Bazemore was ready to leave the Hawks

[Wurider05]

f*** Bazemore!!! he should have took comfort in all that money he was making on that bad contract GM Bud gave him. 

[Atlantaholic]

Fans share his sentiments. 

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Fans share his sentiments. 

I thought the fans were pretty enthused about the way the Hawks played the second half of the season last year.  Don't think Baze shared that perspective based on the quotes above.

[macdaddy]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't understand and probably don't want to know what you're talking about.

Maybe i don't understand your point.  You said players in their prime won't want to play for the Hawks while we are rebuilding / "losing" and then sighted Len and Parker as players we have who are in their prime.  Who both just came to this losing situation as free agents.

[Peoriabird]

13 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Maybe i don't understand your point.  You said players in their prime won't want to play for the Hawks while we are rebuilding / "losing" and then sighted Len and Parker as players we have who are in their prime.  Who both just came to this losing situation as free agents.

When did I say that?  I said that I was concerned about Trae and John starting to get discouraged with being in a losing situation.  How that is related to Len and Parker I don't know.  Trae and john will be highly sought after as free agent therefore will have options...Nobody wanted Len and Parker.  So for the record...I did not make the statement that players in their prime would not come to Atlanta because that makes no sense.  Of course Malcolm Delaney will come to the Hawks in his prime.  I think you are just deliberately confusing what I am saying.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't think John will be much better than he is now.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What are the expectations of John?  25/14?  He probably will average 19/9 for his career which is an all star career!

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

When did I say that?  I said that I was concerned about Trae and John starting to get discouraged with being in a losing situation.  How that is related to Len and Parker I don't know.  Trae and john will be highly sought after as free agent therefore will have options...Nobody wanted Len and Parker.  So for the record...I did not make the statement that players in their prime would not come to Atlanta because that makes no sense.  Of course Malcolm Delaney will come to the Hawks in his prime.  I think you are just deliberately confusing what I am saying.

This is what triggered the conversation:

21 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I keep telling y'all that players don't think like fans!  Players are playing to win not for draft picks.  That's why I worry about our current players.  Dennis thought the same thing...I think most players would say "Why would I waste my prime years playing on a loser"?

 

[High5]

56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What are the expectations of John?  25/14?  He probably will average 19/9 for his career which is an all star career!

He could average 19/9 every season and still become a much better player. KG was the best player on a championship team while averaging 19/9. The two are miles part right now.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is what triggered the conversation:

 

That was a quote from Dennis...Oh God I give up!

[macdaddy]

Quote

That's why I worry about our current players.  Dennis thought the same thing...I think most players would say "Why would I waste my prime years playing on a loser"?

Quote

I think John, Bembry and Parker are in their prime and Trae is entering his prime.  Len might be at his peak.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth and obviously i didn't understand your point.  Above you mentioned that players think "why would i wast my prime years playing on a loser"  someone pointed out that we don't have any players in their prime years and you made a list that included Len and Parker.  

As you said I think we are talking about different things.  My only point is that not everyone thinks playing on a team that is rebuilding is bad.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

20 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

What are the expectations of John?  25/14?  He probably will average 19/9 for his career which is an all star career!

If he averages 19 and 9 for his career, his peak will probably be somewhere around 25 ppg and 11 rebs, if not higher.

I personally don't like the way John is used in this offense. He has many more goodies in his bag, than what LP showcases.  For a guy who was as dominant of a post scorer he was in college, he hardly gets any touches in the post, or in the high post, to create his own offense.

Collins got 13.6 shots a game last year, making 7.6 of his FGs.  I would like to see his shot attempts increase to around 16 a game.  There were only 5 legit PFs and Cs who got at least 16 shots a game up.

( Embiid - Davis - KAT - Aldridge - Vucevic )

All of them averaged right at or over 21 ppg.   None of them shot over 52% FG.   All of them at least shot 79% FT.   And they collectively averaged around a 29% Usage Rate ( Collins was at 23.7% Usage last season ).

 

So personally, if Collins is going to make the leap to be an All-Star, I'd like to see him around 22 ppg - 10 rebounds this season.  And he doesn't need to become a prolific 3 point shooter to do this.  He just need touches in the right spot, and the offense to flow more through him, than all of that hot potato passing that LP wants to do in this offense.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth and obviously i didn't understand your point.  Above you mentioned that players think "why would i wast my prime years playing on a loser"  someone pointed out that we don't have any players in their prime years and you made a list that included Len and Parker.  

