What is Doing a Rebuild Right... Anyway??

[Diesel]

I hear a whole lot of people talk about us rebuilding this team right.   What exactly does that mean?

We've had a fire sale that leads to Lottery picks.   That's what every new GM does. 

Did anyone think that the 76ers were rebuilding the team right when their GM was saying trust the process?

How about the OK Thunder?  They firesaled and got Durant, Westbrook, and Harden.   Wasn't they rebuilding right?  What did they get?

It's easy to point to the Warriors but they had some timely acquisitions that made a world of difference.   Namely Iguodala.   I don't think they are what they are without him. 

IF we are rebuilding right... then so are the Knicks. 

 

[bleachkit]

All three of those teams did a good with their rebuilds. You need some luck too though.

[capstone21]

Yes, the knicks are rebuilding 

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

I hear a whole lot of people talk about us rebuilding this team right.   What exactly does that mean?

We've had a fire sale that leads to Lottery picks.   That's what every new GM does. 

Did anyone think that the 76ers were rebuilding the team right when their GM was saying trust the process?

How about the OK Thunder?  They firesaled and got Durant, Westbrook, and Harden.   Wasn't they rebuilding right?  What did they get?

It's easy to point to the Warriors but they had some timely acquisitions that made a world of difference.   Namely Iguodala.   I don't think they are what they are without him. 

IF we are rebuilding right... then so are the Knicks. 

 

I always say the tear down is easy, the build up takes hard work, patience and a whole lot of luck.

Scouting and hitting on draft picks matter. Not bungling your capspace by overpaying mid level guys matter, developing players matter, moving on from players when they don't fit what you do matter, timely signing of the right free agents. There is no one way.

Hawks didn't rebuild the way the Sixers did - we still have vets to help the draft picks. I'd like to add, if Embiid was healthy from day 1 I think the Philly process may have been different.

OKC had a magnificent run with their drafted players 9 of last 10 years in the playoffs contenders, 1 finals, 3 W. Conf finals apoearance.

Warriors upswing started with the trade of Bogut for Monte Ellis which was un Curry's 3rd year. They still had a bunch of young guys in Batnes, Klay and Greene showing they could win games before Iggy joined them the next year.

The Knicks are rebuilding, that's it.

[NBASupes]

Signing the right guys. 

Hitting home runs with top 10 picks 

Hitting home runs outside of the lottery 

Creating a system 

All of the pieces fit

OKC rebuild was elite which I hope ours is too. 

They had a 50 win team in Westbrook 2nd year, Durant 3rd and Harden rookie season.

By Harden 3rd season, they went to the NBA finals and won Game 1 in OKC. 

Then the next year they traded away Harden because of the salary cap restrictions at the time and they didn't have that type of money which became available during the next CBA. 

They still had a ton of success and if it wasn't for the cap spike. They could have landed KD, Horford, to go with Sabonis, Dipo and Westbrook. 

That's four all stars. They could have won some titles. 

OKC got screwed by the cap.... Each time. 

They did things right. Hit home runs at the time outside of the lottery. 

Hit home runs with their top 10 picks. 

Acquired the right guys in FA and trades. The only top ten pick they lost on was Jeff Green at that time.

Edited August 30, 2019 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

Our rebuild is shaping up to be the best with OKC

Trae/Reddish/Hunter all have ample potential, especially Reddish

Huerter and Collins were steals outside of the lottery. 

Is Bruno the steal of the 2nd round? Is he our Nick Collison

Reggie Jackson was a beast for them as a 6th man.

Obviously they made moves for Thabo, Perk, Pargo, and at one point Fisher. 

 

Durant/Reddish

Westbrook/Trae

Harden/Hunter

Collins/Ibaka

Kev/Thabo

Bruno/Collison

Len/Perk

Parker/Reggie Jackson

 

While we don't have the athletes, we got the shooting skills.

Edited August 30, 2019 by NBASupes

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Our rebuild is shaping up to be the best with OKC

Trae/Reddish/Hunter all have ample potential, especially Reddish

Huerter and Collins were steals outside of the lottery. 

Is Bruno the steal of the 2nd round? Is he our Nick Collison

Reggie Jackson was a beast for them as a 6th man.

Obviously they made moves for Thabo, Perk, Pargo, and at one point Fisher. 

