Schlenk is not tanking! He’s Fishing!

[Royjr9]

We aren’t actively tanking but we’re are not avoiding it either. Lin was bought in to mentor and be a backup to trey anybody thinking he is the long term answer is delusional. he may start some games but the team should want him taking his lumps so to speak. This will be Young’s show going forward. Len has been brought in to play the Dedmon role once Dedmon is moved as he’s a serviceable rotation player on a decent contract. We will lose games simply because of youth but Lin and carter can be voices of calm to help the youth on this team ride what will be a roller coaster season for them there will be lows and highs for this team. I don’t think they approach thirty wins but I don’t think we’ll lose 70 plus either.  Also I doubt Schlenk hit on all three picks he prolly hit on one or two a(although hitting on all three would be impressive) so it’s still a work in progress. Also this team is not thinking about playoffs this season. It’s a long play but like someone mentioned earlier if the youth is carrying the team to victories then great ( prolly not likely though) but there development won’t take a backseat to  chasing victories if that makes sense. 

[KB21]

Player development will take a back seat to chasing losses though.  

[DBac]

"Fishing eh? Yeah lets go with that..." -Schlenk probably

[JTB]

10 minutes ago, DBac said:

"Fishing eh? Yeah lets go with that..." -Schlenk probably

Whatever you want to call it but it’s not tanking. We are the hawks you don’t have to tank on purpose for multiple seasons to look unattractive to good free agents .....we were already unattractive to good free agents ! All we had to do is get rid of the vets that was helping us make the playoffs and tank for 1 season...and that one season of tanking on purpose is all that  you need for our hawks to start losing seasons consistently in order to get High draft picks .

schlenk isn’t tanking, he’s just fishing or cruising...whatever you want to use.

[KB21]

25 minutes ago, JTB said:

Whatever you want to call it but it’s not tanking. We are the hawks you don’t have to tank on purpose for multiple seasons to look unattractive to good free agents .....we were already unattractive to good free agents ! All we had to do is get rid of the vets that was helping us make the playoffs and tank for 1 season...and that one season of tanking on purpose is all that  you need for our hawks to start losing seasons consistently in order to get High draft picks .

schlenk isn’t tanking, he’s just fishing or cruising...whatever you want to use.

He is making no effort to field a competitive team.  This is the second tank season.  

[Royjr9]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Player development will take a back seat to chasing losses though.  

No losses will come as a result of player development.  

[Jungle Jack]

In regards to tanking, one thing that I do think will make a difference is the number of teams likewise going down the "player development" path.  Considering the number, I do think the turnaround will be quicker for some teams if for no other reason than the law of averages.

 

I am personally hoping that this is our last year in the gutter.  Tough to see us ranked 30th (out of of course 30) in ESPN's Power Rankings.  More so that we are rated lower than that paragon of stability the Kings.  We have a sporting chance of conveying the Cavs pick now that Love has been resigned and Sexson looks like a keeper thus far.  Ditto for the Mavs pick.

 

With this many picks, even if we are not in a position after the lottery to draft Barrett, we certainly should have the ammunition to get there.  Should also mean that if we somehow are competitive there will be less impetus to not do everything possible to compete.

[gurpilo]

hace 8 horas, KB21 dijo:

He is making no effort to field a competitive team.  This is the second tank season.  

Len, Lin, Anderson are signings that will keep us competitive, we have a better team than last year and probably a better starting 5 just due to Collins and Prince development, I don't think we lose so much by replacing Dennis with Lin

[sturt]

8 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

Len, Lin, Anderson are signings that will keep us competitive, we have a better team than last year and probably a better starting 5 just due to Collins and Prince development, I don't think we lose so much by replacing Dennis with Lin

Um. I'm having trouble remembering when Len, Lin, or Anderson been forces that helped keep their teams competitive?

Two of them, as far as i recall... never. The other... long ago... and he's not expected to be healthy to start the season (again).

I will grant you the other part.... I agree, it's conceivable we could be talking this time next year about Prince and Collins as budding ASG candidates.

[nathan2331]

Um. I'm having trouble remembering when Len, Lin, or Anderson been forces that helped keep their teams competitive?

Two of them, as far as i recall... never. The other... long ago... and he's not expected to be healthy to start the season (again).

Competitive doesn't mean we'll win a lot of games, just that they'll make the losses respectable. It's s lot different losing 50 games and being blown out in the majority of them.