As you said I think we are talking about different things.  My only point is that not everyone thinks playing on a team that is rebuilding is bad.

That was a quote from Dennis Schröder.  Of course fringe players would play for anybody in their prime.  You know what...Never mind.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

That was a quote from Dennis Schröder.  Of course fringe players would play for anybody in their prime.  You know what...Never mind.

It's all good.  I get your point.   But Baze and Dennis while maybe not fringe players aren't players i was really worried about losing.   And the guys like Trae and Collins who are centerpieces will generally stay as long as they have the ball in their hands.   

Anyway, i think we're arguing about nothing here really.   We all want to win.  Rebuilding and talent development is necessary.   30 year old role players are definitely expendable on a rebuilding squad.

[Dejay]

21 hours ago, NBASupes said:

BudCox was one of the worst. They killed what Ferry was planning but Ferry should have gotten Giannis by ALL means like Senlenk did to get both Hunter and Reddish. 

I kept saying that draft was going to hurt because they couldn't get Giannis. They should've never let Larry Drew into the circle to get in on their original plans if they didn't want to keep him here...

[High5]

42 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

That was a quote from Dennis Schröder.  Of course fringe players would play for anybody in their prime.  You know what...Never mind.

If we’re quoting players, Collins was just quoted in an Athletic article saying that he wants to spend his whole career here. Check mate. (maybe someone else can post that section)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, High5 said:

If we’re quoting players, Collins was just quoted in an Athletic article saying that he wants to spend his whole career here. Check mate. (maybe someone else can post that section)

To Peoria's point though, even young players get tired of losing.  I don't think that's a scenario we have to worry about for a few years . . . but it WILL happen if the Hawks don't get a taste of the playoffs within these next 2 seasons.

We could easily end up with a Devin Booker situation on our hands, in which he's complaining about the organization's commitment to winning, and how he doesn't want to stay with the franchise if they didn't want to improve the team.  Of course, Devin took the money, which will quiet him for now.  But as he gets in his mid 20s, that itch to experience winning will override what he's making, and he'll try to force a trade before his contract is out.

Like I said, this is way too early to talk about scenarios like this concerning the Hawks.  My biggest fear is that we don't win, and we decide to hit the reset button in about 3 years.  And if we're not winning by then, the fans will turn on whomever is perceived to be the stars of the team, which are Trae and John.

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

To Peoria's point though, even young players get tired of losing.  I don't think that's a scenario we have to worry about for a few years . . . but it WILL happen if the Hawks don't get a taste of the playoffs within these next 2 seasons.

We could easily end up with a Devin Booker situation on our hands, in which he's complaining about the organization's commitment to winning, and how he doesn't want to stay with the franchise if they didn't want to improve the team.  Of course, Devin took the money, which will quiet him for now.  But as he gets in his mid 20s, that itch to experience winning will override what he's making, and he'll try to force a trade before his contract is out.

Like I said, this is way too early to talk about scenarios like this concerning the Hawks.  My biggest fear is that we don't win, and we decide to hit the reset button in about 3 years.  And if we're not winning by then, the fans will turn on whomever is perceived to be the stars of the team, which are Trae and John.

Thank you but these fans can't understand such a simple concept

[High5]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

To Peoria's point though, even young players get tired of losing.  I don't think that's a scenario we have to worry about for a few years . . . but it WILL happen if the Hawks don't get a taste of the playoffs within these next 2 seasons.

We could easily end up with a Devin Booker situation on our hands, in which he's complaining about the organization's commitment to winning, and how he doesn't want to stay with the franchise if they didn't want to improve the team.  Of course, Devin took the money, which will quiet him for now.  But as he gets in his mid 20s, that itch to experience winning will override what he's making, and he'll try to force a trade before his contract is out.

Like I said, this is way too early to talk about scenarios like this concerning the Hawks.  My biggest fear is that we don't win, and we decide to hit the reset button in about 3 years.  And if we're not winning by then, the fans will turn on whomever is perceived to be the stars of the team, which are Trae and John.

The Suns are a dumpster fire and they play on the West. I very much doubt we have the same struggles. If we do then that probably means our young talent wasn’t as good as we believed anyway.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

That was a quote from Dennis Schröder.  Of course fringe players would play for anybody in their prime.  You know what...Never mind.

That isn’t a quote.