 

Durant/Reddish

Westbrook/Trae

Harden/Hunter

Collins/Ibaka

Kev/Thabo

Bruno/Collison

Len/Perk

Parker/Reggie Jackson

 

While we don't have the athletes, we got the shooting skills.

Ya I agree with the talent level, OKC seems to be the best comparison. Or what the Twolves could have been throughout the years.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya I agree with the talent level, OKC seems to be the best comparison. Or what the Twolves could have been throughout the years.  

Wolves traded for most of their top 10 pick players. 

Wiggins and Bennett. 

Other than that,

Towns was a home run 

Dunn was a clear strikeout.

Lauri pick was traded before the draft for Butler. That included Lavine which was a home run outside of the top 10. 

They traded #19 for Adreian Payne - Kevin Huerter 

You can say they really lost every trade really really bad. 

The only trade they did decent in was the Jimmy Butler trade.

Robert Covington can help them win, Saric helped get them Culver. 

But the Bulls trade was a major lost. 

Lauri and LaVine could help them more than whatever else they got. 

Also striking out in the top 5 of the draft is a killer. 

The Kevin Love trade just wasn't that good. Bennett was an epic bust and Wiggins was fool's gold. 

They are hoping Culver is a big hit and possibly a home run 

They are hoping the same with Okogie.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Unfortunately, "rebuilding right" is based on results, not effort.  If Deandre and Cam doesn't work out, Schlenk will look foolish even knowing nobody can predict the future.  People criticized the Sixers "trust the process", decade-long rebuild until they drafted Simmons and he & Embiid became studs.  Honestly, I don't think anybody knows 100% how to build a contender... you just make the best of your current situation and take advantage of opportunities.

[NBASupes]

The Flip Saunders era

 

The era had one season of crazy offensive gibberish. I remember the explosive first or second quarters that caused the opponent to curl into a corner and wait it out. Then just as quickly as it came it would go and seemingly the whole team's offense was a steaming pile of horse droppings every third quarter, except for Lavine. There was never a hint a defense, just the fleeting moments of high flying offense. That was the pinnacle that had everyone raving about a future to come from it.

Flip's busy 2.5 year return:

June 27, 2013: Drafted Trey Burke, Andre Roberson, Lorenzo Brown, Bojan Dubljević
- Trade Trey Burke to the Utah Jazz for Gorgui Dieng and Shabazz Muhammad.

June 27, 2013: Trade Malcolm Lee/Andre Roberson to GSW for cash and 2014 2nd

July 11, 2013: Trade Luke Ridnour/2014 2nd to Bucks for Kevin Martin and cash

July 2013: Signed Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger, Shabazz Muhammad, Ronny Turiaf

Nov. 2013: Trade Derrick Williams to Kings for Luc Mbah a Moute

April 2014: Signed Othyus Jeffers to a contract for the rest of the season

June 26, 2014: Drafted Zach LaVine, Glenn Robinson III, Markel Brown, Alessandro Gentile

June 27, 2014: Trade Markel Brown to the Brooklyn Nets for cash

July 2014: Sign Zach LaVine, Robbie Hummel. Mo Williams

August 14: Trade Luc Mbah a Moute, Alexey Shved to 76ers, Kevin Love to Cavaliers for Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, Thaddeus Young 

September 2014: Sign Glenn Robinson III, Brady Heslip, Kyrylo Fesenko.

November 2014: Sign eff Adrien

December 19, 2014: Trade Ronny Turiaf to the Philadelphia 76ers; Corey Brewer to the Houston Rockets for cash, a 2015 2nd and 2016 2nd

January 2015: Sign Miroslav Raduljica/Lorenzo Brown to 10-day contracts

February 10, 2015: Trade Troy Daniels, Mo Williams and cash to Hornets for Gary Neal and a 2019 2nd (Jaylen Nowell)

February 10, 2015: Trade a 2018 FRP (Kevin Huerter) to Hawks for Adreian Payne.

February 19, 2015: Trade Thaddeus Young to Nets for KG, also signed Lorenzo Brown.