[Gray Mule]

Yep.  Hawks are rated #30.  That's the bottom of the entire NBA.  Everyone is better than Atlanta.

To me, this means that any game that this Hawk should happen to win must be considered an upset!  One thing about being on the bottom, there is only one direction we can go  - UP!!  Tank!  Tank!  Tank!  Boy!  I can't wait for our first upset win!  Regardless of who we happen to make our first, think about how bad that team will feel.  Gasp!  Oh no!  We lost to that lowly G league team from Atlanta!

Our terrible tank team from last season is back.  Jeremy is replacing Dennis.  Otherwise, we're back, as starters.  Then, we look at our bench.  Filled with all the new guys.  Justin, Alex and Vince with NBA experience and three green rookies.  Omari, Kevin ad Trae join the three experienced new Hawks and the remainder of the returning Hawks.  They will be sent out onto the floor by our rookie, green as grass, head coach, Lloyd Pierce.

The Hawks have been weighed on the scales of public opinion and found wanting.  They have reasons to believe that we will be a poor NBA team.  Just remember, when they rated us #30, that means that everyone is considered better than us.  Talk about an inferior complex, we qualify!

Now, with all this, to me, every victory this upcoming season will be extra sweet.  They may be few and far between, but I plan to savor each and every one.  "Take that, you big bully!" every time we win !!

[Buzzard]

5 minutes ago, sturt said:

I will grant you the other part.... I agree, it's conceivable we could be talking this time next year about Prince and Collins as budding ASG candidates.

So you are saying not by December of this season, OK. It is incremental improvements to start with since we did not sign a game changing free agent; and our team is so young.

1-Prince and Collins improvement this year. I think this is a given improvement.

2-Better rebounding and D by subtracting Moose and regulating Plumlee to 3rd or 4th in our big man rotation. I think this improvement is a given. Len and Spellman is better rebounding and D than Plumlee and Moose.

3-Lin and Trae over the inefficient Dennis we had last season. This could be anywhere from a toss up to a substantial improvement,

I honestly have a hard seeing where we got worse at.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, nathan2331 said:

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Um. I'm having trouble remembering when Len, Lin, or Anderson been forces that helped keep their teams competitive?

Two of them, as far as i recall... never. The other... long ago... and he's not expected to be healthy to start the season (again).

 

Competitive doesn't mean we'll win a lot of games, just that they'll make the losses respectable. It's s lot different losing 50 games and being blown out in the majority of them.

Um. Still. Same point. What history is there to say those three players are going to "make the losses respectable"...?

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Yep.  Hawks are rated #30.  That's the bottom of the entire NBA.  Everyone is better than Atlanta.

To me, this means that any game that this Hawk should happen to win must be considered an upset!  One thing about being on the bottom, there is only one direction we can go  - UP!!  Tank!  Tank!  Tank!  Boy!  I can't wait for our first upset win!  Regardless of who we happen to make our first, think about how bad that team will feel.  Gasp!  Oh no!  We lost to that lowly G league team from Atlanta!

Our terrible tank team from last season is back.  Jeremy is replacing Dennis.  Otherwise, we're back, as starters.  Then, we look at our bench.  Filled with all the new guys.  Justin, Alex and Vince with NBA experience and three green rookies.  Omari, Kevin ad Trae join the three experienced new Hawks and the remainder of the returning Hawks.  They will be sent out onto the floor by our rookie, green as grass, head coach, Lloyd Pierce.

The Hawks have been weighed on the scales of public opinion and found wanting.  They have reasons to believe that we will be a poor NBA team.  Just remember, when they rated us #30, that means that everyone is considered better than us.  Talk about an inferior complex, we qualify!

Now, with all this, to me, every victory this upcoming season will be extra sweet.  They may be few and far between, but I plan to savor each and every one.  "Take that, you big bully!" every time we win !!

When you can't expect winning, to me anyway, you just focus on whatever other positives there are to be had.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

So you are saying not by December of this season, OK. It is incremental improvements to start with since we did not sign a game changing free agent; and our team is so young.

1-Prince and Collins improvement this year. I think this is a given improvement.

2-Better rebounding and D by subtracting Moose and regulating Plumlee to 3rd or 4th in our big man rotation. I think this improvement is a given. Len and Spellman is better rebounding and D than Plumlee and Moose.

