk would further cement his status as one of the worst GM's in the NBA by doing that.  That would continue the building of a losing culture that is not conducive to player development, which should be a bigger focus at this point than losing games.  

[nathan2331]

...and therefore, Schlenk would further cement his status as one of the worst GM's in the NBA by doing that.  That would continue the building of a losing culture that is not conducive to player development, which should be a bigger focus at this point than losing games.  

Player development and losing games are not mutually exclusive. This shouldn't take 5 years. I don't think we'll need to lose past this season.

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I will guarantee you that if this team is outperforming their expectations at any point this season, moves will be made and things will be done to ensure that this team doesn't win enough to cost them draft position.

Of course, I feel this team has been designed to win no more than 23-24 games anyway.

 

This should be the expectation unless something unimaginable happens and we're on pace to win 60 games. Schlenk has done everything but say the words tank to signal his objectives for this team. If we're on pace to win 30 or more games and end up the 9th or 10th seed I expect us to trade Bazemore and Dedmon for whatever we can get.

That probably would depend on the degree to which either of those two are actually helping lead to that result, of course.

But in general, I concur with that... and support it, actually...

Once you've started down this path, I don't get the idea of getting half-hearted about it at this juncture. Go ahead and give yourself another solid shot at top talent in the next draft, and only then begin to turn the corner back toward contention.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

...and therefore, Schlenk would further cement his status as one of the worst GM's in the NBA by doing that.  That would continue the building of a losing culture that is not conducive to player development, which should be a bigger focus at this point than losing games.  

 

Player development and losing games are not mutually exclusive. This shouldn't take 5 years. I don't think we'll need to lose past this season.

Player development does not happen in situations where you are intentionally losing.  Name me a team that went this route and did not take at least 5 years.

[AHF]

I have no doubt that Schlenk designers this team to lose games and develop young talent.  He chose to forego Denver’s first round pick to add Lin as a mentor for development.  He chose to use the cap space on future assets rather than ones that would improve the W/L record this season.  So I think these are twin goals of the GM.  The team is sufficiently limited that the coaches and players will give it their all.

As an aside, Ferry offered 3 year deals to both DMC and Sap and both declined because they wanted to be FAs again faster.

[KB21]

Just now, sturt said:

That probably would depend on the degree to which either of those two are actually helping lead to that result, of course.

But in general, I concur with that... and support it, actually...

Once you've started down this path, I don't get the idea of getting half-hearted about it at this juncture. Go ahead and give yourself another solid shot at top talent in the next draft, and only then begin to turn the corner back toward contention.

It doesn't work that way though.  By tanking this year, you are also automatically giving up on next year and likely the year after that.  You don't just flip a switch and decide to be a contender when you feel like  you have enough talent in place.  Winning in the NBA is too hard, and the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to go from being a very bad team to being a good team.  

So, you tank this year and add that top talent next year.  Well guess what, you are adding that top talent to a team that may be expected to win 25-28 games next year, putting him into a situation that is not conducive towards developing his talent and skill level.  So, now you are adding yet another high draft pick into a situation that isn't conducive to player development.

[nathan2331]

Player development does not happen in situations where you are intentionally losing.  Name me a team that went this route and did not take at least 5 years.

The Sonics/Thunder

[JTB]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

I will guarantee you that if this team is outperforming their expectations at any point this season, moves will be made and things will be done to ensure that this team doesn't win enough to cost them draft position.

Of course, I feel this team has been designed to win no more than 23-24 games anyway.

That does not make sense! As young as this team is if they actually perform well it makes no sense to trade away young players just to add more unproven young players via draft so I do not believe that.

and I’m not diminishing Ferry but that’s the truth he got lucky while he was in his search of trying to stay flexible like schlenk is doing...simple as that .

[JTB]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

I have no doubt that Schlenk designers this team to lose games and develop young talent.  He chose to forego Denver’s first round pick to add Lin as a mentor for development.  He chose to use the cap space on future assets rather than ones that would improve the W/L record this season.  So I think these are twin goals of the GM.  The team is sufficiently limited that the coaches and players will give it their all.

As an aside, Ferry offered 3 year deals to both DMC and Sap and both declined because they wanted to be FAs again faster.

I don’t believe schlenk had much of a choice in free agency like many seem to think. Either way it goes we were going to be a bad team no matter what trade you thought was best.

all I’m saying in the grand scheme of things IF we were to get shocked and this hawks team actually for some odd reason showed out it would not make sense for schlenk to run out these young guys if they are playing well just to bring in more young guys via draft.

we are already one of the youngest teams in the nba and now we have some veteran presence on the roster with Lin, VC, Baze, Dedmon, Plumlee surrounded around extremely young players so if these young guys do well I believe that’s what schlenk prefers. For an extremely young team to perform well.....What sense does it make for schlenk to trade young players  off just to bring in more young players?  ....I don’t think he’s tanking , he’s fishing for hope in the great big pond of the nba

[JTB]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

It doesn't work that way though.  By tanking this year, you are also automatically giving up on next year and likely the year after that.  You don't just flip a switch and decide to be a contender when you feel like  you have enough talent in place.  Winning in the NBA is too hard, and the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to go from being a very bad team to being a good team.  

So, you tank this year and add that top talent next year.  Well guess what, you are adding that top talent to a team that may be expected to win 25-28 games next year, putting him into a situation that is not conducive towards developing his talent and skill level.  So, now you are adding yet another high draft pick into a situation that isn't conducive to player development.

Thanks for that....it brings me to my point that Schlenk isn’t tanking. The tank part was done, from here on out until we are good enough to make the playoffs again there’s no tanking on purpose. One tank year for a franchise like the hawks is enough to keep us as a bad team until the young players step it up.

schlenk isn’t going to do anything spectacular with all this cap space we have in the upcoming years. Not necessarily because he don’t want to but because he can’t and won’t be able to make franchise changing moves until this team is respected again among players. Good Players don’t see Atlanta as a destination to be but that’s not schlenks fault it was like that before he got here

[gurpilo]

There has been a change, positive change. Now we are adding players that could be on other rosters like Anderson, Len, Lin... Last years we signed guys noone else would have signed and they performed well but there was better talent out there.

Now we are adding good young players like Len, giving them the opportunity to shine. We are adding talent and suddenly we are deep.

Lin/Young/Hamilton

Baze/Huerter/Dorsey

Prince/Anderson/Bembry

Collins/Spellman/Poythress

Dedmon/Len/Plumlee

Suddenly our 2nd unit looks the best we have had in 10 years in terms of young talent and the 3rd unit has players that have played on NBA for some seasons. We are adding talent, giving opportunities to young players to shine and establish as valuable pieces for the future. This is the right way to go, that does not mean we are going to playoffs but we are not set to lose 65 games. This team can exceed expectationa and if Lin, Anderson and Len stay healthy I could see this team winning 32-40 games. I don't think is happenning because I think they would trade Baze and Dedmon if that happen but eventually we could.

We will end with a top 5 and top 14 pick next year, a wing and a Center, Barrett and Gafford is my dream and we will be loaded with talent to make a run to tue playoffs with a new coach.