March 2015: Signed Sean Kilpatrick to 10-day contract

April 2015: Signed Arinze Onuaku

June 25, 2015: 
-Drafted Karl-Anthony Towns, (Cedi Osman, Rakeem Christmas)
-Trade a 2015 2nd (Rakeem Christmas), 2015 2nd (Cedi Osman) and a 2019 2nd (Justin James) to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Tyus Jones

July 7, 2015: Signed Tyus Jones, Karl-Anthony Towns to multi-year deals

July 11, 2015: Signed Kevin Garnett to multi-year (2yr for 16.5?)

July 11, 2015: Trade Chase Budinger to Pacers for Damjan Rudež

July 13, 2015: Signed Nemanja Bjelica to multi-year 

August 2015: Signed Andre Miller, Tayshaun Prince.

September 11, 2015: Appointed Mitchell Head Coach, Signed Kleon Penn 

September 17, 2015: Signed Nick Wiggins. / (Waived October 24, 2015)

* With the trading away of Bojan Dubljević's rights this year and the later drafting of Nowell with the Hornets/Miami pick from a 2015 trade, correct me if wrong but it seems most of these transactions have been wrapped up. Players Dieng, Wiggins, Towns, and now Nowell remain from the era's transactions. So, maybe the rebuild still lives on.

[Spud2nique]

30 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Wolves traded for most of their top 10 pick players. 

Wiggins and Bennett. 

Other than that,

Towns was a home run 

Dunn was a clear strikeout.

Lauri pick was traded before the draft for Butler. That included Lavine which was a home run outside of the top 10. 

They traded #19 for Adreian Payne - Kevin Huerter 

You can say they really lost every trade really really bad. 

The only trade they did decent in was the Jimmy Butler trade.

Robert Covington can help them win, Saric helped get them Culver. 

But the Bulls trade was a major lost. 

Lauri and LaVine could help them more than whatever else they got. 

Also striking out in the top 5 of the draft is a killer. 

The Kevin Love trade just wasn't that good. Bennett was an epic bust and Wiggins was fool's gold. 

They are hoping Culver is a big hit and possibly a home run 

They are hoping the same with Okogie.

And they missed twice on Scurry.

[Gray Mule]

WHAT IS REBUILDING AND DOING IT RIGHT?

Tearing down.  Not just getting rid of players.  Swap of players for future assets.  Letting their contract run it's course.  You end up without a huge $$$ contract that drains your cap space.

Being extremely lucky or good in the draft.  Having a picture in your mind about how the finished product should look and draft with this in mind.  Pick players that are coachable and are solid citizens.  Hopefully, as you draft these players, they fit together like pieces of a picture puzzle.

Have some solid, veteran players who are willing and able to lead the young players and set a good example for them, both to play by and to live by.  Building a solid foundation that will last and stand up under the ravages of time.

Have an ownership, GM and head coach all on the same page.  No major fighting and disagreements among them.  All be willing to learn from their own mistakes and those of others.  Being willing to admit when they go wrong.

We all know, from examining the past records of other NBA teams that things can and do go wrong.  Be ready to roll with all these things and hope and trust that more things go right than go wrong.

Finally, knowing that everyone wants to win RIGHT NOW, be willing to not jump too soon for that elusive, high priced free agent that might guarantee a few more wins but wouldn't push the team to the championship.

[NBASupes]

38 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And they missed twice on Scurry.

That was Kahn, one of the worst GMs in NBA history. Right there with Budcox

[Diesel]

On 8/30/2019 at 1:34 AM, capstone21 said:

Yes, the knicks are rebuilding 

Yeah but are the Knicks rebuilding "the right way"?

[gurpilo]

We need to play our young guys, Young, Huerter, Hunter, Collins and Reddish need to hit the 30 mpg this season. Bruno needs to play 20 mpg, that should be the goal this season. All in an improvement environment lead by Trae with his stellar play that makes things easier for the rest. Collins should fly around the rim and play sligthly better this season, Huerter, Reddish and Hunter will have his shots from 3 and will help on defense and ball handling. Target is for all of them to play, contribute and improve. All are young players and the goal is to improve. That is what is rebuilding on a right way. They will make mistakes as other rookies and those mistakes will cost wins but winning is still not the target. That is why although I think we will improve the number of wins we will not make the playoffs.

Next season we will have 2 picks on the lottery, we draft a C and a backup PG and we are set going forward.

Edited August 31, 2019 by gurpilo

[Diesel]

On 8/30/2019 at 8:24 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

I always say the tear down is easy, the build up takes hard work, patience and a whole lot of luck.