3-Lin and Trae over the inefficient Dennis we had last season. This could be anywhere from a toss up to a substantial improvement,

I honestly have a hard seeing where we got worse at.

The only one of those I feel any confidence in saying is #1.

I don't presume anything about rookies ever. The NBA re-drafts are littered with all kinds of examples of friggin lottery picks (let alone the rest of the drafts) that didn't turn out to be even first rounders in retrospect. L-i-t-t-e-r-e-d littered.

And I certainly don't presume anything about a player who has hardly ever stayed on the court for more than half a season.

And and, journeymen though they may have been, Ily and Belinelli were factors in many if not most of our wins as I recall.

I honestly have a hard time seeing where we can with any certainty we've done anything more than tread water, if that even.

[High5]

16 minutes ago, sturt said:

I don't presume anything about rookies ever. The NBA re-drafts are littered with all kinds of examples of friggin lottery picks (let alone the rest of the drafts) that didn't turn out to be even first rounders in retrospect. L-i-t-t-e-r-e-d littered.

You're in another thread writing off Spellman's chance to get minutes as a rookie because he was the 30th pick. Just sayin'...

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, High5 said:

You're in another thread writing off Spellman's chance to get minutes as a rookie because he was the 30th pick. Just sayin'...

His point is fair on both threads, though.  Here he says there is uncertainty around whether a pick hits even when it is as high as a lottery pick.  In the other thread, he says the 30th pick has a notably lower probability of hitting than a high pick.  Both statements are true and neither rule out whether any or all of our guys can succeed.

[High5]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

His point is fair on both threads, though.  Here he says there is uncertainty around whether a pick hits even when it is as high as a lottery pick.  In the other thread, he says the 30th pick has a notably lower probability of hitting than a high pick.  Both statements are true and neither rule out whether any or all of our guys can succeed.

The definition of presume: "suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability"

Direct quote from sturt: "I don't presume anything about rookies ever."

That was my point. I'm not saying he's wrong even though I may disagree (on Spellman at least). 

[gurpilo]

hace 2 horas, sturt dijo:

Um. I'm having trouble remembering when Len, Lin, or Anderson been forces that helped keep their teams competitive?

Two of them, as far as i recall... never. The other... long ago... and he's not expected to be healthy to start the season (again).

I will grant you the other part.... I agree, it's conceivable we could be talking this time next year about Prince and Collins as budding ASG candidates.

Len per 36 stats are better on evey category than Dedmon and everybody agreed Dedmon was a good signing, only stat Dedmon has a small advantage is FG% 0,590vs 0,560 fist time we have 2 Centers with size that can start. Pairing him with a good PNR PG as Lin or Young is going to do wonders for him.

Anderson is Baze 2.0 and has the size to guard SF, huge upgrade at backup SF over Babbit, Brussino or whoever. He did a good job at Dallas and play some good ball at Phily, he is going to surprise a lot of guys here.

Lin if he can stay healthy can be a good PG, the duo Young\Lin is an upgrade on my mind.

I said before, our 2nd unit can win 10 games for us this year.

Young/Huerter/Anderson/Spellman/Len is the best 2nd lineup we have had in years.

[sturt]

32 minutes ago, High5 said:

The definition of presume: "suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability"

Direct quote from sturt: "I don't presume anything about rookies ever."

That was my point. I'm not saying he's wrong even though I may disagree (on Spellman at least). 

In context, in that quote, I was responding to the seeming assertion that we can presume Young/Lin are going to be better than Dennis.

History teaches us to be wary at least until we have some actual NBA games as actual data that lead to a conclusion about any particular player.

And so, just to harmonize the two threads in this way... conventionally-speaking, we should have higher expectations of a player's probability of success if he's drafted #5 over if he's drafted #30... so while I believe I have reason to presume one is more likely to experience success than the other, I leave it at likelihood... I try not to talk in terms of what "will" happen, though I confess there may be some times when I dance on a fine line there.

Thus... it is not likely, in my mind, that Spellman is going to be a reliable back-up to Collins that we can plug-in from Game 1. It is an open question, as well, whether Young will become a reliable starter that we can plug-in from Game 1.

One more thing... I'm not just saying it... I am bullish on both Young and Spellman.

It appears, though, that some are well beyond my bullishness, and pretty much ready to presume those two already have established themselves... known-quantities and draft pick successes.