Scouting and hitting on draft picks matter. Not bungling your capspace by overpaying mid level guys matter, developing players matter, moving on from players when they don't fit what you do matter, timely signing of the right free agents. There is no one way.

Hawks didn't rebuild the way the Sixers did - we still have vets to help the draft picks. I'd like to add, if Embiid was healthy from day 1 I think the Philly process may have been different.

OKC had a magnificent run with their drafted players 9 of last 10 years in the playoffs contenders, 1 finals, 3 W. Conf finals apoearance.

Warriors upswing started with the trade of Bogut for Monte Ellis which was un Curry's 3rd year. They still had a bunch of young guys in Batnes, Klay and Greene showing they could win games before Iggy joined them the next year.

The Knicks are rebuilding, that's it.

I agree.. You need a lot.   People want to stop at the firesale and think that we're doing it right.   The firesale ...to me... is the minimum.   A blind GM can complete a firesale.  The hard part is building a team with good chemistry and managing the money.   If you can get a superstar in the midst... that's even better.  

Trading Vlade for Kobe and then using the savings to sign Shaq is one of the most awesome GM offseasons ever. 

I brought up OKC because they were good enough to manage the firesale.  Good enough to make awesome picks (two were forced) but they bungled contracts and then ended up picking Ibaka over Harden???  That's not the sign of a great GM.   Ferry and Budcott did the same thing except they were better at FAcy and couldn't draft worth a hee hoo.  Then they bungled the contracts and traded 1st rounders for likes on facebook.

You mentioned Embiid's health.  They chose Embiid knowing he couldn't play.   After that they chose Simmons.   Those two guys didn't play their first year.  It allowed Philly to stay bad enough to get another #1.   You ask though.. what would they be with Jayson Tatum?

Finally.. IGGY was their first championship MVP.   And was worthy of it.  Without Iggy and Bogut... the Warriors would have been entertaining but not winners. 

 

 

 

[Diesel]

It's too early to evaluate any of these players.   Not even Trae or Collins. 

Right now, the key is chemistry. 

it seems like there is a tendency here to say because we need this player to be great then he is great.   It doesn't work that way. We know nothing about the new draft picks against pro talent.  And as far as Trae and Huerter are concerned, teams are going to have a complete scouting report on them now. Love em... but let's not say they are great because we need them to be. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

It's too early to evaluate any of these players.   Not even Trae or Collins. 

Right now, the key is chemistry. 

it seems like there is a tendency here to say because we need this player to be great then he is great.   It doesn't work that way. We know nothing about the new draft picks against pro talent.  And as far as Trae and Huerter are concerned, teams are going to have a complete scouting report on them now. Love em... but let's not say they are great because we need them to be. 

For Kevin, that's a big deal. For Trae, not at all. Teams threw the kitchen sink at him as soon as the season started. Now some teams still avoid reading the scouting report but teams were ready for Trae. 

 

 

[JTB]

I think there’s a misconception about successful rebuilding!...I get it the ultimate goal is to win a championship no doubt but the real goal is building the contender that COULD win it all!....if they don’t end up winning it all like a few of the teams mentioned in this thread that doesn’t mean to me that the “rebuilding process” failed.

i think it’s silly and unfair to look at a rebuild that ended up being a contending team for years but didn’t win it all and say “where has it got them” . It’s very tough to win championships in the nba and it’s just as tough to actually build the contender and put them in position to win those championships!

no doubt I want to see Atlanta win an nba championship while I’m still on this earth but even if they don’t at the very least I want to see a consistent contending team at the end of the day! If schelenk gives me that I’m at least  70% satisfied cause I know building a contending team is no walk in the park ! Especially in the nba of all major sports in the USA.

 

if you keep a consistent contender for a number of years. There’s always a chance every season that a championship could be won. But even being a contender is so hard to do! Trust me if being a contender was so simple most franchises  in the nba would have a championship by now.

[Thomas]

Gonna be honest here, I refuse to take the D-train Matrix red pill and be awakened to the constant "what if" pessimistic path to glory. If I did that...several decades ago Doctor J., David Thompson and the Human Eraser would have all been Hawks for several runs at it and yet we most likely still would not have a ring as of yet. Very happy with the FO we have right now.